Marcus

I am sure I am both bold and stupid, but my opinions are nevertheless well informed. Beethoven's ruthlessness towards musicians is also evident from his terrible orchestrations and atrocious vocal writing! By the same token, Williams' respectfulness is very clear in his grateful and graceful and brilliant writing. as for style, well, I dare anyone to name a living composer with a more immediately recognizable style than Williams. We should really stop endorsing the myths of misunderstood geniuses and tyrrannical artists; they're false, and very stupid at best, and at worst, harmful. They mustn't be perpetuated! P.S.: I am not alone in my criticisms of Beethoven: Similar views have been voiced by Jerry Goldsmith, Francis Poulenc, Frederic Chopin and Maurice Ravel, among others. Again, as a craftsman, I'm addressing technique, not style. And, again: A great artist can only become greater for showing a kind interest rather than contempt for the world!

"Fidelio" is severely dramatically flawed. Beethoven struggles to generate any kind of sympathy for his characters, and I find it very hard to care when I've seen it. Musically, it's evident that he has a poor understanding of how to musically convey emotion that is not his own. Beethoven lacks the empathy required for being a good dramatist. When he works with non-dramatic structures, he can of course be a lot more "dramatic", even theatrical (transition from movement 2 to 3, "Waldstein"..), but opera really wasn't his forte. Transition is certainly one thing Beethoven couldn't pull off convincingly. The going from one emotion to another becomes very schizophrenic, as in the dungeoun scene. Steef: I would rather say that we as artists can only benefit from having a kind and caring attitude towards the "world" or the "other". We should wish to understand, not only to be understood. Our shortcomings as people are almost always artistically evident on some level. And as composers, I think it our responsibility to be generous and patient with musicians, as we are "in it together", fighting for the same cause (which is good music). And I've always found that the most accomplished artists I have met (and in some cases known), have been the most humble.

I happen to believe that what I wrote in my last post is true, and can see only benefits to this belief. Williams is humble and respectful, not only towards musicians and directors, but towards the human drama that he scores. This is why he captures emotion so well, and so completely. This is also why Herrmann couldn't score "love" except from a very particular point of view. And why Wagner's characters never seem like real, living beings, and Mozart's do, even though Mozart's language is vastly more stylized. And it is why Beethoven couldn't write opera to save his life!

Williams' politeness and decency prove him to be so much more of a man than those of his colleagues who fail to control themselves. I mean, Herrmann was a wonderful composer, but his attitude held him back, not only professionally, but artistically. Williams is a gentleman, and his art proves it. We are what we write, and write what we are.

Goldsmith was rather bitter, it seems, and about several things. More than anything, I think he felt underappreciated by other serious musicians, and would have wanted more recognition of the complexity and artistic merit of his contribution to not only film music, but music in general. Whereas Williams enjoys a wonderful career in the world of concert music, and the esteem of his classical peers, and always downplays his own efforts in interviews, Goldsmith tended to come across as a little bitter and disillusioned...He deserved a lot more recognition from the classical world, and it is a great shame he never really got it. Not in life, anyway. I told him that I was going to dedicate my first symphony to him when I met him in London a few years ago, and he seemed genuinely touched, and very happy and grateful. He also seemed like a very, very sweet, kind and warm-hearted person. I overheard him talking to Richard Kraft about feeling sick, but I didnt realise then that he was actually more or less dying...

I love the flute solo in "Leia's Theme" (concert version), and the solo from "My Friend, The Brachiosaurus". There are plenty of amazing flute moments throughout the Harry Potter scores (Williams, of course, not Doyle), and I love the "Hedwig's Theme" counterpoint in "Harry's Wondrous World". Beautiful solos also in "Sleepers", "Stanley and Iris", and of course "The Seduction of Sukie" from "The Witches of Eastwick", plus "Hook", "Far and Away" and countless others.

Why is that? Please be kinder to your ears!

To suggest that Williams' score for AOTC is anything less than great, is simply absurd, and devoid of musical truth. Williams wrote a wonderful score for a horrible film. It happens. Whether or not it is one of Williams' finest efforts , it is nevertheless lightyears beyond what anyone of his contemporaries could ever hope to write, no matter how inspired.

I rather liked Luke's list. He's on to something...

Amen.

The writing is about as "signature 90's Goldmith" as it gets... The orchestrations and harmonies are a little too "simplistic" to be John Williams. Listen to the Dreamworks S.K.G brass chorale to hear what I'm referring to.

All the ones mentioned here are wonderful. Of more recent Goldsmith, I think "The Edge" has a beautiful main title score.

Great observations, Mark! I agree 100%!

I'm very excited about this! Elliot is a gifted composer (albeit not exactly a very eloquent one, judging from the interview sequence), and I like his concert works quite a bit. Good for him, and good for us, I suppose. I wish I could attend...

Congratulations! Well done!

Oh, me too!! I miss Jerry Goldsmith...

Ah, fun, fun, fun! And strangely nostalgic, as it reminds me a lot of ventures of mine into similar territory when I was very young. I wish they had gotten the force theme right, though...

Now, AOTC is certainly not a very pleasant film to watch. And the score was rather butchered in the film, but Williams' contribution is still magnificent!

Petition signed! Let's keep our fingers crossed,- you never know!

I think by now, this theme has become such a cultural icon, it can hardly induce fear outside of its original context. But keep in mind: Laughter is a very common response to fear!

Seriously, guys... "Saving Private Ryan", "Sleepers", "Rosewood", "Seven Years in Tibet", "Nixon"... They are fantastic scores! And "Sabrina" is, too. It is a fairly mediocre film, but Williams' contribution is tremendous, and pays a wonderful homage to a lost tradition of romantic scoring. And "In the Moonlight" is a very beautifully crafted song. Has anyone here looked at the harmonic construction of it? It's actually very interesting, and quite sophisticated! (Basically, it's in C major, but never gets there, and works its way down in fifths, starting on A, which becomes its tonal center by proxy). "Saving Private Ryan" is perhaps the best score for a world war II picture in film music history.

Oh, how fun! I think I would like him to have a dog...Considering his anglophilia, I wouldn't be surprised. Elgar had dogs. Herrmann too (not that he was british, although he certainly wanted to be!) A cat is generally more "composer-friendly", as they require less attention...

I have to say, FieryAngel (Hooray for Prokofiev!) is very right in his observations about Williams being a better composer than Jerry Goldsmith from the point of view of technique. I also think that Williams' scores from the last fifteen years are some of his strongest, and I find it exiting that he seems to have somewhat bridged the gap between his concert and film music; they generally have a tendency to share idioms now. Again, I love Goldsmith, but my musicianship and training and experience as a composer compels me to state, given the objective of this poll, that Williams is undoubtedly a better composer, and in my opinion also a better film composer.

I share that sentiment, Mark... Unfortunately for the film series, what little I've heard of the new composer's has been very unimpressive. It's a lost cause now...

They are both phenomenal, of course! And far, far superior to most of their colleagues, living or dead, and in the world of film and concert music! Still, Williams is a more accomplished composer, technically, and his other musical qualities render him an obvious candidate for "The Greatest Composer Of The Lats Hundred Years", which sounds awkwardly competitive and deeply silly. And he would perhaps tie with Dmitri Shostakovich. And maybe Maurice Ravel. God, I'm being very juvenile (and I'm loving it). Not that Jerry Goldsmith wasn't magnificent, -he was divine!