Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 That was my point- Williams complete works is at least as CD worthy as Goldsmith's, if not more.That is undeniably true. Give me some proper full releases of the Indy scores, Hook, JP 1 & 2, the SW prequels, and the HP series already, dagnammit!- Marc, wants more Williams in stores; or better yet, in his collection. All at due time, boyos, patience. Handel MessiahSoloistAcademy of St. Martin in the FieldsSir Neville Marriner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 You say that about Goldsmith because you're so used to Williams, that you can not enjoy the rest.No,i used to enjoy the rest but composition styles have changed.Williams is the only `remnant`of the era I liked.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ocelot 508 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Yawn Yawn Yawn... SHUT UP both of you!!! (not Hector) Both Williams and Goldsmith are fantastic composers and there are going to be scores of theirs that someone doesn't like. Let's all just agree on that and have a merry bloody christmas alright?! hehe, uuummmm, oops, need my pills I think..... uuuummm... sorry...... uuuhhhh....Now to the more important subject, I haven't had sex in a few hours....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 That is what Williams politely says in interviews too,but there is contradiction in his actions.When he play his music in concert he says that he can play the music without the distraction of the film,which is the whole point of doing concerts,and in some other interviews he hints towards to snobbiness of some classical music people towards the acceptance of film scores.But remember, Williams usually only performs Main or End title cues in his concerts, or specially adapted suites.I think he hardly ever performs regular underscore during his concerts (i'd love to hear him conduct something like Desert Chase in concert)Recently Goldsmith has been performing for then just the main or end credits on his concerts, he's been composing suites consisting of a lot of underscore for concert performances (his outstanding Star Trek: TMP suite for instance)I much rather hear underscore then yet another performance of the Imperial March, or Theme from Star Trek TMP.K.M.Who doesn`t think Williams would play his music in concert if he didn`t think it could not stand on it`s own.Williams music stands brilliantly on it's own and classical elitists should contemplate that on the tree of Woe, whilst it's being set ablaze.Stefancos- who would wield the brand himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 The Quality of a score and of a film do more often than not have a direct connection. Just for my part- just about every single one of my favorite films- I like the score. Sydney Lumet's films are probably the only exception- as I think the waltz from Murder on The Orient Express is the only piece of music from his films that's worth listening to. Morlock- who's rather surprised at how fast this thread is getting replyed to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 Now to the more important subject, I haven't had sex in a few hours.......Are you ill?Stefancos- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Choke the chicken, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 But remember, Williams usually only performs Main or End title cues in his concerts, or specially adapted suites.I think he hardly ever performs regular underscore during his concerts (i'd love to hear him conduct something like Desert Chase in concert) Definatly- I loved that he played 'Indy's First Adventure' in the latest Evening Pops. Morlock- who's watched his new Evening Pops DVDs at least a dozen times each Morlcok2- who's having a very difficult time keeping up with this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 Definatly- I loved that he played 'Indy's First Adventure' in the latest Evening Pops. Yeah that's very cool.I have never been to a Williams concert, but I have read a lot of reviews, and mostly he plays End Credits on Main Titles, which are nice, but for me only serve as an intoduction of the actual score.There is so much more to Superman The Movie then just the March.Perhaps that's why classical elitists bash Williams, cause that is the only thing they ever hear, short, incomplete representations of vast and complex film scores.Pity the ignorant fools. Morlcok2- who's having a very difficult time keeping up with this threadRookie!Stefancos- who's on top of his thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 I missed that show. The stupid local PBS station aired the show exactly on Saturday, August 30. I was at the Hollywood Bowl when they aired that. Handel's Messiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Check the trading boards- there's a guy there who'll trade you for DVDs of the last two shows. I was really surprised- he sent actual DVDs, not VCDs! I think it's worth it just for the Indy 3 part and the Silent movie presentation, which was great. BTW, Did Williams write that music? since it's a great spoof/homage to those bouncy scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 BTW, Did Williams write that music? since it's a great spoof/homage to those bouncy scores.Yes, he wrote it.Neil - really excited about this Timeline news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 909 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 This is of course true- but we were discussing the release of albums, and FSM's biased towards Goldsmith. Argh Bias has nothng to do with, they release what they can, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 T-30 min untill..The Aunts from Hell. :micro: K.M.Removing the fuzz from his sweater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 No, FSM is biased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Given the choice they would release yet another forgotten 60's Goldsmith scored Western instead of ToD.k.m. