Quintus 5,399 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Lets face it, he writes melodies of Doom (not literally my literal friends). Paul McCartney, Elton John, Justin Timberlake... These great pretenders have nothing on the godlike hook writing ability of the real master. And no I don't mean Timbaland (huh? You say). John Williams could've made an absolute fortune if he'd have partnered up with the big hitters of the pop music industry, as the guy who writes great melodies to which someone like Bernie Taupin (Elton John's lyricist) writes the lyrics. It would've been win win win. Surely I am correct? At least in theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm just not sure his vocal music is as strong as his full-fledged orchestral one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 But as a writer of melodies...The word fundamental springs to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Meh.I'm confident Mr. Williams has provided quite well for himself writing film scores and conducting concerts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 11, 2008 Author Share Posted March 11, 2008 Again, that's not really my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgaFlippinMan 7 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Lets face it, he writes melodies of Doom (not literally my literal friends). Paul McCartney, Elton John, Justin Timberlake... These great pretenders have nothing on the godlike hook writing ability of the real master. And no I don't mean Timbaland (huh? You say). John Williams could've made an absolute fortune if he'd have partnered up with the big hitters of the pop music industry, as the guy who writes great melodies to which someone like Bernie Taupin (Elton John's lyricist) writes the lyrics. It would've been win win win. Surely I am correct? At least in theory!Paul McCartney and John Lennon deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Williams at the very least! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I'm just not sure his vocal music is as strong as his full-fledged orchestral one.That's right. Most of Williams's songs aren't very melodically strong ("Can You Read My Mind?" is an exception). Williams writes melodies best for the orchestra, not the voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Well, pop music is constantly aiming for the beauty of simplicity - how a few chords, or even a few notes can stir the listener. Same for the its lyrics - even most of Bernie Taupin's lyrics are direct, simple, and to the point (and most of the time, it isn't that of an original point -" Your Song" - although that doesn't deprive the product of its merit and beauty - again, "Your Song"-). We did have electro-pop in the 80's which aimed for a more complex approach but it didn't age well.John Williams, I think, thrives in complexity. In deceitfully simple (Raiders March, Imperial March, Superman March...) melodies that will attract your guts and garner a reaction from you. But then behind that emotional connection there's an intricate set of musical rules that, though twisted, they are being followed. Sure, Williams could write pop music but is that really what he is all for? The ability to write beautiful melodes, which he does, has nothing to do with the ability to churn out perfect products for a whole different genre. Then again, we'll never know, will we?It's just like a good non-fiction author or even a poet don't have to be good novelists just because they have the ability to describe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Meh.I'm confident Mr. Williams has provided quite well for himself writing film scores and conducting concerts.I'm not so sure. I saw him drinking turpentine out of a brown paper bag the other day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 Lets face it, he writes melodies of Doom (not literally my literal friends). Paul McCartney, Elton John, Justin Timberlake... These great pretenders have nothing on the godlike hook writing ability of the real master. And no I don't mean Timbaland (huh? You say). John Williams could've made an absolute fortune if he'd have partnered up with the big hitters of the pop music industry, as the guy who writes great melodies to which someone like Bernie Taupin (Elton John's lyricist) writes the lyrics. It would've been win win win. Surely I am correct? At least in theory!I'd say he could. Although I doubt he'd be writing for the likes of Britney Spears, Beyonce etc etc. Probably more along the line of Jazz music, Celine Dion or more adult contemporary music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hitch 57 Posted March 11, 2008 Share Posted March 11, 2008 I don't think John's pacemaker could be up to the challenge of todays prima donnas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric_JWFAN 11 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Well, pop music is constantly aiming for the beauty of simplicity - how a few chords, or even a few notes can stir the listener. Same for the its lyrics - even most of Bernie Taupin's lyrics are direct, simple, and to the point (and most of the time, it isn't that of an original point -" Your Song" - although that doesn't deprive the product of its merit and beauty - again, "Your Song"-). We did have electro-pop