The "Next Williams"?

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

The Omen and Potergeist are great, but I concider neither even nearly great films. I don't know Basic Instinct, but don't think the film is great, and I respectfully disagree with the films scoring community about PoTA.  

And I think I've made it clear that he's done many great scores for lesser films.

I don't get it... you don't think much of these scores, but you say The Phantom Menace is great.

Hector - puzzled

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Indeed.

:roll:

[Morlock 11]

Planet Of The Apes IS a brilliant score, you just lack what it takes to appriciate it.

And it's a well known fact that Williams tends to score films that are held in higher regard then Goldsmith.

But i think Goldsmith's style of scoring, especially in the 70's and 80's was more innovative, and has influenced many composrrs of the new generation.

Especially his action writing.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't really know the score. But from just listening to it, I hear an innovative percussion and electronic score, but aside from one cue, an unlistenable score. I still am unable to call a score great that I can't listen to it.

I don't get it... you don't think much of these scores, but you say The Phantom Menace is great.

Hector - puzzled

Score- I was only talking about PoTA. and TPM is great, and brilliant, and innovative, though there just doesn't happen to be any other films and film music that work like Star Wars.

It's not like I said Goldsmith was crap, my ONLY point is that his exposure to the public is almost non-exsistant, especialy when compared to Williams. And I am looking for all the scores Goldsmith fans say are great, I would like to be able to speak with more authority about his scores.

[A24 4,338]

You look upon a score as an seperate entity. But there are more ways to judge a score. A score can also be brilliant in partnership with the film. Good music doesn't necessary means a good score. A great listen doesn't mean it automatically does wonders for the movie, or vice versa.

----------------

Alex Cremers

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

, I hear an innovative percussion and electronic score,

Then you must be hearing something that I do'nt hear, since POTA is completely acoustic

It's not like I said Goldsmith was crap, my ONLY point is that his exposure to the public is almost non-exsistant,

Like just about every other BRILLIANT film composer, except John Williams (and right now Howard Shore, cause he's touring the globe with his LOTR symphony)

especialy when compared to Williams. And I am looking for all the scores Goldsmith fans say are great, I would like to be able to speak with more authority about his scores.

What do you have at the moment?

[Sandor 797]

Who the hell wrote this??? I´M Roald, and I didn´t write this.

I think that with "the next John Williams" it is clearly meant the next household name, the next composer who is generally regarded as the most prolific, the most famous of all film composers.

Nowadays; that position is clearly held by John Williams.

The "next John Williams" could be a totally different composer, but who shares Williams popularity.  

I think this is what the Director meant in the first place.

My vote goes to James Horner who is, after Titanic, already halfway there.

Bye,

Roald

[Morlock 11]

I'll just stop, as I know less about what I was talking about than I thought.

especialy when compared to Williams. And I am looking for all the scores Goldsmith fans say are great, I would like to be able to speak with more authority about his scores.

What do you have at the moment?

Here is the more or less complete rundown on what I have, Goldsmith wise (it is more or less chronoligical, but backwards).

My current favorites are pointed out, but a lot of the scores I've yet to really listen to cohesively:

Looney Toons

Timeline

Star Trek: Nemesis

The Sum of All Fears

13th Warrior

Star Trek: Insurrection

Small Soldiers

Mulan

-L.A. Confidential

-Air Force One (Complete)

Star Trek: First Contact (Complete)

First Knight

-Rudy

Total Recall

Gremlins II

Star Trek V

-Lionheart (volume 1 & 2)

Supergirl

-Twighlight Zone

Gremlins

Rambo

Poltergeist

-The Final Conflict

-Star Trek: TMP

-Damien: Omen II

-The Omen

I have a lot of the following:

The Mummy

The Edge

Congo

Tora! Tora! Tora!

-Patton

And I have the Goldsmith at Fox set and a selecion of themes.

[Lurker 5]

I can't believe my eyes! With all of the discussion of Goldsmith in this thread and whether or not the public recognizes his music and not a single mention of his theme to Star Trek - The Motion Picture.

Who the hell wrote this??? I´M Roald, and I didn´t write this.

I think that with "the next John Williams" it is clearly meant the next household name, the next composer who is generally regarded as the most prolific, the most famous of all film composers.

Nowadays; that position is clearly held by John Williams.

The "next John Williams" could be a totally different composer, but who shares Williams popularity.  

I think this is what the Director meant in the first place.

My vote goes to James Horner who is, after Titanic, already halfway there.

Bye,

Roald

Roald, can't you remember what you wrote on May 23, 2002 at 11:37 AM?

Neil

[Sandor 797]

Roald, can't you remember what you wrote on May 23, 2002 at 11:37 AM?  

Neil

ooopps, i didn´t see that post was from 2002..! i guess i did wrote it way back then. my mistake, sorry for shakin´up the universe...!

[Lurker 5]

Roald, can't you remember what you wrote on May 23, 2002 at 11:37 AM?  

Neil

ooopps, i didn´t see that post was from 2002..! i guess i did wrote it way back then. my mistake, sorry for shakin´up the universe...!

