Revenge of the Sith 3 years later

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I have been watching movies on dvd lately from my collection, setting up a summer movie feel.

I started with Star Wars Ep. III Revenge of the Sith, the 6th film of Star Wars.

First I was amazed at how much underscoring there is in this movie.

Pieces of music lifted from the first 5 Star Wars.

Pieces of music lifted from ET as well. Much of the non thematic film scoring is quite good, as is any lifted from Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back, not so good from TPM, and horrid from AOTC.

Second the movie is much worse than I remembered. I had said the first half was unwatchable and that opinion hasn't changed. The first 45 minutes are so bad as to be among the some of the worst movie making of this decade. It is AOTC bad if not worse. I struggle over two nights to get through it.

Some would say that visually this film is STUNNING. I would wholeheartedly disagree. There is so much going on in each frame, you have to wonder if Lucas was standing behind the special effects crew in a leather harness, a cod piece and black hip boots with high heels beating them with a whip screaming more, more while Christopher Walkens voice blared over the loud speaker we need more cowbell.

Any chance that there is a coherent story in ROTS is buried under tons of flat looking effects. The talk in another thread about 3D immersion of the audience doesn't happen in this movie. There is no life within it. Yoda looks like a cartoon.

Character and plot development are dependent on the effects, or should I say the effects cover up the fact that there is no character development.

The acting is atrocious, which is a shame because all 3 principal actors have been good in other rolls. Portman has more changes of cloths than a Cher concert. Her character is so annoying that when she dies you can only be thankful. Alec Guinness was so good in a small film called Star Wars in 1977, and so grounded his character, that its nearly impossible to find any connection between that character and the Ewen McGregor Obi Wan. Its hard to fathom that they are playing younger and older versions, its more like two completely different characters.

Poor Hayden Christiansen gets so much blame, but Anakin Skywalker is such a badly drawn character, and Lucas gives no proper direction blame falls on the director Lucas and not Hayden. What happened to the character director Lucas was in American Graffiti and Star Wars(don't tell me he wasn't a character director then, despite the great effects and the gloss, Star Wars was Luke, Leia, and Han). Its been 3 years George, find a script and do a 6 million dollar character driven movie with no effects, then you'll understand why this "film" is so terrible. Also remember that the original Star Wars fans arn't fans of the hyper editing styles of today. Thats just a trend for limpid attention spans

Technology hurt this film. It allowed Lucas to bring out his worst tendencies. Instead of relying on his actors and his stories, he relied upon technology. When you should have been saying less you were saying more. Yes I'm a Star Wars purist(Star Wars rules), but I don't think any of my real complaints can be ignored about this movie. Yes it has some things that work, there are a few scenes that have substance and power. There is a real sense of horror when Anakin ignites his light saber among the younglings. And anytime you can here Leia's theme played on the big screen surely cancels out the ear damage by the "first ever Star Wars love theme" and while inappropriate and unnecessary, I enjoyed listening to the Throne room again in rich dolby sound. But thats not worth the cost of a movie ticket, nor was the time spent on this movie.

[Henry B 50]

The movie sucks ass.

[Morlock 11]

It has three things I liked (The score, the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and the drawing of Yoda as a bad guy). Certainly a bad movie, though.

[Ollie 1,059]

The sad thing is I actually find it better than ROTJ, with the exception of Williams music.

I think you nailed it Joe, even Samual Jackson comes across as flat and reads his lines with such blandness.

I agree, Lucas got carried away with the technology and forgot what made Star Wars and Empire work.

For the subject matter contained within the last two prequels films Lucas should have turned the directing for Clones and Sith over to someone else.

I still don't believe for one moment that Padme was in love with Anakin and his fall from good is pathetic. The whole clone war story line makes no sense whatsoever.

[Maglorfin 196]

There definitely is some truth in what has been written here, but for me, RotS is still the best of the "prequel trilogy".

[Ollie 1,059]

The Phantom Menace was the only one that truly felt like a Star Wars film.

[Henry B 50]

Correct.

[Morlock 11]

Indeed. It didn't feel like a synthesized digital universe. Didn't feel plastic. And Neeson and MacGregor did seem to get into their roles.

[Ollie 1,059]

And I'll say this, something happened to Williams' mindset for scoring these films after Menace.

You can hear it in the music. The difference between the conveyor belt music for Minority Report and Clones, which were both released that same summer, proved it for me. MR's action cues sound like vintage enthused Williams while Clone's conveyor belt music sounds like Williams going thru the motions.

[indy4 155]

Second the movie is much worse than I remembered. I had said the first half was unwatchable and that opinion hasn't changed. The first 45 minutes are so bad as to be among the some of the worst movie making of this decade. It is AOTC bad if not worse. I struggle over two nights to get through it.

