#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Simple yes or no anwser, no exuses about it being OK for bootlegs but not for legite music, or downloading a CD now and buying it later...etc...etc.According to your own system of values, is downloading of music from a site, P2P server or via private messenger, thereby depriving the record company and performing artist/composer of money wrong.Stefancos- who votes NO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,813 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Why didn't you post a poll? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,813 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Well i close my mouth. I saw it (the poll) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I voted no, but i'd like to add it is if you do it to avoid buying the cd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melange 446 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I wont vote on this because its not as simple as yes or no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Yes, but that is what posting on a poll topic is for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I'm sure you meant "Is downloading copyrighted music wrong?"Well, it is illegal.But does illegal mean wrong? In my opinion, right and wrong are highly subjective concepts, and they're often based on everyone's moral convictions. That's what I think Stefancos wants us to discuss.A futile debate, IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 Ricard is right, i'm specifically interested in if YOu find it wrong to download MP3's, not if they it is an illigal act.And Ricard, i have found that most discussions are futile.Stefancos- who might download The Summ Of All Fears, cause he doean't wanna wait untill autumn to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Is it illegal though? Aren't they still arguing over the digital protection act? (or whatever it is) And the FBI aren't running after people running places that offer copyrighted music on mp3's. The legal system doesn't seem to have decided yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 And Ricard, i have found that most discussions are futile.I agree :lookaround: LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Is it illegal though? Aren't they still arguing over the digital protection act? (or whatever it is) And the FBI aren't running after people running places that offer copyrighted music on mp3's. The legal system doesn't seem to have decided yet.Right. That's why people still can download all those copyrighted CDs from Audiogalaxy LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Right, but that is decided by a judge and not by some act So I still don't think they have really overall decided if it's illegal or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Right, but that is decided by a judge and not by some act So I still don't think they have really overall decided if it's illegal or notYou're right. They still have to decide whether downloading copyrighted material is illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Yes, that digital act thingy, remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 Yes, that digital act thingy, remember Oh yeah, right... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 The answer to the question is more complex than yes or no.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 No it isn't, you either think it is right or wrong.How can people be against downloading legit CD's but think downloading bootlegs is OK, while bootlegs themselves are illigal.In my mind there really isn't much of a difference, you are getting music in such a way that the composer is denied financial compensation.That's why I think Chrusher is being extremely hypocritical when he bashes Morn for downloading music, while he himself is making bootlegs And selling them to others (he might not make money from it, but it's still illigal)Personally, i know and accept that downloading music is against the law, yet personally i don't have a problem with it....i do not consider it a REAL crime. (If Chrusher reads this he will offcourse use this sentence to draw another parralell between downloading music and the treatment of the Jews in WWII...please don't bother Chris, let's keep it on the topic of MP3's)Stefancos- who would DL The Summ Of All Fears right now, if his connection allowed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 No, it isn't simple, because you discounted my idea of previewing the music before I buy it.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 That is also illigal.I did not discount it, i simply did not add it as an option in the poll.Stefancos- who wonders what Harry really thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 What do I really think?I think it's wrong for people to download the music and cheat their favorite artist who they can't get enough of but refuse to support them by buying the cd when they can.However, in Morn's case, I don't see why he can't get a job to get money to buy the cds.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 188 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I watched Spider-Man on Thursday, loved the film, loved the music, and wanted to order it from amazon.de. D'Oh. Sony hasn't released it in Europe yet. Their problem. I downloaded it then.-Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 Ok, but you say that you on occasion download tracks from a CD to sample them, to see if you like them or not.Ignoring the fact that this is illigal, what if you would have downloaded The Summ Of All fears or Fellowship Of The Ring, listened to the MP3's, but decided you did not like them.Would you still buy the CD's?Probably not, therefore you have already deprived the composer of money.Is this right, or wrong?Stefancos- who likes this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I wouldn't have downloaded either of them to begin with. I didn't know if I was going to like either score, but I didn't download them, I went out and bought them.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 I know you did, but just for the sake of this argument.Stefancos- cornering his Padawan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 For the sake of the argument, I am not saying anything.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 Why not, it's a valid question.Stefancos- :cry: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 22, 2002 Share Posted June 22, 2002 I wouldn't have downloaded the whole score anyway. If I did download anything, it would be one or two tracks.