More importantly......HI ROALD!!!!

Nice to see you here again!

Neil

[Morlock 11]

yeah... I mean, 3 posts in the same thread!

[Hector J. Guzman 1]

For me, the score for Star Trek: The Motion Picture is a "landmark" in film scoring, the thing that most people don't give it enough credit it's becuase it's association with the commercial Star Trek.

I don't get it... you don't think much of these scores, but you say The Phantom Menace is great.

Hector - puzzled

Score- I was only talking about PoTA. and TPM is great, and brilliant, and innovative, though there just doesn't happen to be any other films and film music that work like Star Wars.

It's not like I said Goldsmith was crap, my ONLY point is that his exposure to the public is almost non-exsistant, especialy when compared to Williams. And I am looking for all the scores Goldsmith fans say are great, I would like to be able to speak with more authority about his scores.

Well, I also did not say The Phantom Menace is crap, and I do not share your view that it is an innovative brilliant score. While it has its distinctive "Duel of the Fates", it's just an average score by Williams. He has done better work, including the superior Angela's Ashes from the same year.

Further more usually the thing that exposes film music are main themes and songs, and in the case of Jerry, his march for Patton is often played in college football games, his theme for Rudy and other themes are played in sporting events on television more than other composer. Williams' music is almost non existant in these things.

[Morlock 11]

First of all, I've heard Williams a number of times in Football games, but I can't say I've seen enough to know what usualy happens.

Second- I know that internationaly Williams is almost for sure the person you're gonna hear. The World Cup, regular soccer games, the European Basketball League use Williams often. And Milosovich used The Imperial March a lot in his propoganda movies.

And like people don't understand why I don't see more in certain Goldsmith scores, I for the life of me don't understand why more people don't see more in TPM. Duel of the Fates and Anakin's Theme are the shell, there's so much more inside.

And how do you see ST:TMP as a landmark in film scoring? (No tone to it, I'm really wondering)

and BTW- what is your sig about exactly?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

And how do you see ST:TMP as a landmark in film scoring?

because its the greatest movie score of all time.

[Morlock 11]

All righty then.

[Lurker 5]

And how do you see ST:TMP as a landmark in film scoring?

because its the greatest movie score of all time.

One of them at least. It's an astonishing work that totally transcends the film for which it was written. I'd love to know what inspired Goldsmith so much for this score.

Neil

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

because its the greatest movie score of all time.

You're forever banned, see you at http://www.jerrygoldsmithonline.com/.

Ray Barnsbury

[King Mark 3,631]

I for the life of me don't understand why more people don't see more in TPM. Duel of the Fates and Anakin's Theme are the shell, there's so much more inside.

 

Well,i agree with that post.One of the reasons I obsessed with having every second of unreleased TPM score I could get is that i think it's all brilliant.TPM is among the relatively few scores I like to listen to from start to finish.

and i might be the only one who thinks DotF is actually the weakest part of it (at least the concert arrangement)

K.M.

[Morlock 11]

And how do you see ST:TMP as a landmark in film scoring?

because its the greatest movie score of all time.

One of them at least. It's an astonishing work that totally transcends the film for which it was written. I'd love to know what inspired Goldsmith so much for this score.

Neil

Did anyone here write a thesis or something on why it's so great? I love it, but I just don't see how it's such a landmark. I am genuinly interested in why people love it to such a degree.

[King Mark 3,631]

Me too,i mean some cues are really outstanding,but there are portions of it which i find a drag to listen to on c.d.,like all the cloud and v'ger music in the second half of the movie,it sounds all the same.Plus the blaster beam gets irritating after a while.I don't think it's great from start to finish like Williams ESB or Superman or Raider's for example.

K.M.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

ST: TMP is a great score but I dont consider it to be one of the greatest scores of all time, nor among the best Goldsmith works. The man has plenty better IMO.

[Justin 2]

Incorrect acctually.

While I agree with Neil it's definatly better than 95% of the Williams scores. There are just a few Williams scores that I think are better. Still this is the only non-Williams score to be in my top 5. High praise indeed.

Justin -Wondering if Joe ranks TMP above E.T.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

and i might be the only one who thinks DotF is actually the weakest part of it (at least the concert arrangement)

K.M.

For me, DotF is the weakest Star Wars theme written thus far, however if judged outside the context of the SW, it's brilliant and I'm obsessed with it; man it's so hair-raising. It just doesn't fit well within sequel score. So doesn't Across the Stars, but then again, it's an absolutely gorgeous theme that would fit elsewhere perfectly, such as in Angela's Ashes or even some melodrama. But it must be the lite nature of the prequel films that inspires such themes in JW. But I'd stress again that the two are only relatively "weak" -- meaqning in the context of SW original music. On the other hand, Anakin's Theme sounds to me as pure Star Wars embryo material and I'm not getting at the altered Imperial March motif.

[Morlock 11]

I've been litening to it, and I still don't understand the amount of praise the scores gets. It has the main theme, one of the greatest ever, it has Ilia's theme, a beautiful theme, and some great battle music for the Klingons. I don't see why that is enough to make it the best score ever.

