JW themes that didn't work.

[HPFAN_2 0]

What were the themes to you that didn't work. They didn't match the characters or movie they were based on. There aren't many but i have to go with Dobby's Theme. It's great music, but Dobby to me is nothing like that.

[King Mark 3,631]

I think Dobby's Theme is perfect,for the little we hear of it in the film

Personally I don't think the Patriot main theme works well in the final battle sequence.

K.M.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Jaws.

~Sturgis

[Damo 0]

I dont really hear Dobby's Theme in the film.

[Morlock 11]

Fawkes' theme. But that is totaly the failing of the filmmakers, JW did his best. Can't think of any others.

[A24 4,345]

Like people in theaters laughing with the music because it didn't work? I'm sure most would say Jaws. The scene with the barrels was scored in a very boyish adventure way, almost whimsical. I like it (because I dig the music) but it's surprisingly different. If Jaws was made today, the scene would be scored a bit more tense. I'm glad Jaws was made in the Seventies.

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Alex Cremers

[Morlock 11]

People laughing at that? I can't imagine it. But I guess the movie is so engrained in me with all it's elements, I can't really imagine any part of it not fitting in perfectly.

[King Mark 3,631]

Like people in theaters laughing with the music because it didn't work? I'm sure most would say Jaws. The scene with the barrels was scored in a very boyish adventure way, almost whimsical. I like it (because I dig the music) but it's surprisingly different. If Jaws was made today, the scene would be scored a bit more tense. I'm glad Jaws was made in the Seventies.

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Alex Cremers

Yes,the General Grevious drums would make another appearence if Williams had to score this scene now.

K.M.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I'd like to say Fawkes, form the point of view that it was far, far better than Fawkes in the film. But it suits the character we read in the books like a glove. At least it seems to improve the phoenix in the film somewhat...

The same would go for the curiously titled "Hedwig's Theme". Like Fawkes, it's a brilliant piece of music, but doesn't really match the label. Everyone knows it as just "the Harry Potter theme", as soon as they heard it.

A really minor issue I have is with Princess Leia's theme. While one of my favourite themes of all time, doesn't really suit the character past her appearance. She's far more sassy and independent than the music implies. It's not quite a theme, but Aunt Marge's Waltz is a bit out of place. I half expected Harry to throw a creap pie in someone's face. It would seem appropriate.

The music I mentioned is brilliant, but occasionally doesn't suit the character or sequence it's scoring. That's all.

[A24 4,345]

Are the tender moments of Princess Leia 's Theme even used for her? I remember the no holds barred rendition when Ben dies (sorry for the spoiler).

[Josh500 1,615]

I think Dobby's Theme is perfect,for the little we hear of it in the film

Personally I don't think the Patriot main theme works well in the final battle sequence.

K.M.

I agree. I love Dobby's Theme. :roll:

[Morlock 11]

I think it's a fine theme, fits the character like a glove (a well fitting glove, that is). Like all the CoS themes. Except for the actual Chamber of Secrets theme that's used when they're talking about it in hushed tones (the most important unreleased music from the movie, IMO), none of the themes are really perfect fits to the film. Conceptually, they all fits their characters perfectly, but not as ion the film. I really think that JW didn't see the movie before he wrote those themes. I love all the CoS themes except for the Spider one (I even like Lockart's theme, when it's used in 'The Dueling Room'). That's the best reason for JW to come back to the series- he's set up over a dozen themes for different people and places. I feel he used the first two movies to set them up and get them all out of the way, setting the stage for the endless referencing of them in the subsequent films. I feel, at this point, that there's no way JW could do a less than great Potter score.

[Damo 0]

(I even like Lockart's theme, when it's used in 'The Dueling Room').

Same here, I like that one as well.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

Jaws.

. . . was a joke; the main theme is the most suiting theme ever.

Anyways, I agree about Leia's theme.

~Sturgis

[Adam 1]

The concert version of Leia’s theme is incredible and I’m glad he wrote it but nothing about her character builds to that kind of drama. The theme is used mostly in the first half of the movie and kind of reflects the aura around her that is projected through the other characters. So the theme makes more sense if I think of it as capturing some of the romanticism of the picture that is seen through her character. The full-blown concert arrangment actually has more logic after the way RotS ends which was a nice coincidence since he surely didn’t plan that initially.

- Adam

[SturgisPodmore 0]

The theme is used mostly in the first half of the movie and kind of reflects the aura around her that is projected through the other characters.

Like Luke's impression from the miniscule blue lines of a hologram that "She's beautiful!"

~Sturgis

[John Crichton 4]

I also remember reading somewhere about how Leia's Theme didn't fit with the "cold" performance by Carrie Fisher. A valid criticism IMO, though I like the theme.

As far as themes that don't work, of course there's my old pet peeve: the "Mystery of the Chamber" theme in CoS, aka the Stone theme. I think all the other new themes in the film work good. Williams must've written Fawkes' theme to the book, not that piece of anamatronic crap that was in the film.