I fail to see what's wrong with the beggining. There is an exciting battle as an opening, a daring rescue mission, a cool saber battle. Not sure how far the 45 minutes mark goes, but the stuff afterwards is not bad either.

Some would say that visually this film is STUNNING. I would wholeheartedly disagree. There is so much going on in each frame, you have to wonder if Lucas was standing behind the special effects crew in a leather harness, a cod piece and black hip boots with high heels beating them with a whip screaming more, more while Christopher Walkens voice blared over the loud speaker we need more cowbell.

The effects are not bad at all. The opening battle looked great. I am not going to say they were bad just because there are a lot of them. Still, the OT had much better with all the minatures, but these were certainly good enough. Besides, SFX have never been a big concern of mine when watching a movie.

Any chance that there is a coherent story in ROTS is buried under tons of flat looking effects. The talk in another thread about 3D immersion of the audience doesn't happen in this movie. There is no life within it. Yoda looks like a cartoon.

The story is an INCREDIBLY strong point, the strongest point of the film. I'm sorry if you do not get it, but it isn't that difficult to embrace. Lucas' story is amazing, for all six Star Wars films. And about Yoda, like I said earlier, SFX were never a huge concern of mine.

Character and plot development are dependent on the effects, or should I say the effects cover up the fact that there is no character development.

Anakin and Obi-wan go from best friends to enemies. That's character development. Anakin switches from the good side to the bad. I understand that beyond that, there's little character development. But keep in mind that these characters have been developing over the course of two other films, and most of them have established themselves at this point, with the obvious exception of Anakin.

The acting is atrocious, which is a shame because all 3 principal actors have been good in other rolls. Portman has more changes of cloths than a Cher concert. Her character is so annoying that when she dies you can only be thankful. Alec Guinness was so good in a small film called Star Wars in 1977, and so grounded his character, that its nearly impossible to find any connection between that character and the Ewen McGregor Obi Wan. Its hard to fathom that they are playing younger and older versions, its more like two completely different characters.

While I think the McGregor/Guiness connection can be seen, I agree the acting is not quite on par as the OT. Lucas has lost his talent to direct actors, but that does not change the fact that his story is gold.

Poor Hayden Christiansen gets so much blame, but Anakin Skywalker is such a badly drawn character, and Lucas gives no proper direction blame falls on the director Lucas and not Hayden. What happened to the character director Lucas was in American Graffiti and Star Wars(don't tell me he wasn't a character director then, despite the great effects and the gloss, Star Wars was Luke, Leia, and Han). Its been 3 years George, find a script and do a 6 million dollar character driven movie with no effects, then you'll understand why this "film" is so terrible. Also remember that the original Star Wars fans arn't fans of the hyper editing styles of today. Thats just a trend for limpid attention spans

I agree with that. He was fantastic in Broken Glass.

But I'd also like to refute the claim that this films has no good dialouge (though it wasn't in Joe's post). The whole "I am the Senate" deal was great, as was "You were the chosen one!" and tons of other great lines.

[Henry B 50]

How are "I am the Senate" and "You were the chosen one" great lines?

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I strongly disagree with all the above posts (except for those of Indy IV) but I would agree with anyone suggesting the above posters may be in need of a change in nocturnal activities to relieve stress which is clearly disrupting your thinking patterns.

Reminder:

George Lucas

[tpigeon 3]

Amazing, what effect these movies have on people. In fan cultures (and I don't mean just fans of Star Wars), there is no ambiguity. You either love these movies or you hate them.

Ted

[indy4 155]

How are "I am the Senate" and "You were the chosen one" great lines?

Sorry, not "I am the Senate," the whole "Anakin's Dark Deeds" scene. ("The Republic will be reorganized into...)

And "you were the chosen one" is just great.

[Hlao-roo 389]

And I'll say this, something happened to Williams' mindset for scoring these films after Menace.

You can hear it in the music. The difference between the conveyor belt music for Minority Report and Clones, which were both released that same summer, proved it for me. MR's action cues sound like vintage enthused Williams while Clone's conveyor belt music sounds like Williams going thru the motions.

I'm not sure about this supposed change in mindset. The centerpiece action cues of the two films -- "The Chase through Coruscant" and "Anderton's Great Escape" -- are both strong in their opening minutes (although the latter suffers from being thematically derivative) before dissipating into tedious concatenations of hackneyed latter-day Williams action licks.

[Trent Hoyt 13]

I strongly disagree with all the above posts (except for those of Indy IV) but I would agree with anyone suggesting the above posters may be in need of a change in nocturnal activities to relieve stress which is clearly disrupting your thinking patterns.

Reminder:

George Lucas

Its true that you either love em or you hate em. I love em.

A discussion on the score would be less polarizing than this thread is becoming.

