So Ridley Scott is directing a Prometheus sequel... (The official Alien: Covenant Thread)

[A24 4,336]

I was referring to the Leicester Square Theatre. That's where we saw ROTJ. The Odeon, was that the theatre in that modern tall building? 

 

 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

The Odeon is on the east side of the square, and it has a (small) tower attached to it. The LST, has now, unfortunately, been split into two cinemas, as has (and I'm really sad about this) The Curzon Mayfair. I saw 2001 in 70mm at TCM (it was the brand new struck-from-the-negative print that had been playing at the NFT) and it was an absolute privilege to see it how it should be seen. I actually felt humbled, to be in the presence of such overwhelming greatness.

[Thor 7,506]

2 hours ago, Godzilla said:

 

I meant the album, not Goldsmith's original as-composed-for-the-film score.

 

Ah, OK. For album, I prefer the original Silva album over the Intrada 2CD (although the latter is obviously superior in terms of sound quality). I'm guessing that's not surprising for anyone.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

28 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

Ah, OK. For album, I prefer the original Silva album over the Intrada 2CD (although the latter is obviously superior in terms of sound quality). I'm guessing that's not surprising for anyone.

 

Okay back to my original question because you keep not answering it (third time's a charm!), OST album vs final edited film score as heard in movie - which do you prefer?

[crumbs 14,317]

Holy shit, I've finally placed it! The scene at

Spoiler

Shaw's tombstone

is a visual recreation of Isle of the Dead! I was wondering about those unusual swaying trees behind Walter and what meaning they had.

 

 

Even though these films aren't flawless movies, thank God for Ridley Scott the filmmaker. He packs his films with so much visual detail and craft, it really leaves most other filmmakers in the dust with his attention to detail.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

A Q.Q:

What does the "LV" - as in LV 426 - mean?

[crumbs 14,317]

Life viable, I think.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

Thanks, for that.

[Jay 37,364]

3 hours ago, Thor said:

The original DVD set allowed us to compare them with its isolated score tracks, and it's a shame this feature wasn't carried over to the subsequent DVD and BR releases.

 

You are incorrect.  The blu rays have isolated score tracks as well.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

Only on the TVs, not on the EEs.

[crumbs 14,317]

Probably because the extended versions of all 4 films used tracked music for their additional/extended scenes, so there's no point having an isolated score on them. For example, the Alien 3 workprint only had access to music from the film stems and OST (as the sessions are apparently, sadly, lost to time).

 

Don't the first two films have multiple isolated score tracks, one for the final film score and another for the composer's intended score? From memory, the very first DVD release of Alien had a SFX-only soundtrack, in addition to multiple deleted scenes that were ultimately truncated for Scott's "Director's Cut" (none of which were carried over to subsequent home video releases).

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

29 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Don't the first two films have multiple isolated score tracks, one for the final film score and another for the composer's intended score?

 

That is correct. Both ALIEN, and ALIENS have two iso scores, each. The other two only have one, each.

The nice thing is, all iso scores are in 5.1.

[A24 4,336]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Holy shit, I've finally placed it! The scene at

  Reveal hidden contents

Shaw's tombstone

is a visual recreation of Isle of the Dead! I was wondering about those unusual swaying trees behind Walter and what meaning they had.

 

 

Even though these films aren't flawless movies, thank God for Ridley Scott the filmmaker. He packs his films with so much visual detail and craft, it really leaves most other filmmakers in the dust with his attention to detail.

 

So what's the meaning of those swaying trees? 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

Public opinion?

[crumbs 14,317]

Yep, thank the maker for Charles de Lauzirika and Mike Matessino (who assembled the isolated scores).

 

3 minutes ago, Alexcremers said:

 

So what's the meaning of those swaying trees? 

 

Well the trees themselves have no meaning in the film, but it was a noticeably specific inclusion in an otherwise barren environment. I was curious as to why they were included, and now I know why.

 

I quite enjoyed all the references Covenant makes to art history, ranging from paintings to music to literature.

[A24 4,336]

Is that Incanus standing in the boat?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crumbs 14,317]

Well for anyone bored with the references to art history in Covenant, there's always a new Transformers film on the horizon. I'm sure there's about seven hundred thousand different elements on screen in every frame. It's so dense, every single image has so many things going on.

[A24 4,336]

 

 

"I don't like the Transformers movies either."

