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Nick Parker

The "what Does That Theme Represent/ "where Does That Cue Go In The Film Go?"/ "is That Cue Even In The Film?" Thread

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Listening to a lot of my John Williams albums, I often ask myself the three aforementioned questions. For example, while listening to "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" last night, I realized that I have no idea what is in the film and what is not. Assuming that a thread discussing these questions does not yet exist, I think that this thread can be a good "database" (so to speak) for those uninitiated, such as myself. Feel free to list any scores where you ask yourself those three questions (or similar ones). Once again, I apologize if a thread similar to this has been created.

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Where does "Attack on the Car" from WotW go? Or is that just an unused cue?

Is an unused cue for a deleted scene where one tripod attacked Ray's car. I think there are stills of that scene.

Listening to a lot of my John Williams albums, I often ask myself the three aforementioned questions.

You need to listen better

HIs question is legit. Williams track names are often mischievous and add that to unused cues and you may not have a clue.

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Thank you, Luke. And, Williamsfan301, not all of us have easy access to a film for reference. On that note, is "The Hunt" used in the film? And if so, where? My guess would be the scene where the people (was it InGen?) were capturing various dinosaurs using vehicles.

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Thank you, Luke. And, Williamsfan301, not all of us have easy access to a film for reference. On that note, is "The Hunt" used in the film? And if so, where? My guess would be the scene where the people (was it InGen?) were capturing various dinosaurs using vehicles.

No, its not. And I take it back. You obviously do have ears.

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"The Hunt" was not used in the film, but I'm not sure what scene it was written for.

General consensus on this board in past threads seems to be that it was written for the dinosaur round up when InGen arrives on the island.

It's better than the hack job music edit that made the final cut, that's for true.

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Not all of us have easy access to a film for reference.

In the case that you missed that post.

I did. But still, it can't be that hard to just watch it.

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That wink is not the kind of wink that I think you interpreted it as. That wink was simply a way of showing that my reply was meant to be taken as a "tongue-in-cheek" (is that the correct phrase?). I watch PG-13 films. There is no problem with that ( I am 15, after all). I watch R-rated films as well, but I think the qualities of those films justify my ...viewing of them, if that sentence makes sense. For example, I watch "Braveheart" because it is a great film ( and for the oddly hilarious deaths in it), not because of its R-rating.

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Oh dear god....

I don't have enough parts on my body to count how many of the teenagers I teach watch movies PG-13 and beyond (including X) on a regular basis. MPAA ratings mean nothing these days...

Uh... teenagers watch PG-13 movies? Yeah, no kidding.

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Okay, I have another subject, dealing with the first question. I have asked this question before, a few months ago, but I do not believe I received a satisfactory answer. I am hearing an ominous four-note motiv in "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" ( an example would be: C#, D#, E, then C# an octave higher). What does this theme represent? Is it some sort of general "danger" motiv, or what? One can hear the motiv start "The Raptors Appear".

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Okay, I have another subject, dealing with the first question. I have asked this question before, a few months ago, but I do not believe I received a satisfactory answer. I am hearing an ominous four-note motiv in "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" ( an example would be: C#, D#, E, then C# an octave higher). What does this theme represent? Is it some sort of general "danger" motiv, or what? One can hear the motiv start "The Raptors Appear".

It's the raptors theme from the Jurassic Park - hence why it's used in "The Raptor's Appear"

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Okay, I have another subject, dealing with the first question. I have asked this question before, a few months ago, but I do not believe I received a satisfactory answer. I am hearing an ominous four-note motiv in "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" ( an example would be: C#, D#, E, then C# an octave higher). What does this theme represent? Is it some sort of general "danger" motiv, or what? One can hear the motiv start "The Raptors Appear".

It's the raptors theme from the Jurassic Park - hence why it's used in "The Raptor's Appear"

No its not the exact 'carnosaur motif' from JP (and prominently used in JPIII) its similar, some kind of derivative of the former.

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Okay, I have another subject, dealing with the first question. I have asked this question before, a few months ago, but I do not believe I received a satisfactory answer. I am hearing an ominous four-note motiv in "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" ( an example would be: C#, D#, E, then C# an octave higher). What does this theme represent? Is it some sort of general "danger" motiv, or what? One can hear the motiv start "The Raptors Appear".

It's the raptors theme from the Jurassic Park - hence why it's used in "The Raptor's Appear"

You are incorrect, I can say for certain. The "Carnivore Motiv" ( whatever, I am just going to call it the "Raptor Theme") used in "Jurassic Park" would be: "Bb, Bnatural to the immediate right of the Bb, G nearest left of the B, and then C# to the nearest left of the G," if that makes sense. This theme is never used in the sountrack to "The Lost World: Jurassic Park". Though, if I do so recall, the "Raptor Theme" was used in the film when Dr. Hammond's nephew mentioned the velociraptors. Do not have these sorts of arguments with those equipped with (almost) perfect pitch. Also, the motiv that I described a post or so again cannot be for the raptors, as the motiv can be found in quite a number of tracks in the album, such "Visitor in San Diego" and "The Compys Dine".