[Henry B 50]

The theme is used mostly in the first half of the movie and kind of reflects the aura around her that is projected through the other characters.

Interesting idea there. And it's supported by the rendition of Leia's theme in the end credits, counterpuntal to the Rebel fanfare to represent Leia's, eh, real character.

[Adam 1]

In response to Sturgis : Yeah, that's a good example of what I'm thinking of. The theme is usually only heard in the context of something in the romanticism of either the direction or the way others are reacting to her.

[orrakul 0]

I can't think of any bad themes off the top off my head; there are certainly cues/themes that I dont care for, but they work for the film (e.g. the knight bus music on POA).

John Williams seems to pick themes that are just perfect. For example, I think Hedwig's theme is excellent - I consider this to be more the main theme of the HP movies - it captures the feeling of the first book so well!

[A24 4,345]

I can't think of any bad themes off the top off my head; there are certainly cues/themes that I dont care for, but they work for the film (e.g. the knight bus music on POA).

I guess you don't have many artistic genes floating around in that body of yours, am I right?

[Henry B 50]

I can't think of any bad themes off the top off my head; there are certainly cues/themes that I dont care for, but they work for the film (e.g. the knight bus music on POA).

I guess you don't have many artistic genes floating around in that body of yours, am I right?

It's just a matter of coming to terms with your own opinions. I use to say Williams was flawless, then I started to admit where I thought he had gone wrong (e.g. The Patriot). There's certainly no need to put down orrakul's... genes. :?

[A24 4,345]

There's certainly no need to put down orrakul's... genes. :?

I think it is (not that there's something wrong with it).

[King Mark 3,631]

I  CoS  I really think that JW didn't see the movie before he wrote those themes.

I also think that about CoS.Maybe he also wrote some cues according to how it play out in the book.The score seems very detatched from the film.

K.M.

[orrakul 0]

I can't think of any bad themes off the top off my head; there are certainly cues/themes that I dont care for, but they work for the film (e.g. the knight bus music on POA).

I guess you don't have many artistic genes floating around in that body of yours, am I right?

I dont know if I have any artistic genes. Why don't you be the judge? I've formally studied piano and viola, and before my current career, I attended film school. After graduating from film school, I worked in the film industry.

It's fine that you like the Knight Bus cue - I don't care for it (except as it fits in the film) - it's an interesting cue, but I would rather listen to Buckbeak's theme on the POA score than the Knight Bus cue. Isn't it childish of you to assume that someone isn't artistic just because they don't share your tastes? John Williams is my favourite composer, and I've been buying his soundtracks since 1977 - I would say that this demonstrates my good taste (I just don't automatically love everything he's written).

Oh, by the way, one of the things that I learned in my years in the fine arts was that I should know what I like, and that I should respect the artistic choices of others. I don't know whether you have any artistic credentials, or whether you are just a poser, but your comment suggests a closed-mindedness that is the antithesis of the artists that I have known and respected...

[David Vincent 8]

Aunt Marge Waltz.

It is a great piece, I really love it but I think the scene is not great enough to match the music.

Am I wrong but, didn't Spielberg change the montage of the final scene of E.T. to perfectly match the music ?

[A24 4,345]

I dont know if I have any artistic genes. Why don't you be the judge? I've formally studied piano and viola, and before my current career, I attended film school (where I won various awards). After graduating from film school (with honours), I worked in the film industry.  

It's fine that you like the Knight Bus cue - I don't care for it (except as it fits in the film) - it's an interesting cue, but I would rather listen to Buckbeak's theme on the POA score than the Knight Bus cue. Isn't it childish of you to assume that someone isn't artistic just because they don't share your tastes? John Williams is my favourite composer, and I've been buying his soundtracks since 1977 - I would say that this demonstrates my good taste (I just don't automatically love everything he's written).  

Oh, by the way, one of the things that I learned in my years in the fine arts was that I should know what I like, and that I should respect the artistic choices of others. I don't know whether you have any artistic "credentials", or whether you are just a poser, but your comment suggests a closed-mindedness that is the antithesis of the artists that I have known and respected...

Actually, by singling out the very one cue that isn't cliché Williams suggests close-mindedness on your part. With comments like these you punish Williams for trying something else. If you truly have some artistic genes in your blood then you would not keep your favorite artist on such a short leash.

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Alex Cremers

[orrakul 0]

Actually, by singling out the very one cue that isn't cliché Williams suggests close-mindedness on your part. With comments like these you punish Williams for trying something else. If you truly have some artistic genes in your blood then you would not keep your favorite artist on such a short leash.  

 

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Alex Cremers

Alex,

Perhaps I didn't express myself clearly. I tend to like the more traditional, orchestral scores over atonal scores - this is one of the reasons that I'm drawn to JW. The Knight Bus theme works brilliantly in the film - it sets the correct mood and tone for the scene. So, JW found the correct "voice" for the scene. I'm just saying that I wouldn't put that particular cue on a list of my favourite JW cues.

