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Brundlefly

The Western Scores of Jerry Goldsmith

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16 hours ago, Brundlefly said:

I'm not sure about that. :unsure: Here's my Jerry Goldsmith Flop 10:

 

  1. Not Without My Daughter
  2. Bad Girls
  3. Along Came a Spider
  4. Alien Nation
  5. Runaway
  6. King Solomon's Mines
  7. Criminal Law
  8. Mr. Baseball
  9. Congo
  10. The Vanishing

Bad Girls really underwhelmed me in every perspective. A musically little inspired copy of former action scores with a slightly changed texture. You basically already know all of it, only this time it sounds kinda western-like. I know, I exaggerate, but considering it's Goldsmith it's one of his comparatively poorest efforts.

 

I can understand that entire list to an extent, with the exception of Congo and Bad Girls. Though I don't think either one should be on a list of his greatest works (I certainly wasn't suggesting Bad Girls as a score that would make your top 10), to my ears they were both very solid scores with some wonderful highlights. I did share a 9+ minute suite of Bad Girls when I recommended it (albeit ranked #4 out of 5) further up in this thread -- do you not like *that* material? If you didn't, I don't know why you bought the album!

 

Not Without My Daughter is a "meh" score to me, but I also kinda don't understand the extreme hate towards that score. I mean, the movie is offensively racist and I guess the score suffers by being associated with it, but I think the music has its moments. I'd rather listen to it than Extreme Prejudice any day, and that score seems to have many more fans which I have trouble understanding.

 

Yavar

 

 

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7 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I can understand that entire list to an extent, with the exception of Congo and Bad Girls. Though I don't think either one should be on a list of his greatest works (I certainly wasn't suggesting Bad Girls as a score that would make your top 10), to my ears they were both very solid scores with some wonderful highlights. I did share a 9+ minute suite of Bad Girls when I recommended it (albeit ranked #4 out of 5) further up in this thread -- do you not like *that* material? If you didn't, I don't know why you bought the album!

 

Not Without My Daughter is a "meh" score to me, but I also kinda don't understand the extreme hate towards that score. I mean, the movie is offensively racist and I guess the score suffers by being associated with it, but I think the music has its moments. I'd rather listen to it than Extreme Prejudice any day, and that score seems to have many more fans which I have trouble understanding.

The main problem I have with Bad Girls is not that it is badly written (although it is as well underwhelming in that regard). I can also enjoy it a little. It's just that nothing is new in this score. It's basically Rambo with a western and a retarded 90s texture, but it never exceeds the former score in any perspective. There has to be a Flop 10 and in my opinion there are too many scores that are much better or slightly better than Bad Girls.

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I'm currently getting acquainted with Take a Hard Ride. So far a very enjoyable score with much more subtle parts than 100 Rifles and some exciting action cues. But I know what you mean, @Yavar Moradi, with your comment about the synthesizer for the bad guys. It's maybe a bit retarded, but I don't think it's disturbing the score. What I'm really going crazy about is the sound quality. Outstanding! Wasn't this recorded the same year as The Wind and the Lion?

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I have to say a few things:

  1. "Cliff Dwelling Battle" from Take a Hard Ride is one of the most fun cues ever written!
  2. It is a shame that "No Choice" from 100 Rifles is just available in mono. On the hifi-system it's not that grave, but when you put on the headphones the quality difference between the mono and the stereo tracks is huge!
  3. Stagecoach is a lovely little, very traditional score, like The Missouri Breaks. Nothing to go mad about, but publicist's comment about it isn't justified either.

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I recently watched 100 Rifles and Rio Conchos.

100 Rifles is a surprisingly entertaining movie with two great leads and a good balance between humorous, adventurous and serious scenes. The emotional parts are kept subtle, the coolness is not overemphasized and when the movie strikes a more serious note, it doesn't get ridiculous at all.

Rio Conchos was even more surprising. The acting is sublime, the drama is way more down-to-earth than in most other westerns of that era and above all the style mostly seems like a classic western, but few pre-developments towards the italo western shine through.

I've heard Hour of the Gun is supposed to be another great western movie that is an antithesis of the same director's former western, also covering the legend of Waytt Earp. Rio Lobo is said to be a masterpiece and moreover the final film from Howard Hawks. Looking forward to these two!

 

On 6/26/2018 at 11:42 PM, Yavar Moradi said:

In case anyone cares, here's how I would rank LLL's Goldsmith western sale titles, in order of priority:

 

1. Rio Lobo -- a more subtle and melancholy score that gets under your skin and grows on you:

[...]

2. Bandolero! -- I love the whistled main theme though I understand if some don't; great themes and action music in this but it also has a more contemplative side I like:

[...]

3. Take A Hard Ride -- This has one of Jerry's best western themes and the highlights are incredible, but fair warning to those who might be turned off by the occasionally abrasive/unsettling synths for the villain:

[...]

4. Bad Girls -- Aside from the synth keyboard performances of the main theme which are very dated 90s sounding (and probably responsible for the poor reception this score had in the past), this is incredible music every bit on the level of Jerry's 60s and 70s western efforts. Listen particularly to the dark latter cue in this:

[...]