[Trent B 337]

That's just your opinion Joe, I for one don't agree with (though some here do). Grant we tend to view movies differently as we get older especially ones like Star Wars. I have some problems with the not only the Prequels but the Original Trilogy too but in the end I just sit back and enjoy the movies for what they are, just movies...

No point in really keep on saying you hate the Prequels too... most of us all ready know that and I know most here generally don't like the Prequels as a whole.

[tpigeon 3]

Parts of all three prequels are fairly good, and parts of all three prequels are cringeworthy. On the whole, I enjoy the movies. At their best, they do what the originals did best, and that is cast a transportive spell. Morlock's points may be the most interesting though. The Phantom Menace did not seem plastic. Its sense of the universe was very much in-line with the original films, and I don't mean in-line in terms of details. I mean that when you look up at those stars in the scene in which Anakin and Qui-Gon talk about them, you feel there are actual solar systems and planets and civilizations. That's what I've always loved about the Star Wars films-- the activity of it all; the feeling that we're only seeing a small part of this story and universe, that there is so much going on.

With the latter two prequels, Lucas seemed to try to do everything and jump all around this world. In doing so, he lost the magic of it. He frenetically cut from scene to scene and showed us more worlds with each film, all the while not realizing that great storytelling is never about more of anything. That said, there are passages in both Clones and Sith that are quite good, and that contain a remnant of that subtle (yes, subtle) magic that Star Wars was about. You may have to loosen up your hatred of these films to see these moments, but they're there.

Ted

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Sorry Vosk, I don't buy that weak line they are just movies, they are much more, or in the case of Revenge of the Sith much less. Movies represent culture, ways of life, indeed they are many peoples livelyhood, and an entertainment form for all the world. Yes they are just movies, but this is a film score and movie discussion board, you're last line is wholly inappropriate here.

Indy 4, you have such undecerning taste its hard to explain to you whats wrong with the beginning of the movie, there is such convoluted action but nothing really happens. The opening effects are just flat, no depth, in some ways the clone wars will work better because in a cartoon format there will be less of a need for depth. You admit there are a lot of effects but again who can really tell whats going on, there is no tension, no drama, no excitiment.

You disagree with me on character development, and thats fine but you're just wrong because there is none. There is no development, there is only change, like a light switch being turned on or off. As for the story that you say is amazing? What story. Stuff blows up, bad dialogue is spoken, ie Hold me Anakin like you did on Naboo when there was only our love. :puke: The story is pure gold, Indy 4? What are you thinking. One of the great film revelations of all time, ALL TIME, is now destroyed. Someday there will be generations of movie fans who will never see Star Wars because they will be unable to sit through Star Wars 1,2, & 3, and never get to the one film actually called Star Wars.

You mistake great dialogue for simple tag lines. The backward lines of Yoda were cute in ESB, but just completely annoying here. Then you have the scene where Yoda tells Anakin not to mourn lost ones, yet he himself does just the opposite as the Jedi are slaughtered. Yoda you should be rejoicing for they are now one with the force.

what you see as exciting, daring and cool, I find slow, rediculous, and over the top.

by the way next up in the upcoming days is Temple of Doom.

btw#2, I agree with Mark, TPM is the best of the 3 prequels.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Ah, prequel bashing. A refreshing change of subject from Indy.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Parts of all three prequels are fairly good, and parts of all three prequels are cringeworthy. On the whole, I enjoy the movies. At their best, they do what the originals did best, and that is cast a transportive spell. Morlock's points may be the most interesting though. The Phantom Menace did not seem plastic. Its sense of the universe was very much in-line with the original films, and I don't mean in-line in terms of details. I mean that when you look up at those stars in the scene in which Anakin and Qui-Gon talk about them, you feel there are actual solar systems and planets and civilizations. That's what I've always loved about the Star Wars films-- the activity of it all; the feeling that we're only seeing a small part of this story and universe, that there is so much going on.

With the latter two prequels, Lucas seemed to try to do everything and jump all around this world. In doing so, he lost the magic of it. He frenetically cut from scene to scene and showed us more worlds with each film, all the while not realizing that great storytelling is never about more of anything. That said, there are passages in both Clones and Sith that are quite good, and that contain a remnant of that subtle (yes, subtle) magic that Star Wars was about. You may have to loosen up your hatred of these films to see these moments, but they're there.

Ted

Ted I do that with Sith as mentioned in my original post, I won't waste anymore of my time with Clones to find out.

and Ross, I don't think what Iam doing is random prequel bashing, just a fair analysis of a 3 year old movie that doesn't hold up well.

[tpigeon 3]

Then you have the scene where Yoda tells Anakin not to mourn lost ones, yet he himself does just the opposite as the Jedi are slaughtered. Yoda you should be rejoicing for they are now one with the force.

what you see as exciting, daring and cool, I find slow, rediculous, and over the top.