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 22, 2002 Author Share Posted June 22, 2002 It would still be against the law, you understand that, do you?Stefancos- who wants Harry to be clear on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Well so is speeding.~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 There is no simple yes or no answer on this one. In fact, there are so many variants on this issue that the question and answer cannot make a logical answer. I am taking the poll at face value and voted yes because it is morally wrong to take something that is owned by someone else for nothing, and also illegal (although rarely if ever enforced).A poll can't decide one way or the other. If only it were that simple. A different person's morals will get different answers, and right and wrong can never truly be decided my the majority, because sometimes (not a rule, but a possibility) the minority may be in the right. Downloading copyrighted material is illegal and should be. You are stealing the intellectual rights of the artists and producers of the music. What the penalty should be? Who knows. Who really cares, rarely if ever will it get enforced. We've all downloaded music. Some more than others. Myself, I've only downloaded some rare and unreleased tracks here and there. Sampling is something to see whether or not you like it I don't have a problem with either. I just think that ripping entire albums and building massive collections for nothing is just going too far. To reduce this problem, the music industry should sell mp3s and/or make legal online music trading grounds. Pay a yearly tax for access or something.Then, there are people like me who wants the best possible sound quality avaiable, and likes owning an official album anyways, so I'm only happy with an mp3 as a temorary alternative until I can get a CD (or something better like a DVD-A or better if I have the equipment). For artists that I like (like that guy who this site is ased on) I buy every official album. Although it is illegal, I personally justify trading bootlegs until the music is officially and legally released, where I'll buy a copy. Sometimes two. Sometimes three. Or, with AOTC's OST CD, sometimes four! LOL I'll trade a bootleg CDR of unreleased music for a pressed CD, sometimes even if it's a double with a variation or something. It's my way of paying Williams back, I guess. So basically, in hindsight... the issue really is simple. Don't steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 There is no simple yes or no answer on this one. In fact, there are so many variants on this issue that the question and answer cannot make a logical answer. I am taking the poll at face value and voted yes because it is morally wrong to take something that is owned by someone else for nothing, and also illegal (although rarely if ever enforced).A poll can't decide one way or the other. If only it were that simple. A different person's morals will get different answers, and right and wrong can never truly be decided my the majority, because sometimes (not a rule, but a possibility) the minority may be in the right. But this is a democracy and the majority rules if right or wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted June 23, 2002 Author Share Posted June 23, 2002 There is no simple yes or no answer on this one. A poll can't decide one way or the other. If only it were that simple. Uncharactersisic responses for a man who claims to believe in an ultimate right or wrong. Thank you for your contribution.Stefancos- who wonders what Williams thinks of this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetePan 163 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 As long as Williams continues to write so many scores each year, he hardly has any time to spend all his millions of dollars, so I think he can live with it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Chrusher -- you had some very good points, and I totally agree with you. Well said!~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross 1 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 what if you would have downloaded The Summ Of All fears or Fellowship Of The Ring, listened to the MP3's, but decided you did not like them.Would you still buy the CD's?Probably not, therefore you have already deprived the composer of money.Not quite. Because you don't make him LOOSE money (because you wouldn't buy the cd anyways). However if you substitute the actual CD with a CD-R, THEN it's wrong.Downloading MP3's is right as long as you don't make the composer loose money. As long as it's money he wouldn't get anyways.Is it right to deprive you of the chance of previewing music when CD's go up ?20? Who'd be depriving whom of money here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Well said Ross Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 I agree, Ross. Good point. I call that "sampling" or "previewing". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 There is no simple yes or no answer on this one. A poll can't decide one way or the other. If only it were that simple. Uncharactersisic responses for a man who claims to believe in an ultimate right or wrong. Thank you for your contribution.Stefancos- who wonders what Williams thinks of this issue.Read the whole post. It's a complex issue.For instance, if you go to a grocery store and someone is handing out free samples of sandwiches or cheese and crackers or pizza or something, it isn't stealing to sample them.It is stealing to sit down in the store, eat everything on the shelves and leave without paying a cent.And Williams probably doesn't care about sampling, but probably doesn't like people downloading entire albums that are on sale in your local CD store. Most musicians probably feel that way.Since I'm an artist, I wouldn't have a problem with showing off samples of my art, but I'd want someone to pay for a comic book's worth of it. That's how artists make money (and Lord knows most of us don't make very much :oops: ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Except, unlike the supermarket example, it doesn't cost him anything for people to download an entire album. And remember this vital thing Ross said "Downloading MP3's is right as long as you don't make the composer loose money. As long as it's money he wouldn't get anyways." So, that means it's ok to download a whole album but not if you do it to avoid getting the cd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter 0 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Well don't you avoid getting the cd because you can't afford it? Is that not avoiding buying it?~Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Except' date=' unlike the supermarket example, it doesn't cost him anything for people to download an entire album. And remember this vital thing Ross said "Downloading MP3's is right as long as you don't make the composer loose money.As long as it's money he wouldn't get anyways." [/quote']---You are still stealing their intellectual property. To download record, and own a copy of it. I'm not saying that you should be arrested or anything, but say, pay for a CD of what you recorded.So, that means it's ok to download a whole album but not if you do it to avoid getting the cd ---Like you do all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamesyboy 3 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Tough issue. I've done some downloading, primarily out-of-print stuff or bootleg stuff. Either way, the composer is not loosing or making money. If the album is out-of-print, nobody can buy it anyway so no money is transacting, so the composer is not making anything. Bootleg stuff...the composer is not making money off this to begin with, so nothing is being taken from the composer when being downloaded. Simple solution..release the friggin' CD's then keep them in print. Everybody wins.If I do find that out-of-print disc used somewhere (by the way, the composers DO NOT get royalties from these sales..hmmmmm...is buying/selling used CD's wrong then???) .I DO buy it. If that bootleg disc is officially released...I DO buy it.Downloading in-print CD's you can find anywhere is wrong.Jamesyboy - who basically hangs out at used CD stores Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetePan 163 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 I will be honest to tell you that I downloaded Minority Report at my computer and I'm listening to it too. But as soon as the album comes available here, I will buy it. Till then, I simply can't stand it that you talk about this score, I read positive reviews and I have to wait for another 2 months or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris ChrusherComix 46 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Tough issue. I've done some downloading, primarily out-of-print stuff or bootleg stuff. Either way, the composer is not loosing or making money. If the album is out-of-print, nobody can buy it anyway so no money is transacting, so the composer is not making anything. Bootleg stuff...the composer is not making money off this to begin with, so nothing is being taken from the composer when being downloaded. Simple solution..release the friggin' CD's then keep them in print. Everybody wins.If I do find that out-of-print disc used somewhere (by the way, the composers DO NOT get royalties from these sales..hmmmmm...is buying/selling used CD's wrong then???) .I DO buy it. If that bootleg disc is officially released...I DO buy it.Downloading in-print CD's you can find anywhere is wrong.Jamesyboy - who basically hangs out at used CD storesI agree completely.Hmmm... you brought up a great point that I have also thought of in the past. People sell used CDs. Why is that legal?Now I LOVE that because that is how I get most of my older and OOP albums.I suppose that if someone paid for it once, then the original copy can still be sold because the artists got paid. But not copied. Ah... we found loopholes... :? buy a CD, copy yourself a CDR and sell the original! There you go Morn! A semi-legal way to rip off the artists whose music you enjoy! -Chris, Who does hear Ludlow's Demise in Anderton's Escape... AND LOVES IT!!!! WAHOO! ROTFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PetePan 163 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Ah... we found loopholes... :? buy a CD, copy yourself a CDR and sell the original! There you go Morn! A semi-legal way to rip off the artists whose music you enjoy! But the one how buys your second hand CD doesn't pay anything to the composer, so there you go again.And you are stuck up with all CD-R with bad color scans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Well don't you avoid getting the cd because you can't afford it? Is that not avoiding buying it?~HarryNo, it's not being *able* to buy it. It's not choosing not to buy it to save money by getting the mp3's instead. There is a huge difference. Cd's are the first thing I spend money on ---You are still stealing their intellectual property. To download record, and own a copy of it. I'm not saying that you should be arrested or anything, but say, pay for a CD of what you recorded. But the point is, I couldn't buy it anyway, so to quote Ross "Downloading MP3's is right as long as you don't make the composer loose money".Steal = bad? No, the results of stealing are the bad part. Stealing = making someone lose something = bad. I am not making anyone loose anything, therefore it is stealing but is not bad. Like you do all the time.That is false, see my reply to Potter.Morn - Who thinks it should be thou shall not take things from others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybobab 0 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 I think it is illegal. What is the freakin diff. between copying a CD and giving it to a friend, and putting it on your computer for someone to download??? Or Copying a program and giving it to a friend, and putting it up for download???Billybobab--Who has downloaded music before... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Ohh who knows. Lawyers are still arguing over if it is allowed by the digital protection act. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Is it illegal though? Aren't they still arguing over the digital protection act? (or whatever it is) And the FBI aren't running after people running places that offer copyrighted music on mp3's. The legal system doesn't seem to have decided yet.Right. That's why people still can download all those copyrighted CDs from Audiogalaxy LOLAudiogalaxy no longer works. Nothing is available. They must have been shut down.-Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 They have been sued! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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