Recording Quality/Balance "Too Perfect" Nowadays?

[Bowie 45]

I may well be the only person who's ever been stupid enough to think this, but has anyone else ever considered that a fair-sized contributing factor to the decline in quality (or, rather, decline in overall acclaim and Golden Era status) of Williams' compositions, might be the volume, or warmth of the recordings, for both album and in-film?

To me, it's like over the years, he's refined his recording prowess to the point where the music can (a LOT of the time) become this whitewash of impersonal, bland sounds that match each other so well they're approaching indistinguishable, and dull.

I love listening to The Empire Strikes Back, and it's a perfect example of really mediocre sound quality, but the instruments are alive for some reason. I like to compare it to Jurassic Park. I can't help but imagine if that exact film was released in 1980 and had the same hissy recording quality and close, separated balance as TESB, the quality of the former would skyrocket, more because back then the brass was loud and nearly tinny, the woodwinds were piercing and unrestrained, the strings thin yet plentiful, the percussion... well, there wasn't as much back then... but the cymbals and snare hit you in the face with fewer subtle rolls and more loud slams.

Again, with Sorcerer's Stone... Seven Years in Tibet... Saving Private Ryan... The Phantom Menace... most films since Hook... did they just come at the wrong time and place technology-wise, or are they genuinely and thoroughly inferior compositions?

Am I wrong, or is Williams' (and his recording engineers') skill at "perfecting" compositions on a recording a curse more than a blessing, and partially to blame for the often-maligned journey into His supposed Silver Age?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You seem to shy away from the "modern" Williams scores that have been very poorly recorded.

But I honestly do not think you can blame the sound recorder or engineer for a "less then stellar" Williams score.

[orrakul 0]

People said the same sort of thing when CDs came out in the early 80's; there were people who LOVED the pops and hisses of vinyl albums. I don't think that you can record music too well. JW's music is great no matter how it's recorded.

[Greg1138 3]

Not entirely sure I agree with you, hoever there is something very special about the actual sound and quality of the recording of the original Star Wars score that is sorely missed after it has been tinkered with so often.....

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

I think the most perfectly recorded soundtrack I've ever heard might be Star Trek V. I know "Life is a Dream" is certainly the best end title...with Insurrection coming in a close 2nd.

Actually, I prefer to listen to Close Encounters and Star Wars on LP. I just bought Superman on vinyl under a year ago, so I don't really know what I think of that. I'm still trippin on listening to a score from a movie I grew up on on a record player--like when I was little--but I'm not a kid; I'm 21. It's different when you've heard it on LP for 21 years.

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

Sound recording quality in the 70s was much better than those SW SEs might make you believe.

Marian - who once again suggests CE3K for comparison.

Myst III: Exile (Jack Wall)

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

CE3K, Star Trek: TPM, Moonraker, Damien: The Omen II, The Black Hole there are countless examples of really good 70's recordings.

Most, however are not of John Williams scores.

[Erik Woods 555]

Two of THE best sounding film scores ever recorded ARE John Williams scores...

E.T. and INDIANA JONES AND THE TEMPLE OF DOOM. Both were engineered or co-engineered by Lyle Burbridge. I would also like to point you to another Burbridge recorded score THE LAST STARFIGHTER by Craig Safan. Stellar recordings.

-Erik-

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

E.T. is probably the best sounding Williams score of the 1980's and i'm sure the GREAT Bruce Botnick had something to do with it.

TOD has great sound too.

[A24 4,338]

E.T. is probably the best sounding Williams score of the 1980's and i'm sure the GREAT Bruce Botnick had something to do with it.

It's worldwide regarded as being an "early digital recording". That's not very good, Stefancos. It means that the digital process produced side effects causing the recoring to be on the brittle side. I'm pretty sure that this brittleness is why you're so fond of it, knowing your taste and all.

- Or you need some decent speakers.

- Or your ears are damaged.

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Alex Cremers

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You know very well that my hearing is slightly less then stellar Alex.

No reason to 'get' me on that one.

E.T. sounds far better then earlier Williams scores like Star wars, Superman, TESB or the awfull sounding Dracula.

[A24 4,338]

Well, the LPs, at least sound more natural than E.T. (normal version) and that's why you don't like 'm. E.T. sounds downright glassy and any bloke with a revealing system will tell you that. This just proves that you have a distorted idea of how an orchestra should sound like.

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Alex Cremers

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Since when is an abundance of tape hiss "natural"?

I'm sorry, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

[A24 4,338]

Since when is an abundance of tape hiss "natural"?

I'm sorry, you clearly have no clue what you are talking about.

Tape hiss, stefancos? Please elaborate.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Even listened to the Dracula CD?

Sounds like the LSO was recording in Abbey Road and the microphones were set up in the Sony scoring stage.

Both releases of Superman sound harsh, as do SW and TESB (i'm no big fan of Tomlinson).

[A24 4,338]

Even listened to the Dracula CD?

Sounds like the LSO was recording in Abbey Road and the microphones were set up in the Sony scoring stage.

Both releases of Superman sound harsh, as do SW and TESB (i'm no big fan of Tomlinson).

I think SW, ESB, Raiders sound quite natural (original LP versions).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think the current CD actually improves upon the SW LP.

But that's still not saying much.

BTW Alex I've heard the LSO performing music from Star wars in concert.

And it did not sound like the Star Wars LP.

Can you say the same thing?

[A24 4,338]

BTW Alex I've heard the LSO performing music from Star wars in concert.

Can you say the same thing?

Yes, I can.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So you agree with me?

[Marian Schedenig 8,198]

It's worldwide regarded as being an "early digital recording".

STTMP is an early digital recording as well (one of the very first digitally recorded film scores), yet it sounds very good. Far better than most classical recordings I've heard from the first half of the 80's, in fact.