I hate when viewers expect characters to say and act consistently with any and all previous statements or action, unless it in some ways advances their character or sets up a conflict. Yoda was talking about mourning a loss of a loved one several years ago, one that is consuming Anakin. When the Jedi are being slaughtered in mass fashion, mercilessly and brutally, it's hard to celebrate "their becoming one with the force." Those are very different situations. I'm not sure if you were joking with this example, or not, but it's a pretty for citation for why the movie is ridiculous.

Ted

[ChuckM 1]

I love all the prequels.

There, I said it. Flame me if you will, but that's my opinion.

Sure the acting was a bit corny at times, but (if you'll remember) so were the original three movies.

As for the scores, I have absolutely no problem with them. They are some of Williams' best as far as I'm concerned. Certainly his best recent scores.

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

I have been watching movies on dvd lately from my collection, setting up a summer movie feel.

I started with Star Wars Ep. III Revenge of the Sith, the 6th film of Star Wars.

First I was amazed at how much underscoring there is in this movie.

Pieces of music lifted from the first 5 Star Wars.

Pieces of music lifted from ET as well. Much of the non thematic film scoring is quite good, as is any lifted from Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back, not so good from TPM, and horrid from AOTC.

Second the movie is much worse than I remembered. I had said the first half was unwatchable and that opinion hasn't changed. The first 45 minutes are so bad as to be among the some of the worst movie making of this decade. It is AOTC bad if not worse. I struggle over two nights to get through it.

Some would say that visually this film is STUNNING. I would wholeheartedly disagree. There is so much going on in each frame, you have to wonder if Lucas was standing behind the special effects crew in a leather harness, a cod piece and black hip boots with high heels beating them with a whip screaming more, more while Christopher Walkens voice blared over the loud speaker we need more cowbell.

Any chance that there is a coherent story in ROTS is buried under tons of flat looking effects. The talk in another thread about 3D immersion of the audience doesn't happen in this movie. There is no life within it. Yoda looks like a cartoon.

Character and plot development are dependent on the effects, or should I say the effects cover up the fact that there is no character development.

The acting is atrocious, which is a shame because all 3 principal actors have been good in other rolls. Portman has more changes of cloths than a Cher concert. Her character is so annoying that when she dies you can only be thankful. Alec Guinness was so good in a small film called Star Wars in 1977, and so grounded his character, that its nearly impossible to find any connection between that character and the Ewen McGregor Obi Wan. Its hard to fathom that they are playing younger and older versions, its more like two completely different characters.

Poor Hayden Christiansen gets so much blame, but Anakin Skywalker is such a badly drawn character, and Lucas gives no proper direction blame falls on the director Lucas and not Hayden. What happened to the character director Lucas was in American Graffiti and Star Wars(don't tell me he wasn't a character director then, despite the great effects and the gloss, Star Wars was Luke, Leia, and Han). Its been 3 years George, find a script and do a 6 million dollar character driven movie with no effects, then you'll understand why this "film" is so terrible. Also remember that the original Star Wars fans arn't fans of the hyper editing styles of today. Thats just a trend for limpid attention spans

Technology hurt this film. It allowed Lucas to bring out his worst tendencies. Instead of relying on his actors and his stories, he relied upon technology. When you should have been saying less you were saying more. Yes I'm a Star Wars purist(Star Wars rules), but I don't think any of my real complaints can be ignored about this movie. Yes it has some things that work, there are a few scenes that have substance and power. There is a real sense of horror when Anakin ignites his light saber among the younglings. And anytime you can here Leia's theme played on the big screen surely cancels out the ear damage by the "first ever Star Wars love theme" and while inappropriate and unnecessary, I enjoyed listening to the Throne room again in rich dolby sound. But thats not worth the cost of a movie ticket, nor was the time spent on this movie.

Bravo Joey. The Star Wars prequels are all terrible.

When a film is filled with worse acting, dialogue and camp than that of offenders like Superman III and Supergirl, you know you are in trouble. Fanboys out there can kiss my a*se whilst I pretend to actually be interested in what you have to say. You should be ashamed of yourselves. This is where I draw the line between opinion, and unhealthy obsession in anything Lucas bound. It's both embarrassing and insulting towards fans of the vastly superior originals.

[Salacius 7]

Oh hell, I'm alone in this but screw it:

I thought Revenge of the Sith was an awesome movie, the most true to the Star Wars Universe out of the three attempts. No more star trek type of sorroundings, all crafts were old and used like they were supposed to be in the SW universe.

Dark, Heavy, Fast, The Emperor was incredible. The descent in the the dark side was perfect and brutal. The saber fights were just unreal.