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 Given the choice they would release yet another forgotten 60's Goldsmith scored Western instead of ToD.k.m.FSM does not have the financial means to release a score of that caliber.That's why they are stuck with Goldsmith Westerns, which are probably better then Williams 60's comedies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Probably true. Although, they did have a couple of great Williams releases too. Towering Inferno was great, as was the Paper Chase/ Conrack/ Poseidon Adventure. I can't get enough of the beautiful Americana of Conrack, which he later revisited in The River, one of the best forgotten JW scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 The River, one of the best forgotten JW scores.Yes, i've done my best to forget that one.Stefancos- who's CD of The River is gathering inches of dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Yes The River is a dust collector,along with Presumed Innocent,Sleepers,Rosewood,Amistad and Stepmom.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 IMO Amistad is all around great. Rosewood, Stepmom and Presumed Innocent all have great themes. Sleepers has a couple of good tracks (Hell's Kitchen for one) and to be fair- The River has one fantastic track- 'The Poney Ride', which is I think is beautifully pastoral, with that gentle guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 24, 2003 Author Share Posted December 24, 2003 Yes The River is a dust collector,along with Presumed Innocent,Sleepers,Rosewood,Amistad and Stepmom.K.M.And The Patriot, Minority Report, CoS, TPM and Angela's Ashes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Angela's Ashes has a great theme and a couple of good tracks. Minority Report I think is much better than it's given credit for. It may not be as thematic as most Williams work, but it has some fantastic cues. CoS has one great theme, two good ones and quite a few other good tracks. TPM I think is one of JW's absolute very best scores and the best SW score except of course TESB. The Patriot is rather negligable. AoTC- there's a sucky score, but it's to one of the worst movies ever made, so that's understandable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 TPM I think is one of JW's absolute very best scores and the best SW score except of course TESB.TPM is a missed opportunity as far as i'm concerned, good themes, but underused for the most part.It has a few brilliant parts, but 65% of it is merely OK.It's about 5 times better then that awful film though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I think it's absolutely perfect, and I like and regulaly listen to as much of it as I do TESB. I think it has fantastic themes, some Williams' best ever, and tons of great action/adventure music. and so much of it is left off the regular CD, which is why, despite it's faults, I've always loved the UE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 25, 2003 Author Share Posted December 25, 2003 I have the Elvisjones version and it's probably the best version out there and I still think it's a bit of a let down, yes the new themes are great, but they are used to sparingly. (DOTF comes if very late, Qui Gons's theme is hardly used, as is the Mother Theme)The only NEW theme that is used throughout the film with any regularity is Anakin's Theme, which is to slight to carry an entire score.And the themes from the original trilogy only seem to make cameo appearances, they aren't really a part of the score.Also, just compare The Sith Spacecraft and the Droid Battle with Tie Fighter Attack, it really does not compare.Still, Escape From Naboo is amazing though, the best Williams action cue since Visitor In San Diego.Stefancos- who wishes that cue was about 10 minutes longer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I don't know any track titles (I have the cds in my case, no tracks), but I think there is an abundence of riches. One thing I really love about it- there's so much great music that is totaly independant from the themes. And the themes are not overused- as often happens in movies, that the new themes are way too evident. Specificaly, my absolute favorite tracks(titles thanx to Filmtracks) On Cd 1: 3. Boarding the Federation Battleship 13. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan Rescue the Queen 14. Fighting the Guards 15. Escape from Naboo on CD 2: 1. Anakin is Free 2. Qui-Gon and Darth Maul Meet And although I basicaly love all of 15-30 out of those, the real standouts: 25. Qui-Gon, Darth Maul, and the Invisible Wall 26. The Gungans Retreat and the Queen Surrenders 27. The Death of Qui-Gon and the Surrender of the Gungans 28. The Tide Turns/The Death of Darth Maul 29. The Queen Confronts Nute and Rune 30. The Funeral of Qui-Gon 28 in particular- this is probably my favorite track. I love that build up, and the force theme at the perfect moment. also with 2- I love how music kicks into high gear when they cut to a wide shot of Qui Gon and Darth Maul. The themes are fantastic- Duel of The Fates is perfectly constructed, Anakin's theme is beautiful, evoking the correct feel, with the dark undertones. Qui Gon's theme is also great, and I like how he manages to pull out a brand new theme from the existing Star Wars type music, which is new, but fits in naturaly. And, also I am very glad at his use of the original themes- so sparingly, that first, they're not