EDIT: And, Luke: though they convey similar feelings to an extent, I do not consider the two motivs to be that similar at all. I appreciate both of your efforts though.

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Okay, I have another subject, dealing with the first question. I have asked this question before, a few months ago, but I do not believe I received a satisfactory answer. I am hearing an ominous four-note motiv in "The Lost World: Jurassic Park" ( an example would be: C#, D#, E, then C# an octave higher). What does this theme represent? Is it some sort of general "danger" motiv, or what? One can hear the motiv start "The Raptors Appear".

It's the raptors theme from the Jurassic Park - hence why it's used in "The Raptor's Appear"

You are incorrect, I can say for certain. The "Carnivore Motiv" ( whatever, I am just going to call it the "Raptor Theme") used in "Jurassic Park" would be: "Bb, Bnatural to the immediate right of the Bb, G nearest left of the B, and then C# to the nearest left of the G," if that makes sense. This theme is never used in the sountrack to "The Lost World: Jurassic Park". Though, if I do so recall, the "Raptor Theme" was used in the film when Dr. Hammond's nephew mentioned the velociraptors. Do not have these sorts of arguments with those equipped with (almost) perfect pitch. Also, the motiv that I described a post or so again cannot be for the raptors, as the motiv can be found in quite a number of tracks in the album, such "Visitor in San Diego" and "The Compys Dine".

EDIT: And, Luke: though they convey similar feelings to an extent, I do not consider the two motivs to be that similar at all. I appreciate both of your efforts though.

A) That is a general carnivore theme which is associated MAINLY with the T-Rex. JW writes now more for emotional impact than specific leitmotifs as he did earlier in his career.

B) Learn to talk in intervals and their qualities, and not "turn by turn" directions! It's a scale! Not a highway! What you should have said was "Bb up a m2 to B, down a M3 to G then down a tritone to Db (not C# since you only use sharps going up and flats going down)" It took me 15 minutes to figure out what the devil you were talking about.

C) There's no such thing as perfect pitch. Just incredibly good relative pitch. I won't get into the reasons why - suffice to say there is no such thing as perfect pitch.

D) Don't argue with someone who's been playing music 25 years and has a masters in music ed. My little finger knows more than you'll ever know about music, kid.

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A) I personally call it the "Raptor Theme", but I can understand what you are saying.

B) I am not at all surprised that you are confused. I confused myself writing that. I am very musically illiterate in the technical aspects such as "intervals" and "modes". I really wish I had some sort of tutelage on these matters....

C) Which is why I included the "almost" right before the "perfect".

D) That sounds a little too harsh for a comment that was not meant to be taken all too seriously ( though I do suppose that it can certainly be interpreted that way. We seem to have problems communicating.)To be perfectly honest, I would like an apology and a handshake (insert "wink" here. Please do not interpret this wink the way you did before.)

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I've always thought of the motif you're referring to from TLW as just a new theme for the "bad" dinosaurs, completely separate from the "bad" dinosaur (or raptor) theme from the first score. Both have four notes, but the shape and intervals are all different.

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Yes, that is what I said before, though I did not say anything about what the "new" motiv meant. I will take your word for it, as I do not remember its use in the film all too well. Thank you. And with that:

I revisited "Jurassic Park" (the score, I mean), and after finishing (and enjoying) it, a few questions sprang up. First:

From my hazy recollection of the film, I do not remember the sixteenth Track ("End Credits") actually being used in the credits ( "Theme from Jurassic Park" was used, am I correct?). Is the album track some sort of alternate cue? I doubt it, though, as that would be one short (or fast) credit roll. Second:

Well, I will wait until the first question is answered.

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As far as I know, the track "Welcome to Jurassic Park" is actually the end credits piece. "End Credits" is just a reprise of part of that track. "Theme from Jurassic Park" is a separate concert version of the main theme.

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Thank you. Next question:

Is all of "Incident at Isla Nublar" used in the film? I do not have specific times to use, but I am pretty sure that I do not remember the "second half" (if it can be divided into roughly two equal parts) being used in the prologue of the film.

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Though I am not sure how much you can trust this, I do want to say that the first "blast" of music accompanies the scene where the one hunter ( or whoever he was) told Dr. Sattler to run after spotting raptors. However, if I recall correctly, the music that accompanies the death of that aforementioned hunter is actually taken from Track 5, "The Raptor Attack". I have no idea where, or if, Track 5 is actually used in one specific scene extensively. I could be wrong though, something I would not doubt.

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Is that around the part where Dr. Grant and the kids hide under a fallen tree or something to avoid a stampede ( or was that the third film)?

It's right before the "Must go faster!" scene, where Ellie and co are running around with bright flashlights shouting "Alan!"

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Thank you. Next question:

Is all of "Incident at Isla Nublar" used in the film? I do not have specific times to use, but I am pretty sure that I do not remember the "second half" (if it can be divided into roughly two equal parts) being used in the prologue of the film.