I would give that film 11 out of 10 if it wasn't for the daft 'NooOOooOOOooo' from Vader in the end of the film so it will have to be a moderate 10/10

I wish the other two would have been taken as seriously as Revenge of the Sith. I can't stop watching it.

As for the score I did feel it sounded tired. It fitted the film perfectly but it's second rate Williams with watery orchestration and production.

Saying that I do love some of the ques.

I have been watching movies on dvd lately from my collection, setting up a summer movie feel.

I started with Star Wars Ep. III Revenge of the Sith, the 6th film of Star Wars.

First I was amazed at how much underscoring there is in this movie.

Pieces of music lifted from the first 5 Star Wars.

Pieces of music lifted from ET as well. Much of the non thematic film scoring is quite good, as is any lifted from Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back, not so good from TPM, and horrid from AOTC.

Second the movie is much worse than I remembered. I had said the first half was unwatchable and that opinion hasn't changed. The first 45 minutes are so bad as to be among the some of the worst movie making of this decade. It is AOTC bad if not worse. I struggle over two nights to get through it.

Some would say that visually this film is STUNNING. I would wholeheartedly disagree. There is so much going on in each frame, you have to wonder if Lucas was standing behind the special effects crew in a leather harness, a cod piece and black hip boots with high heels beating them with a whip screaming more, more while Christopher Walkens voice blared over the loud speaker we need more cowbell.

Any chance that there is a coherent story in ROTS is buried under tons of flat looking effects. The talk in another thread about 3D immersion of the audience doesn't happen in this movie. There is no life within it. Yoda looks like a cartoon.

Character and plot development are dependent on the effects, or should I say the effects cover up the fact that there is no character development.

The acting is atrocious, which is a shame because all 3 principal actors have been good in other rolls. Portman has more changes of cloths than a Cher concert. Her character is so annoying that when she dies you can only be thankful. Alec Guinness was so good in a small film called Star Wars in 1977, and so grounded his character, that its nearly impossible to find any connection between that character and the Ewen McGregor Obi Wan. Its hard to fathom that they are playing younger and older versions, its more like two completely different characters.

Poor Hayden Christiansen gets so much blame, but Anakin Skywalker is such a badly drawn character, and Lucas gives no proper direction blame falls on the director Lucas and not Hayden. What happened to the character director Lucas was in American Graffiti and Star Wars(don't tell me he wasn't a character director then, despite the great effects and the gloss, Star Wars was Luke, Leia, and Han). Its been 3 years George, find a script and do a 6 million dollar character driven movie with no effects, then you'll understand why this "film" is so terrible. Also remember that the original Star Wars fans arn't fans of the hyper editing styles of today. Thats just a trend for limpid attention spans

Technology hurt this film. It allowed Lucas to bring out his worst tendencies. Instead of relying on his actors and his stories, he relied upon technology. When you should have been saying less you were saying more. Yes I'm a Star Wars purist(Star Wars rules), but I don't think any of my real complaints can be ignored about this movie. Yes it has some things that work, there are a few scenes that have substance and power. There is a real sense of horror when Anakin ignites his light saber among the younglings. And anytime you can here Leia's theme played on the big screen surely cancels out the ear damage by the "first ever Star Wars love theme" and while inappropriate and unnecessary, I enjoyed listening to the Throne room again in rich dolby sound. But thats not worth the cost of a movie ticket, nor was the time spent on this movie.

Bravo Joey. The Star Wars prequels are all terrible.

When a film is filled with worse acting, dialogue and camp than that of offenders like Superman III and Supergirl, you know you are in trouble. Fanboys out there can kiss my a*se whilst I pretend to actually be interested in what you have to say. You should be ashamed of yourselves. This is where I draw the line between opinion, and unhealthy obsession in anything Lucas bound. It's both embarrassing and insulting towards fans of the vastly superior originals.

Get over your self dude. What pile of crap

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

Get over your self dude. What pile of crap

I'll get over myself... when you kiss my a*se "dude" ok?

[Salacius 7]

Get over your self dude. What pile of crap

I'll get over myself... when you kiss my a*se "dude" ok?

all I can read is 'crap,poop, bla bla blaaaa' duder

[GoldsmithFanatic2000+ 0]

all I can read is 'crap,poop, bla bla blaaaa' duder

Oh poor baby. Got a case of verbal diarrhoea? Why don't you go and ask your mommy to change your diaper. Make sure she doesn't miss your mouth.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Agree 100% with Joe. And after seeing bits of AotC on TV the other day, I can say there's not much of a chance I'll ever sit down and watch the second two prequels again.

[Maestro 147]

I consider Sith the absolute best of the prequels. Granted I agree that the first 45ish minutes are pretty painful. But Anakin's descent into darkness is what makes things ignite! It's like the acting suddenly gets better, the characters get deeper, the conflict more urgent and interesting, the music more powerful and heartbreaking...