used as a crutch, and second, when they are used- they are super effective. I have a tremendus amount of respect for this score and for JW because of it. The score is probably the most anticipated score in the history of the Hollywood, and he managed to create a new, fresh, magnficent score, which almost entirely new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I forgot to mention the fantastic Droid Invasion. Another great theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,239 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 The River has some nice bits. Amistad has many very nice bits. Rosewood on the other hand is quite oustanding.Recently Goldsmith has been performing for then just the main or end credits on his concerts, he's been composing suites consisting of a lot of underscore for concert performances (his outstanding Star Trek: TMP suite for instance)Which was put together not by Goldsmith but by John Mauceri for a Hollywood Bowl concert - as you would know if you'd listened to those CDs well enough. Marian - wishing Varese Sarabande a very special happy Christmas! Das Rheingold (Richard Wagner) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Jesus Christ a thread this big in one day? And on X-Mas eve to bootThat tree of woe is going to get a lot of vistors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Jesus Christ a thread this big in one day? And on X-Mas eve to bootThat tree of woe is going to get a lot of vistorsSee what can happen when a major film score related item appears. This board can go crazy. Just wait until Williams has a new film score out.Neil - who thinks QMM, depsite the post count, is still a newbie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 IMO Amistad is all around great. Rosewood, Stepmom and Presumed Innocent all have great themes. Sleepers has a couple of good tracks (Hell's Kitchen for one) and to be fair- The River has one fantastic track- 'The Poney Ride', which is I think is beautifully pastoral, with that gentle guitar.I said the c.d.'s are dust collectors,but they have great tracks,so they are still worth owning.I usually take the tracks I like from those type of c.d.'s i don't listen to from beginning to end and put them on "hidden gems" type compilations,so they pop up from time to time.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 I think it's absolutely perfect, and I like and regulaly listen to as much of it as I do TESB. I think it has fantastic themes, some Williams' best ever, and tons of great action/adventure music. and so much of it is left off the regular CD, which is why, despite it's faults, I've always loved the UE.I agree, TPM is is one of those few long scores I like to listen from beginning to end,and I find something interesting in every track even if no themes are evoked,little details like the rising strings when a sand storm approaches, the choppy strings when they plan their escape to the queen's ship, the mystical feel to the music whan Anakin is looking up at the stars at night,or the swirly motif in the senate scene...Some beautiful passages like The Dinner Scene and Anakin is Free,great fanfares popping up here and there like when we glimpse Coruscant for the first time,when Anakin wins the race,when they land on Coruscant...It has a very descriptive storytelling quality to it,even the quiet parts.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Yes, TPM is great. I think it's a bit overshadowed by the major disappointment the film was to many. I prefer the UE to the original album, which is one of the worst in terms of compilation and sequencing. But I'd still like a proper release, with the music as it was written. The UE is all over the place, including tracked and looped music from earlier in the film.- Marc, who will NOT spend anything on an AotC UE for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 Neil - who thinks QMM, depsite the post count, is still a newbie.Yes. So, he's never been with us when a Williams CD is has come out. When was the last time that happed? Catch Me If You Can, I think one year ago, when the movie came out on Christmas Day.Merry Christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted December 25, 2003 Share Posted December 25, 2003 The score will probably cost more than the movie made at the box office. TIMELINE = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted January 10, 2004 Share Posted January 10, 2004 Wrong, absolutely wrong, the quality of a score has nothing to do with the quality of the film it was written for. Williams says he draws inspiration from the movies themselves, I think you'll have a hard time arguing that the film has nothing to do with the quality of the score with just a few examples of unusual exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 10, 2004 Author Share Posted January 10, 2004 Really, how often have we not have a great score coming from an average or bad film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 154 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Really, how often have we not have a great score coming from an average or bad film?I very much agree with you. You already mentioned Moonraker and Conan. Add ID4, and yes, perhaps even TPM and AOTC to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 AbsolutelySo, he's never been with us when a Williams CD is has come out. When was the last time that happed? Catch Me If You Can, I think one year ago, when the movie came out on Christmas Day. You don't know how long I've been watching the boards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 154 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I was browsing the FSM forum when I came across