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

Holy shit, I've finally placed it! The scene at

  Reveal hidden contents

Shaw's tombstone

is a visual recreation of Isle of the Dead! I was wondering about those unusual swaying trees behind Walter and what meaning they had.

 

 

 

 

I saw this in the Alte gallery in Berlin a couple of weeks back. 

[crumbs 14,317]

Speaking of other art history infused in the film, I can't believe I only just picked up on this one. Seems rather obvious in hindsight, considering the appearance of Michelangelo's David in the prologue. Surely the name itself is no coincidence, nor is this pose of an Engineer's corpse in the workshop.

 

David so desperately wishes to consider himself a creator of life and superior to the Engineers, that he keeps the cadaver of one in the same pose to remind him of his aspirations.

 

 

 

It's pretty fun how Ridley's contorted these pieces into a deranged, disturbed, Gigerian nightmare. I wish he'd pushed it even further, rather than resorting to action schlock for most of the third act. I guess that was Fox's influence.

 

Still though, even artwork like The Fall of the Rebel Angels were used as inspiration for the theatrical poster, which is cool.

 

[Thor 7,506]

16 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Speaking of other art history infused in the film, I can't believe I only just picked up on this one. Seems rather obvious in hindsight, considering the appearance of Michelangelo's David in the prologue.

 

Absolutely. It's one of the MANY intertextual things in the film which I'm writing about right now!

 

2 hours ago, Godzilla said:

 

Okay back to my original question because you keep not answering it (third time's a charm!), OST album vs final edited film score as heard in movie - which do you prefer?

 

I don't really understand the question. While I enjoy the Scott/Rawlings-edited score as it works in the film, I wouldn't want to listen to it as an album. The original Silva would always win in such a competition. As you know, I separate strongly between soundtrack listening and scores-in-movies.

[crumbs 14,317]

26 minutes ago, Thor said:

Absolutely. It's one of the MANY intertextual things in the film which I'm writing about right now!

 

 

More than just the obviously disturbing act of keeping an Engineer's corpse as a trophy to gaze upon (see Ozymandias references), that he's contorted it into his own deranged interpretation of Michelangelo's statue is a literal representation of David projecting himself as a creator, as a God.

 

With this piece of art, David relegates the Engineers as his creation upon which he held all power, just as the statue of David was Michelangelo's creation. He is so obsessed with being superior to the Engineers, who created his creator, that he can't help but mock them even after committing their genocide.

 

Then there's all the references to Byron, Shelley, Giger, Böcklin, Milton, Floris, Bernini, etc. What was David teaching Walter on the flute, Wagner?

 

The film is actually quite rich when you look beneath the surface.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[crumbs 14,317]

4 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Wasn't that the Life theme from Prometheus? Or was he playing that before teaching how to play the flute to Walter?

 

 

 

There's a few different scenes with David playing the flute. The second scene takes place after Walter discovers

Spoiler

Shaw's body, and walks in on David playing his soliloquy for Shaw (which is the Life theme).

 

In the infamous earlier flute scene though, I'm sure he teaches Walter something different when discussing symphonies (Wagner?)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

I watched Prometheus three times.

 

The first time I was profoundly disappointed. I found it to be a slick, albeit good looking, over produced mess.

 

Then months later when it came out on video I decided to give it a second chance, and thought it was much better than I remembered, and discovered I missed the high sci-fi concepts Ridley Scott was trying to challenge the audience with, and came away thinking it laid the foundation for the Aliens saga in an intelligent, thoughtful way.

 

Then I saw it a third time and realised I was right the first time.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So once is enough?

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

Indeed.

[A24 4,336]

I thought the questions were presented in such a non-provocative way that I couldn't be bothered to spend any time on them. I felt 2001: A Space Odyssey handled the same subject matter in a better, more elegant way.

[crumbs 14,317]

This is a pretty level-headed article on what does -- and doesn't -- work about Alien: Covenant:

https://www.vox.com/summer-movies/2017/5/17/15612540/alien-covenant-review-fassbender-satan-paradise-lost-spoilers

 

Also discusses the film's themes and the significance of the biblical references. I don't remember David's line being so blatant a Milton reference ("Better to reign in hell than serve in heaven.")

 

I'd be curious to know if there's a longer cut which further explores the lore. Hopefully Scott will include a longer version on the Bluray this time around.