When I listen to POA, I always listen to this cue - I never skip it. It's just not one of my favourites. I hope that's not closed-minded - it's just a matter of personal taste.

One of the bigger surprises for me is how much I like the Minority Report and Catch Me If You Can scores. I listen to these alot, but they aren't your typical JW scores, are they? Film scoring is hard because the music has to fit the scene and be musical in its own right. Not many composers can walk this fine line as well as JW. I don't want to keep JW on a leash, always doing the same thing - but I can't help that I like some things and not others - that's just the way I am.

I hope that's not closed-minded...

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The same would go for the curiously titled "Hedwig's Theme". Like Fawkes, it's a brilliant piece of music, but doesn't really match the label. Everyone knows it as just "the Harry Potter theme", as soon as they heard it.

Yeah, people think it's the "Harry Potter theme" when it really should be titled the "Hogwarts Theme". Harry's theme is completely something else. Williams' music is so complex, it's over peoples' heads entirely.

[Adam 1]

Its hard to give Hedwig's theme an exact label. Sometimes it feels connected to Harry although quite often it just feels like a theme for the overall experience - something kind of spooky and magical connecting the characters to the new Hogwarts world.

With the discussion about CoS, I’m more positive about the themes though the score has plenty of frustrations.

With Fawkes, I think he had to score the character how he’s supposed to be in terms of what the movie is going for. It wouldn’t be for him to say, wow Fawkes really sucks - I need to write something to fit the bad special effects. He was supposed to be a sentimental, heroic bird and that comes through in the theme. If anything, he’s put into a position of having to compensate for an otherwise unmagical creature.

Stone motif is overused and less than ideal but actually fits the movie well in that the theme communicates danger and mystery. But the chamber theme would have been preferable since it communicates these things as well as giving a sense of this being a new adventure.

Dobby is a tough one because the theme is barely used so in that case I think he did almost write the theme as much for the album as anything. But it does kind of feel like a scheming and sympathetic elf so it seems fine though I’m not really remembering the nature of the scenes where it briefly appears.

Lockhart theme is aristorcratic and pompous and works fine in the movie I thought.

The concert arrangements are overemphasized, especially compared to his more recent approach of not really expanding much on his underscore. But I think he still based these themes on seeing the movie first since even with JFK he saw some of the movie before coming up with his pre-written themes and that was an unusual experiment.

- Adam

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Its hard to give Hedwig's theme an exact label. Sometimes it feels connected to Harry although quite often it just feels like a theme for the overall experience - something kind of spooky and magical connecting the characters to the new Hogwarts world.

Connecting the characters or the audience? I think it's an overal main theme for "the Harry Potter world", written for an easier, simpler connection with the audience.

[orrakul 0]

Its hard to give Hedwig's theme an exact label. Sometimes it feels connected to Harry although quite often it just feels like a theme for the overall experience - something kind of spooky and magical connecting the characters to the new Hogwarts world.

I think it's an overal main theme for "the Harry Potter world", written for an easier, simpler connection with the audience.

I agree...

[Adam 1]

Its hard to give Hedwig's theme an exact label. Sometimes it feels connected to Harry although quite often it just feels like a theme for the overall experience - something kind of spooky and magical connecting the characters to the new Hogwarts world.

Connecting the characters or the audience? I think it's an overal main theme for "the Harry Potter world", written for an easier, simpler connection with the audience.

All film music is meant to connect to the audience so we’re not disagreeing there. I’m thinking of times when the theme reacts through the characters’ perceptions but there are times when it doesn’t so in that sense your way of looking at it is correct also. But my main point was that it takes on many different forms. For example, there are times when its heard up high on celeste where it feels strongly connected to Harry and his journey.

- Adam

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I love how Williams used Hedwig's Theme for so many things, despite some people's objections and statements that it appeared too much. Perhaps it was used liberally in the first half of the movie, but the second half is very dominated by other themes, particularly Voldemort/You-Know-Who's themes, the Family theme and the Stone theme. I reckon he wanted to establish the magic and wonder of Harry's world so we get a firm grip of it through Hedwig's Theme, so he could then explore the other areas and characters.

It's funny then that I say it represents the entire magical world when Williams has another concert piece with different themes and calls it "Harry's Wondrous World". Oh well...

[HPFAN_2 0]

Some of you don't get it. I don't care about the use of the music in the film. Does that theme match what it's intended to match.

With that said i have to say that Dobby's theme is a great peice i love the strings playing around the main melody toward the end. However it does not match the character to me.

Another theme that is a bit misplaced is Monica's Theme. It's a bit dark for the character.

[Jeshopk 8]

The bottom line is, there's more than one great way to score a scene or a character. JW has never fouled it up. Just in the minds of particular folks.

Dobby's and AI themes? No, those are effective in describing the elements they are meant for.

Dobby's theme describes the whimsical, nasal, odd, humorous character.

AI theme describes the pure, yet melancholy love of the Robot for mamma.

[Henry B 50]

JW has never fouled it up.

Never? Seriously?