That track includes music from the opening scene, the falling tour car and Ellie and Muldoon arriving at the T-Rex paddock.

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A) That is a general carnivore theme which is associated MAINLY with the T-Rex. JW writes now more for emotional impact than specific leitmotifs as he did earlier in his career.

B) Learn to talk in intervals and their qualities, and not "turn by turn" directions! It's a scale! Not a highway! What you should have said was "Bb up a m2 to B, down a M3 to G then down a tritone to Db (not C# since you only use sharps going up and flats going down)" It took me 15 minutes to figure out what the devil you were talking about.

C) There's no such thing as perfect pitch. Just incredibly good relative pitch. I won't get into the reasons why - suffice to say there is no such thing as perfect pitch.

D) Don't argue with someone who's been playing music 25 years and has a masters in music ed. My little finger knows more than you'll ever know about music, kid.

all I can say.

oh my I hate teachers

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D) Don't argue with someone who's been playing music 25 years and has a masters in music ed. My little finger knows more than you'll ever know about music, kid.

You know for someone with such an allegedly impressive record, you come across as an arrogant bully. You're arguing with a 15 year-old, man.

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Thank you. Next question:

Is all of "Incident at Isla Nublar" used in the film? I do not have specific times to use, but I am pretty sure that I do not remember the "second half" (if it can be divided into roughly two equal parts) being used in the prologue of the film.

That track includes music from the opening scene, the falling tour car and Ellie and Muldoon arriving at the T-Rex paddock.

Oh, so that is the part where Dr. Grant and the kids jump from some sort of tree to escape the jeep? And so the not-so-furious music (I am at a loss to determine words for it) is the part where Muldoon and Dr. Sattler find Ian Malcom after Herr T. Rex got to him? It all makes sense now, thank you! I will ask a smaller question this time.

In the penultimate Track, "T-Rex Rescue & Finale", the album version seems to use an ending that I do not recall hearing in the film. I think I remember hearing the "Island Motiv" ( there has got to be a better name for that theme) when the T-Rex appears and beats down the raptors. Was the film version tracked? I seem to remember that the "Island Motiv" ( I hate that name) sounded somewhat inappropiate.

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All the music in T-REx rescue is heard in the movie. THat final fanfare is when the T-Rex kills the last raptor and roars triumphantly as the banner falls on him. However, when the T-Rex shows up for the rescue, you can indeed hear the Island Fanfare in which I'm pretty sure is an insert from Journey to the Island.

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Yes the "T-Rex Rescue & Finale" cue is pretty much intact in the film and does feature a tracked in sequence of the island fanfare.

"Eye to Eye" covers the sequence begining with Ellie and Muldoon's decision to go to the power shed. It ends with the sequence after Muldoon tells her to run to the shed.

The sequence where Muldoon encounters a Raptor is actually the last part of "The Raptor Attack" cue. The first half covers the beginning of the kitchen sequence.

"Welcome To Jurassic Park" is the entire end credit piece.

"Incident at Isla Nublar" covers the opening sequence and then switches to rescuing Tim from the tree. It ends with Ellie and Muldoon arriving at the T-Rex pen and finding Genero's remains.

The cue that is labeled "End Credits" is just a concert version of the Island theme/fanfare.

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The cue is intact until the final minute or so when the T-rex grabs the first raptor, then the Island fanfare is inserted until Hammond pulls up in the jeep, there it switches back to the original cue.

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all I can say.

oh my I hate teachers

You wouldn't be where you are today without em.

D) Don't argue with someone who's been playing music 25 years and has a masters in music ed. My little finger knows more than you'll ever know about music, kid.

You know for someone with such an allegedly impressive record, you come across as an arrogant bully. You're arguing with a 15 year-old, man.

No. I just don't like a 15 year old talking like he knows more than he does - which he admits in later posts.

Don't come in, ask a question, get an answer, the argue that the answer is wrong. Obviously, either you stated the question wrong or you already knew the answer and the question was meaningless. Now, it's he did the former - he asked the question wrong so he got the wrong answer. BUT, it also doesn't help that when you rephrase the question, you also to make your self sound smart than the people you just asked. It doesn't elicet a good response, especially when you aren't.

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No, we would barely be able to do anything without education systems.

After trying to interpret your post ( forgive me if I am overstepping my bounds as a child, but I do think that you could have worded some sentences in a more intelligible form), I think you are taking this out of proportion. I asked an innocent question (albeit in poor word choice), and you gave an answer that I knew to be false, and so I responded accordingly. I see no problem with that. If an Algebra teacher gets asked what "2 times 2" equals, and the Algebra teacher mistakenly answers "6", then I believe that the student has every right to point out that mistake, even though he does not know the correct answer. Also, I do not believe that I tried to make myself seem smarter than I am- if you are referring to my sarcastic comment which you apparently took rather seriously, or attempt to explain why you were incorrect. All I tried to do was explain my answer in the best way that I could, which is illiterate at best.

Now, before we tear each others' lungs out, I would like to make another offer of apology. Do you accept?

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