the Timeline thread. I have two questions.Why the hell do they react so furiously against any mention of bootlegs? (OOHH! "He said the word. Better talk about something else. How have you been lately? How are your children? Oh look! A bird in the sky!") I mean, of course I don't agree with taking away money from composers blablabla, but if a good and fine score or part of a score is withheld, I don't see a reason not to try to get it, albeit in mp3 format - as long as it isn't released officially. Oh I'll get the official score. And I'll try to obtain unreleased tracks as well, until it's released completely... Jeez, the whole place is almost going nuts when there's a question about a bootleg.Second, I picked up that the release of Timeline might very well be a shortened release of, say, 40 minutes. What a pity. I like a Deluxe edition to be quite complete - and indeed, let the fans decide what they omit on their bought version.Any additional thoughts?Greetings! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 154 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Oh, and what I also 'found out' there, is that it seems that Mr Thaxton is almost completely responsible for the decrease of isolated score tracks on DVDs... Somebody said something about "while nobody asked any questions about those tracks, Ford brought legal issues to the attention of the studios"...Thank you. That's very nice of you. (This is hardly an attack on the person of Mr Thaxton, I'm just expressing my regret about this.)In 99% of the time, when I'm browsing DVDs in a store, I look at the back of discs to find out about any possible isolated score. No score? What a pity. No buy neither. Really hope some studios read this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Really, how often have we not have a great score coming from an average or bad film?I very much agree with you. You already mentioned Moonraker and Conan. Add ID4, and yes, perhaps even TPM and AOTC to that. You may have it pretty often- but I still think that more often than not a bad movie will not have a good score. I think most of the Williams' scored movies are good, and have at elast matching scores. I think most of the Goldsmith scored movies are crap, and most have scores that are between servicable and bad. Although Goldsmith has scored very few great, and has produced several great scores. But most of those movies had at least something promising about them. I think the only really great Goldsmith movie with a score to match is Patton. L.A. confidential is probably his second best movie, but the score is average, with two very tracks. All of Williams' great movies have a score or at the very least a theme to match. I think the same thing goes for just about any other composer. Many exceptions, of course- but I find the better the movie, the better the score. I think that works especialy well with sequals- I think each Star Wars, Indiana Jones, Home Alone, Die Hard, Batman, Mummy movie has a score to reflect it's place in the franchise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 since its a score by Jerry Goldsmith, who has lost it, it will be bad.Joe, who likes Jerry BC, and who doesn't like Jerry AC. before chemo, after chemo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 It's a very good score. I don't think he's lost it musically- he just picks shitty movies. Sum of All Fears had some good parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 Joe, who likes Jerry BC, and who doesn't like Jerry AC. before chemo, after chemo.Oh please, you were bitching and moaning about Goldsmith long before he had cancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 only about him using his original series themes for Next Generation Characters.We know that Jerry's true source of inspiration was that ugly ponytail, and when it was lost due to the chemo, so was his musical voice. Like Samson, his strenght was gone with his hair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 Tasteless Joe. Real tasteless.Neil - who knows Goldsmith hasn't lost a thing...except the pony tail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I gotta agree with Neil Joe, please dont bring a man's plight into a score discussion. Least of all when it involves a potentially terminal illness like cancer. IMO that whole predicament has nothing to do with affecting the overall quality of Jerry Goldsmith's music. The only thing it did was force him to diminish his workload. Which happens with composers his age naturally anyway. As for the trend of Jerry's music quality gradually dissipating as time goes on. I would say it has somewhat. However, that is the case with everyone. Pretty much all composers and even filmakers have their "peak" times. That doesn't mean they never put out good work anymore, it just means that they were at their pinnacle at that moment. I think people come down a little too hard on composers/filmakers when they have gone beyond the apogee of their careers making comments lmuch like Joe's above implying that they are lost the overwhelming amount of their ability. However, I feel this is unfair. No one can maintain such momentum forever. As long as the artist can still properly demonstrate they have the ability to churn out solid work still (and I feel Jerry hass shown himself still more than capable in this regard then I don't feel the "lost it" comments are justified. I mean hell! Even a cinematic genius like Hitchcock showed signs of his filmaking prowess slipping later in his life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 I don't think Goldsmith has lost anything- he just does crappy movies!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now