Both releases of Superman sound harsh, as do SW and TESB

Agreed. I believe it to be a problem with remastering though, as far as I remember (it's been a while) the SW scores sound much better in the movies.

(i'm no big fan of Tomlinson).

Listen to Flesh+Blood. Aside from some strong hiss on some cues (not on all though, so again I'd guess it's a problem with storage or remastering), it sounds excellent. Same (sans the hiss) goes for Night Crossing.

Marian - mentioning Rosewood as one of the best-sounding Williams scores (and it's a recent one, too).

[A24 4,338]

So you agree with me?

Not really, even though the LP sounds a little dark, to me it still sounds more like hearing the LSO "live" than anything else (I don't know about the Sony). The LP sounds warm, especially the strings sound really beautiful. The old CD of the LP sounds a bit too harsh (The mids don't breath, the air is gone and so the beautiful strings). The 'Special Editions' and that 'Trilogy box' probably sound the most like the real soundtrack from the film. However, I find that sound very rude and too bright, like they tried to revived it to much during remastering. It's painful. I never heard an orchestra sound like that in my life, not live, not on any recording. It's EQ'd too hot.

I am not happy with any of the Star Wars (first film) recordings. I want the whole score to be rerecorded. I am a tremendously big fan of the score. I have lesser problem with the original ESB or ROTJ CDs. And while the playing is a little mechanic at times, I also like the sound of the Skywalker version.

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Alex Cremers

[A24 4,338]

It's worldwide regarded as being an "early digital recording".

STTMP is an early digital recording as well (one of the very first digitally recorded film scores), yet it sounds very good. Far better than most classical recordings I've heard from the first half of the 80's, in fact.

Good, some people knew what they were doing, I guess.

[Lurker 5]

TMP was edited digitally. The music was recorded 24 track analog. Some album cues were intended to be recorded digitally, but it seems that idea was abandoned at some point.

Which is just another reason why this brilliant score should be re-mixed and re-mastered into DSD and released on SA-CD, complete!

Neil

[Todd 30]

I'm not as much of an audiophile as I'd like to be....but what is the reason for some of the really bad hiss? Like AOTC for example...It makes my ears bleed to listen to that thing...

[hoby12 0]

The strings sound like poop in this last star wars album. They are so deep in the mix.

[Eplicon 53]

I prefer Williams's older recordings. The rougher sound to me actually sounds more natural than the way-too-clean, crisp sounds of digital recordings, e.g., the original trilogy over the prequels. I know for the longest time, Williams still liked mastering his albums via the AAD process; I'm not sure if that's still the case. Record companies for the most part abandoned the AAD/ADD/DDD labeling because it confused consumers.

Rosewood is a very good example of a recording done right.

[Bowie 45]

Thanks Eplicon. Someone at least half-agrees with me for the first time this week.

[dooku77 0]

1st time poster long time reader

This is a long deserved and debated post. I've been noticing this especially with rots while listening to it since apr 8 and as of may 3rd listening to the fully bit rated wavs that rots and aotc or especially hard on the ears I've had to turn the treble down almost completely on my car stereo because of high trumpet shrieking and overly loud choir, don't get me wrong I love these scores, but I've noticed good ol' JW doing this since A.I. I can only deduce this is done to cut through Ben"editing pro" Burtt's sound fx. Gotta love him for suggesting the loss of the arena and conveyor belt tracks. anyhoo i've really been enjoying everyone's posts epsecially stewdog and master stefancos. Is that picard's new signal to engage warp?

[Bowie 45]

Well I just did an experiment. Applied a "warm, medium concert hall" full-reverb (then amplified it by 4.7db or so to create a subtle background white noise and since the volume shrinks), using CoolEdit Pro, to a really dull Attack of the Clones piece (Return to Tatooine) and found it much more enjoyable. Listened to it the whole way through with interest. It really does seem like an extension of the original trilogy, especially when all the original themes come in.

Even Duel of the Fates sound deliciously antique and original-trilogy-esque with the same mode applied. I think I was onto something here, but I guess it's for my own benefit.

[THEfranz_conrad 0]

Bowie - I'd be interested in hearing an mp3 of what you've done with the Return to Tatooine cue. Do you have a YOUSENDIT.com link you could PM me?

[Jeshopk 8]

Well I just did an experiment. Applied a "warm, medium concert hall" full-reverb (then amplified it by 4.7db or so to create a subtle background white noise and since the volume shrinks), using CoolEdit Pro, to a really dull Attack of the Clones piece (Return to Tatooine) and found it much more enjoyable. Listened to it the whole way through with interest. It really does seem like an extension of the original trilogy, especially when all the original themes come in.  

Even Duel of the Fates sound deliciously antique and original-trilogy-esque with the same mode applied. I think I was onto something here, but I guess it's for my own benefit.

Yep, I've done that to ROTS too. Sounds much more OT now. I can send you my settings if you like.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But ROTS sounds better then the OT scores?????

[Bowie 45]

Well I just did an experiment. Applied a "warm, medium concert hall" full-reverb (then amplified it by 4.7db or so to create a subtle background white noise and since the volume shrinks), using CoolEdit Pro...

Yep, I've done that to ROTS too. Sounds much more OT now. I can send you my settings if you like.

Yes what settings do you use? (bowiescores@hotmail.com or PM if you want)

[John Crichton 4]

But ROTS sounds better then the OT scores?????

It definately sounds better than Episode II. Between this, The Terminal, and PoA Murphy has a bit of a winning streak going. Hope it lasts.

[THEfranz_conrad 0]

Listened to your 'Return to Tatooine' track Bowie. It's fascinating to hear the same cue again with different dynamics. The echo is a tad obvious, but otherwise, really interesting work. Keep it up.