The second-half of ROTS, in my opinion, top-notch storytelling on almost every level. I will wholeheartedly agree with much prequel-bashing, I will agree that AOTC is an unwatchable gag-fest, and I will agree that the prequels will never come close to the original trilogy. But ROTS just has some kind of delicious, dark magic. It's a very satisfying ending to a very disappointing trilogy. And it's probably my favorite JW score since AI. So mournful, so tragic - so beautifully somber. It elevates a flawed film, but a film superior to both TPM and AOTC.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Then you have the scene where Yoda tells Anakin not to mourn lost ones, yet he himself does just the opposite as the Jedi are slaughtered. Yoda you should be rejoicing for they are now one with the force.

what you see as exciting, daring and cool, I find slow, rediculous, and over the top.

I hate when viewers expect characters to say and act consistently with any and all previous statements or action, unless it in some ways advances their character or sets up a conflict. Yoda was talking about mourning a loss of a loved one several years ago, one that is consuming Anakin. When the Jedi are being slaughtered in mass fashion, mercilessly and brutally, it's hard to celebrate "their becoming one with the force." Those are very different situations. I'm not sure if you were joking with this example, or not, but it's a pretty for citation for why the movie is ridiculous.

Ted

I don't think Yoda knew exactly what Anakin was talking about, but while I agree they are different situations, the whole idea that Yoda is discussing is rather cruel and nonsensical. The idea that one should not have attachments kind of belittles the idea that one must care at all about anything. The jedi seem to care about honor, duty, freedom, which are fine but attachment to people is wrong? People are more than just things and possession, learn this I think he has not.

[MissPadmé 17]

I love the Prequels too... the memories I have.. watching these films in Cinema with my best friendas is something that will stay forever... and making fun of scenes we thought weren't as great as we thought they sould be.

But we enjoyed the movies... and that's what it is all about with these kinds of films... We didn't take these films to serious.. and I don't feel instulted by George or hmm that he raped my childhood star wars memories..

But then again.. I would have told a complete different story.-. or atleast the story in a different way

If even the Story of Anakin.. then I would have told the fall of ani in Episode I and the rest Ep II and III we would have seen Vader in Action.. and the Clone Wars f.e.

But George wanted to spread Ani's story across three films... and so it was.

[Morlock 11]

The thing that surprised me most about RoTS, pleasantly so, was showing the limitations of Yoda and the other high-Jedi. I felt a strong thread of showing how Yoda expected 'The One' to be a being that he could mold and control. And when there are signs that 'The One' has his own concepts...Yoda has his doubts that he is the chosen one. A rather dark under-current that I was not expecting.

I think that the duel between Anakin and Obi-Wan is excellent in it's physicality, and the finale of it is the only point in the movie where I actually felt the passion of the characters, and it crystalized how lacking the rest of the film was. I felt real emotion on Obi-Wan's part.

I think the movie is inept in showing character or effective story-telling during the vast majority of the time. And they specifically messed up one of the most crucial points in the entire saga- how Anakin goes from "What have I done?" to "I will do anything you say", for no apparant reason. One or two more lines would have done it (even though the scene already looked quite ridicules with the terrible make-up on McDiarmid.....the make-up in general for the prequels is quite terrible).

[tpigeon 3]

Nicely said, Morlock. I thought Obi-Wan's speech at the end contained a surprising amount of emotion. And you're right: it elucidated the fact that through much of the prequels, real, raw emotion like that was nowhere to be seen.

Ted

[AzOutcast 122]

I like the prequels and at the end of the day, I think they bring more good things to the table than bad. With that said, I don't have a hard time understanding where most people are coming from when they say they dislike or even hate Episodes I-III. But that's the beauty of opinion though, isn't it?

[Hlao-roo 389]

I think the movie is inept in showing character or effective story-telling during the vast majority of the time. And they specifically messed up one of the most crucial points in the entire saga- how Anakin goes from "What have I done?" to "I will do anything you say", for no apparant reason.

Empirically, I don't know that there's a requisite time lag between the onset of cognitive dissonance and attitude modification.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

I think the movie is inept in showing character or effective story-telling during the vast majority of the time. And they specifically messed up one of the most crucial points in the entire saga- how Anakin goes from "What have I done?" to "I will do anything you say", for no apparant reason.

Empirically, I don't know that there's a requisite time lag between the onset of cognitive dissonance and attitude modification.

uhm, what???

[tpigeon 3]

What Joe said. Clearly, empirical inquiry and and psychology are not conducive with one another. And yes, I'm aware that empiricism structures cognitive psychology, and psychology as a whole.

Ted

[Trent B 337]

For those of you who are complaining about it here's an idea....quit watching them. Seriously I'm tired seeing all the bashing that goes on at forums especially this one.