5. Stagecoach / The Loner -- This is a very nice score, very pleasant and folksy with catchy themes. It just lacks the badass moments of the other four albums listed above. In fact the most badass part of the CD is the TV music for The Loner. :)

[...]

Where would you rank the scores of 100 Rifles and Rio Conchos?

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16 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Rio Lobo is said to be a masterpiece and moreover the final film from Howard Hawks.

 

The second part is right, the first is...let's say i wonder were you dug up that critical opinion. It's a rather bad and tired reworking of several Hawksian traits. A hard slog, Jerry notwithstanding, but HOTG is a really good movie (with Garner and Robards in plum roles).

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I started listening to Rio Lobo and it was immediately clear that this is my second favourite after 100 Rifles. It's somehow the complete opposite of that score. It's calm and reserved and reminds me more of a classic western, instead of an italo western. The themes are beautiful, the instrumentation is frugal and extraordinary. It's hard for me to classify the general mood of the score. I don't know whether it sounds melancholic, joyous, insidious... that's the genius of Goldsmith's emotionally multilayered scoring (died in 1991) and it shows here.

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On 7/28/2018 at 5:09 AM, kaseykockroach said:

Runaway is rad, man. It's funky and hip to the jive.

Fuckin' A!!!! It gets nowhere near the love that it deserves.

 

 

 

I'd like to add EXTREME PREJUDICE to this list, as I've always regarded it as a modern western.

ARRIVALS is fantastic.

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1 hour ago, Richard said:

I'd like to add EXTREME PREJUDICE to this list, as I've always regarded it as a modern western.

ARRIVALS is fantastic.

I have a huge affection for that score for whatever reason and agree with you on counting it as one of Goldsmith's western scores, but Arrivals is the dullest track on the album.

 

In general, I wouldn't have expected his western scores to be such an eclectic gold mine. So far my favourites are:

  1. 100 Rifles (divine)
  2. Rio Lobo (interestingly subtle)
  3. Extreme Prejudice (badassness meets melancholy)
  4. Rio Conchos (classic and multilayered)
  5. Take a Hard Ride (beautifully euphoric)
  6. Stagecoach (sweet)

I still have to listen to The Great Train Robbery, One Little Indian, Hour of the Gun and Bandolero! and reconsider what I said about Bad Girls (which should at least not be heard directly after 100 Rifles).

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12 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Well on that criteria including Extreme Prejudice seems like a bit of a stretch, too.

Outland is more in line with Alien. It's sci-fi and horror, although the film is indeed sci-fi and western instead. Extreme Prejudice on the other hand got that modernized western-mexican flair as well as that certain coolness. Therefore I think it is just a "bit of a stretch", if at all.

 

18 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Why doesn't One Little Indian look like a western to you?

The title includes "Indian" and there is a camel on the cover.

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"Indian" is what Native Americans were commonly referred to as back then, and the title refers to an old (and common) rhyme, which was even turned into a song in the 1800s:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Little_Indians

 

I don't know what the story is with the camel but I know its presence in the film is supposed to be unusual and comedic...and the movie poster also has horses on it. Anyway, listen to the score and you'll definitely realize it's a western, aside from the middle eastern-ish (not Indian) riffs on Lawrence of Arabia which are the weakest part of the score IMO and the whole thing plays much better once those are easily edited out.


Yavar

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4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

You've never heard of "cowboys and Indians"? It's even a magazine!

It's the good old childhood game! 

 

Now, especially in Canada, we cannot call them that anymore. We have to say something like natives, aboriginals, or First Nations.

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I'd like to announce our return to the regular Goldsmith Odyssey with our latest episode, covering Jerry's first three (out of six total) scores for the long-running classic western series, Gunsmoke. And we have a truly special surprise, in that we are premiering these three complete Goldsmith western scores in very good-sounding MUSIC ONLY form for our listeners, thanks to collector Ron Burbella who had some of them on reel-to-reel tape he had acquired some time ago. These are incredibly varied works, with something for everyone -- don't miss your chance to hear what is effectively NEW Goldsmith!

 

https://www.buzzsprout.com/159614/853743-episode-14-gunsmoke-doc-judge-the-blacksmith-the-wake-1960?fbclid=IwAR0k7yIdg6xGfYb4GlxYXPox8QurAUa5ehN--8D97YO6behVGvuaFrcaIVM

 

74cb75bab2243992e98fab5156007185827084cf

 

Yavar

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Rio Lobo - not only a great score, but also a great movie. A prime example of an usual, decent western, becoming an unusual, great western, because of the phenomenal direction, music and performances. This is a movie that enjoys showing us scene after scene, instead of showing us a stiltedly coherent movie. Movements, gestures, mimics and many other technical and artistic details - that is what counts in Rio Lobo! The film gains a rather special kind of momentum. Whoever doesn't enjoy the moment that is just being watched, instead waiting for the flick to move on, will be bored! There should be more movies like this. Digging for Goldsmith western scores, who has expected to find a cineastic chest full of silver? On the other hand, it was the 60s, when the maestro's bad movie reputation hasn't existed yet.

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