in the 80's which aimed for a more complex approach but it didn't age well.John Williams, I think, thrives in complexity. In deceitfully simple (Raiders March, Imperial March, Superman March...) melodies that will attract your guts and garner a reaction from you. But then behind that emotional connection there's an intricate set of musical rules that, though twisted, they are being followed. Sure, Williams could write pop music but is that really what he is all for? The ability to write beautiful melodes, which he does, has nothing to do with the ability to churn out perfect products for a whole different genre. Then again, we'll never know, will we?It's just like a good non-fiction author or even a poet don't have to be good novelists just because they have the ability to describe.My thoughts exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maglorfin 196 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 And mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 Lets face it, he writes melodies of Doom (not literally my literal friends). Paul McCartney, Elton John, Justin Timberlake... These great pretenders have nothing on the godlike hook writing ability of the real master. And no I don't mean Timbaland (huh? You say). John Williams could've made an absolute fortune if he'd have partnered up with the big hitters of the pop music industry, as the guy who writes great melodies to which someone like Bernie Taupin (Elton John's lyricist) writes the lyrics. It would've been win win win. Surely I am correct? At least in theory!surely you didn't put Paul McCartney in there, how retarded.He is as much a genius as John Williams but of a different sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 And I thought most people didn't like Williams' songs. JW could have made more money doing that, but it's apparent that he chose the path that he most enjoyed (and wanted to do). I'd much rather have the man doing what he most wants to do artistically making less money than a bland machine churning out songs for labels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 There are great song writers, and there are great non-song writers. Perhaps there are even people who are both, but Williams is only one of the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted March 12, 2008 Author Share Posted March 12, 2008 Well, pop music is constantly aiming for the beauty of simplicity - how a few chords, or even a few notes can stir the listener. Same for the its lyrics - even most of Bernie Taupin's lyrics are direct, simple, and to the point (and most of the time, it isn't that of an original point -" Your Song" - although that doesn't deprive the product of its merit and beauty - again, "Your Song"-). We did have electro-pop in the 80's which aimed for a more complex approach but it didn't age well.John Williams, I think, thrives in complexity. In deceitfully simple (Raiders March, Imperial March, Superman March...) melodies that will attract your guts and garner a reaction from you. But then behind that emotional connection there's an intricate set of musical rules that, though twisted, they are being followed. Sure, Williams could write pop music but is that really what he is all for? The ability to write beautiful melodes, which he does, has nothing to do with the ability to churn out perfect products for a whole different genre. Then again, we'll never know, will we?It's just like a good non-fiction author or even a poet don't have to be good novelists just because they have the ability to describe.Exactly the response I was looking for when I thought of this topic. surely you didn't put Paul McCartney in there, how retarded.He is as much a genius as John Williams but of a different sort.Um, I thought the addition of Justin Timberlake and the would've highlighted my deliberate sarcasm. Apparently not, my literal thinking friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted March 12, 2008 Share Posted March 12, 2008 I don't see how syncopated flute and xylophone runs would work in pop music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 Everything can work in pop music, and it doesn't have to be simple or simplified. It just often is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 I don't see how syncopated flute and xylophone runs would work in pop music.Give Rufus Wainwright some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AI 0 Posted March 13, 2008 Share Posted March 13, 2008 No, he would have likely failed as a songwriter.His skills lie elsewhere, not in the pop area, and pop is the only way that songwriters can make a lot money. To be a successful songwriter, you need to either, play in a band that has an edge, or be a music producer that knows all the tricks of contemporary pop. There are a few songwriters that make hundreds of millions of dollars, like Diane Warren, but for every one of her, there are about ten million songwriters that don't make a cent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted March 14, 2008 Share Posted March 14, 2008 I don't see how syncopated flute and xylophone runs would work in pop music.Give Rufus Wainwright some time.And as for the flutes: Jethro Tull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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