[Hlao-roo 389]

What Joe said. Clearly, empirical inquiry and and psychology are not conducive with one another. And yes, I'm aware that empiricism structures cognitive psychology, and psychology as a whole.

Ted

That's because you hold a narrow-minded conception of empiricism.

[Delorean90 42]

Possibly my biggest problem with ROTS (outside of the cinematography--why exactly did they not go with the cinematography of TPM?) was the fact that there was pretty much no basis for the "Obi-Wan once thought as you do" line. Even if you disregard the line, from the first time I saw ROTS, I just kept thinking, "Uh, Ben? Don't you want to know what's going on?" Instead of asking his friend why he was doing this, trying to get to the bottom of things, he pretty much jabs at him verbally, STARTS THE FREAKIN' FIGHT, talks about how he loves Anakin, and then leaves him in terrible anguish. Now, the same net result could've come about in a far more sensible fashion. For me personally, I was expecting Obi-Wan to be reaching out to him, and in the end, Anakin goes postal, causing an accident that results in his injury. But instead we get exchanges like this little gem:

ANAKIN

I should have known the Jedi were plotting to take over!

OBI-WAN

Anakin, Chancellor Palpatine is evil.

ANAKIN

From my point of view, the Jedi are evil!

OBI-WAN

Then you are lost!

Okay, what the crap just even happened, and how does it have ANYTHING to do what's actually going on? And who says "From my point of view" in a life-or-death saber fight over a lava river? Not gonna happen. There were things I liked about ROTS, but there were some major issues, as well.

I will say in favor of it, that the Moving Things Along/Anakin's Dark Deeds/It Can't Be sequence is just really well done, as a cinematic sequence and a musical one. And the very end is pretty much perfect.

[tpigeon 3]

What Joe said. Clearly, empirical inquiry and and psychology are not conducive with one another. And yes, I'm aware that empiricism structures cognitive psychology, and psychology as a whole.

Ted

That's because you hold a narrow-minded conception of empiricism.

Then I would say you hold a narrow-minded conception of me.

Ted

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I started with Star Wars Ep. III Revenge of the Sith, the 6th film of Star Wars.

Just out of interest, why did you start with Episode III?

Some would say that visually this film is STUNNING. I would wholeheartedly disagree. There is so much going on in each frame, you have to wonder if Lucas was standing behind the special effects crew in a leather harness, a cod piece and black hip boots with high heels beating them with a whip screaming more, more while Christopher Walkens voice blared over the loud speaker we need more cowbell.

I understand what you mean, particularly in regards to the battle of Coruscant. Personally, I have never really had a problem with it. Perhaps I'm too used to this type of sensory overload, but I do get a kick out of most of the film's opening effects shots.

Any chance that there is a coherent story in ROTS is buried under tons of flat looking effects. The talk in another thread about 3D immersion of the audience doesn't happen in this movie. There is no life within it. Yoda looks like a cartoon.

The 3D immersion you mension does not aply to Revenge of the Sith, since it specifically referred to movies being shown in 3D (using glasses). Revenge of the Sith was never shown that way, nor was it intended to. And it certainly wouldn't happen if you're watching it on DVD.

That being said, I know some of the things Yoda does in this film are impossible to achieve with a puppet, and he looks much better than he did in AotC, but I still find it odd the choice didn't go to a combination of both puppet and CG Yoda.

Poor Hayden Christiansen gets so much blame, but Anakin Skywalker is such a badly drawn character, and Lucas gives no proper direction blame falls on the director Lucas and not Hayden. What happened to the character director Lucas was in American Graffiti and Star Wars(don't tell me he wasn't a character director then, despite the great effects and the gloss, Star Wars was Luke, Leia, and Han). Its been 3 years George, find a script and do a 6 million dollar character driven movie with no effects, then you'll understand why this "film" is so terrible.

Yes.

Technology hurt this film. It allowed Lucas to bring out his worst tendencies. Instead of relying on his actors and his stories, he relied upon technology.

Yes, yes, yes.

A problem that plagued all three prequels, and seemed to be worst in AotC, probably because that movie hardly even had any story material in it anyway, contrary to RotS, which was just too bogged down and unfocused.

And I'll say this, something happened to Williams' mindset for scoring these films after Menace.

You can hear it in the music. The difference between the conveyor belt music for Minority Report and Clones, which were both released that same summer, proved it for me. MR's action cues sound like vintage enthused Williams while Clone's conveyor belt music sounds like Williams going thru the motions.

Bear in mind the conveyor belt sequence was a last-minute addition. I don't know how it affected Williams' scoring schedule, but it's possible he had to score that one in a rush.

Lucas has lost his talent to direct actors, but that does not change the fact that his story is gold.