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

What is the name of the soft, longing , almost a love theme from Star Trek TMP? If I were to get the score, I would for this one particular motif. I'm sure Goldsmith wrote it and I realized how beautiful that theme is when I recently watched The River Wild where that TPM "love theme" echoes throughout a number of times, so it reminded me of that. If I'm not mistaken, this theme I'm looking for is never heard in Horner's continuation.

Thanks.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Ilia's Theme

[Morlock 11]

Ilia's Theme.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

That's what I said.

[Morlock 11]

Like less then a minute before me.

[Lurker 5]

there are portions of it which i find a drag to listen to on c.d.,like all the cloud and v'ger music in the second half of the movie,it sounds all the same.

Now you see, that's some of my favorite stuff from the score. Sometimes I just listen to all 4 V'ger cues in a row:

Meet Vejur

The Cloud

Vejur Flyover

The Force Field

Just an amazing use of the orchestra and to me, with the exception of "Meet Vejur", nonw of it even sounds like typical "movie music".

Neil

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Roald, can't you remember what you wrote on May 23, 2002 at 11:37 AM?  

Neil

ooopps, i didn´t see that post was from 2002..! i guess i did wrote it way back then. my mistake, sorry for shakin´up the universe...!

I clearly remember reading that post, it was the day after my birthday.

Stefancos- who thought Roald was dead...or married.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I agree with Neil, as utterly brilliant as cues as The Enterprise and Ilia's theme are, it is the oppressive underscore for the scenes inside Vejur that make this score one of the best soundtracks ever composed.

It's epic, dark, religious, frightening (moreso then his Omen scores) and creates a perfect soundscape for both the film, and your imagination.

Just listen to this music with your eyes closed.

The complete score for TMP is indeed better then about 99% of everything that has ever been scored for film.

Even if Goldsmith had never composed a score before or after this, he would still be among the giants.

Jerry Goldsmith and John Williams are the true film composers, the rest is just playing at it.....

[Oskar 77]

I agree with Neil, as utterly brilliant as cues as The Enterprise and Ilia's theme are, it is the oppressive underscore for the scenes inside Vejur that make this score one of the best soundtracks ever composed.

It's epic, dark, religious, frightening (moreso then his Omen scores) and creates a perfect soundscape for both the film, and your imagination.

Just listen to this music with your eyes closed.

Couldn´t agree more. The V´ger music is simply astounding.

I never tire of listening to that beautiful section of music

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The score is even better with the "unreleased" Captain's Log and Warp Point 8 and Warp Point 9 cues.

[Oskar 77]

That´s interesting

Are those cues rippable from the DVD?

SFX free?

[Lurker 5]

That´s interesting

Are those cues rippable from the DVD?

SFX free?

You can get a very clean recording of the Captain's Log cue from the DVD, in the sequence where Decker and the Ilia probe are on the rec deck.

Or there may be other alternatives....

Neil

[Yoda Longbottom 0]

The complete score for TMP is indeed better then about 99% of everything that has ever been scored for film.

I hope LOTR fans watchfully listen now...

[Lurker 5]

The complete score for TMP is indeed better then about 99% of everything that has ever been scored for film.

I hope LOTR fans watchfully listen now...

Steef is a LOTR fan.

Neil

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Stefan is THE LOTR fan.

Well at least on this board. Nothing wrong with that though. If there is a new movie series of the past handful of years to be a fan of that would be it. Especially with the downfall of the Matrix series.

Anyway I still say Goldsmith's best overall score is either Patton (which PERFECTLY captures the persona of the man) or The Wind and The Lion.

[Morlock 11]

Ren is also a big LoTR fan. Though she hasn't been around lately.

My current Goldsmith favorite is Lionheart. That score really needs to be more well known, it's so magnificent ('King Richard' is possibly my favorite Goldsmith track ever, certainly one of the top 5).

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Ren is also a big LoTR fan. Though she hasn't been around lately.

 

 My current Goldsmith favorite is Lionheart. That score really needs to be more well known, it's so magnificent ('King Richard' is possibly my favorite Goldsmith track ever, certainly one of the top 5).

Oh yeah Lionheart!

Man I love that score too!

So many great Goldsmith scores.

[Justin 2]

Anyway I still say Goldsmith's best overall score is either Patton (which PERFECTLY captures the persona of the man) or The Wind and The Lion.

If two Goldsmith scores could be better than TMP it would Patton or The Wind and The Lion.

Of course they aren't but it's a nice thought.

1. Star Trek: The Motion Picture

2. Patton

3. The Wind and The Lion

Justin

[Morlock 11]

I really don't know The Wind and The Lion at all. If you don't mind sharing.....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Score...recovers/files/

Download the zip file named The Wind And The Lion sample.zip

[Morlock 11]

Sounds fantastic. Yet another thing I won't have for a very long time.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

YOU NEED TO GET THAT SCORE MORLOCK!!!

That is like Goldsmith'd 2nd best score IMO and an absolute classic.

[Morlock 11]

I'm always interested in a trade...

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Hmmmm perhaps we can do business again in the future. I will be in touch.