 

Also, Ridley elaborates on why David killed the Engineers and despises humans:

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Did Prometheus ask questions? 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

53 minutes ago, Thor said:

I don't really understand the question. While I enjoy the Scott/Rawlings-edited score as it works in the film, I wouldn't want to listen to it as an album. The original Silva would always win in such a competition. As you know, I separate strongly between soundtrack listening and scores-in-movies.

 

Thank you for finally answering the question properly!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Thor 7,506]

1 hour ago, crumbs said:

The film is actually quite rich when you look beneath the surface.

 

It's an insanely rich film in terms of subtext and intertextuality -- almost on the level of PROMETHEUS (which was slightly more focussed than COVENANT, because it didn't have to deal with many horror tropes). The whole David thing has several layers -- the etymological meaning of the name itself, and then all the parallells to the biblical David which the Michelangelo statue portrays. And don't even get me started on the "Entry of the Gods Into Valhalla" piece by Wagner!  Or the "Ozymandias" poem which actually has double or perhaps even TRIPLE intertextuality.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

Let's not forget "Love the One You're With" by Stephen Stills.

 

Someone really needs to write a theological treatise on its presence in the film.  And why members of the crew like listening to centuries old songs. Kind of like the guys who work on cargo boats and oil rigs today like to listen to medieval lute music and the hurdy gurdy.

[Thor 7,506]

I haven't really figured out if John Denver's "Take Me Home, Country Roads" has any significant meaning beyond the obvious ('taking Elizabeth to her new 'home'). I'm thinking it might also allude to the pioneer spirit, esp. considering Daniels' desire to build a log cabin at the new planet. So perhaps it has some of those old western, 'great frontier' allusions. A link between old-school and new-school colonists.

 

9 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Someone really needs to write a theological treatise on its presence in the film.  And why members of the crew like listening to centuries old songs. Kind of like the guys who work on cargo boats and oil rigs today like to listen to medieval flute music and the hurdy gurdy.

 

Well, in ALIEN, Dallas listens to Mozart. An even greater leap. Great music is timeless!

[A24 4,336]

Aren't these references to paintings and sculptures nothing more than just loose references to paintings and sculptures? It's no secret that Scott uses classical art as an inspiration source to convey a certain look or atmosphere.

 

 

Gladiator

 

 

 

 

Blade Runner

 

 

Prometheus

 

[Thor 7,506]

No, if you look into the pieces he uses or references, they're always filled with all kinds of relevant crossover meaning.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

48 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Let's not forget "Love the One You're With" by Stephen Stills

 

 

I would love Vickers in an instant! Lucky old Captain Idris!

 

 

 

 

41 minutes ago, Thor said:

Well, in ALIEN, Dallas listens to Mozart. An even greater leap. Great music is timeless!

 

I'm sure that you know this, Thor, but...later on in the film, there was meant to be a love scene taking place there, and the lovers were going to be interrupted by Kane's body floating by.

[Thor 7,506]

3 minutes ago, Richard said:

I'm sure that you know this, Thor, but...later on in the film, there was meant to be a love scene taking place there, and the lovers were going to be interrupted by Kane's body floating by.

 

I didn't know that. Or had forgotten about it. Is it in the special features?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

I'm not sure. I remember reading about in Starlog, or Starburst, or Cinefantastique, or maybe even THE BOOK OF ALIEN, by Scanlon and Cross.

[Thor 7,506]

OK. In either case, I think they chose wisely in the end!  

[A24 4,336]

16 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Did Prometheus ask questions? 

 

Would you be surprised if the franchise concluded with the idea that mankind is the ultimate weapon created by the Engineers? After man has destroyed Earth, he will conquer the universe, including the home planet of the Engineers, only to do the same thing all over again. Ultimate destruction! Is that why the Engineers have created the Xenomorph? To wipe us out? To undo the mistake of the Engineers?

 

 

Alex

[Naïve Old Fart 9,533]

16 hours ago, Stefancos said:

Did Prometheus ask questions? 

 

I don't think it's an S.O.S.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[A24 4,336]

Spoilers!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Not really, no.

[Thor 7,506]

Here is my review (in Norwegian). I have no idea how much sense it makes in Google Translate:

 

http://montages.no/2017/05/hybrid-og-hybris-i-ridley-scotts-alien-covenant/

 

I'll try to boil down the main points in English once I get the time.