Lucas never really had all that much talent as an actor's director, I think. He started as an editor if I'm not mistaken, and his philosophy seems to be to see what he can gather during shooting and then craft something out of it in editing (which is pretty much one of the philosophies that led him to choosing Jake Lloyd over the other finalist for the role of young Anakin).

But at least the actors in Star Wars had tangible environments in most of the scenes. I'm sure sitting in a triplex X-Wing being shaken by a bunch of stagehands isn't as glamourous as it may seem, but at least they had an environment to interact with in most of the scenes. The cast of the prequels seems to have had to endure one green or blue stage after the other, with a director that's not that apt at directing actors in a situation like that. Most of the actors seemed overwhelmed and just going through the paces trying to do their best, rather than being guided by the director to get the best performance possible. During shooting, Lucas seemed much more to be gathering elements to build his film in post-production, than actually shooting a real live-action movie.

I agree with that. He was fantastic in Broken Glass.

That would be Shattered Glass, but yes, he was quite good in it.

That said, there are passages in both Clones and Sith that are quite good, and that contain a remnant of that subtle (yes, subtle) magic that Star Wars was about. You may have to loosen up your hatred of these films to see these moments, but they're there.

I love the lightsaber duel in the dark, where the swords actually throw light upon the actors' faces. It's the best touch from AotC I can think of off the top of my head, but I still think that was a really cool bit.

For those of you who are complaining about it here's an idea....quit watching them. Seriously I'm tired seeing all the bashing that goes on at forums especially this one.

If you don't like these threads... quit reading them.

[Hlao-roo 389]

What Joe said. Clearly, empirical inquiry and and psychology are not conducive with one another. And yes, I'm aware that empiricism structures cognitive psychology, and psychology as a whole.

Ted

That's because you hold a narrow-minded conception of empiricism.

Then I would say you hold a narrow-minded conception of me.

Ted

Oh well, it happens.

Joe, I was referring to the empirically backed social psychological theory (first proposed by Leon Festinger) known as cognitive dissonance, frequently used to explain attitude change following a behavioral event. (The methodology of many, but not all, of the studies supporting the theory was recently called into question by economist Eric Chen, but he himself hasn't suggested that the theory itself is therefore discredited.) I was half jokingly suggesting that Anakin's "abrupt" turn to the dark side might be explained in part by a desire to resolve conflicting cognitions ("I just killed him! What have I done?" and "I'm a good Jedi!") that culminated in a decision to identify with evil ("I'm not a 'good Jedi,' after all! The way of the Sith is better -- that's why I killed him!"). I can see why all this might be easily dismissed as silly psychobabble, but Festinger's theory is one of the most accepted and enduring in the psychological research literature.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

For those of you who are complaining about it here's an idea....quit watching them. Seriously I'm tired seeing all the bashing that goes on at forums especially this one.

Vosk that is a completely childish point of view. First Im not bashing ROTS, I'm giving it fair and honest criticism, which you and others seem unable to understand. Its not like Im just saying its sucks for no reason, as of yet no one has been able to completely refute my criticisms of the film. I'm glad you like it, I'm not telling you to not. Consider this its ok to like a terribly flawed film. And yes you're correct all the prequels and all the original films have flaws, but Star Wars has by far the fewest, AOTC the most, and ROTS the 2nd most.

You might find it impossible to believe but if I don't like something I am willing to comeback to it, with an open mind, with the possibility that I might find that my point of view has changed. Sometimes it has sometimes it hasn't. I do that with movies, tv-shows, music, and food. Once each year I go through my JW cd's and listen to all of them even the ones I dislike. I call it spring cleaning, obviously more have dust on them than others.

Marc, you asked why I started with this one being Revenge of the Sith? Well Spike TV has been showing the prequels and the original trilogy in order. I just happened to catch about 10 or 15 minutes of ROTS on Spike, so I decided to go back and watch the whole movie. I'm also planning a similar thread on TOD later this week as I'm watching it in installments

Alan... to paraphrase from a far better film than Sith, Close Encounters of the Third Kind, you're speaking way over my head.

[MissPadmé 17]

I don't understand people who are complaining about people who are complaining... Can't you just leave them there opinion.. and if you consider there opinion to be stupid.. well that's your opinion...

[tpigeon 3]

Is your view of TOD favorable or unfavorable?

Ted

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I still think Episode I, even with that annoying Jar Jar, is far better than its two sequels...both film and score wise.

That is just me.

And I mostly agree with you, Joey, on RotS.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Is your view of TOD favorable or unfavorable?

Ted

I would prefer to not answer until I've completely rewatched the film, lets just say it too is a flawed film

[MissPadmé 17]

I still think Episode I, even with that annoying Jar Jar, is far better than its two sequels...both film and score wise.

That is just me.

And I mostly agree with you, Joey, on RotS.

No.. I share your opinion too!