Death of the Compact Disc

[HunterTech 1,502]

That must've been a good while before I joined, because I don't think I've seen anyone discuss such event in the time I've been here.

[King Mark 3,827]

well yeah it was a thing back in the mid 2000's

[Jay 42,358]

The RIAA starting suing music downloaders in 2003:

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/08/technology/record-industry-sues-hundreds-of-internet-music-swappers.html

https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/riaa-sues-261-file-swappers/

https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/riaa-begins-suing-individual-sharers-of-copyrighted-mp3-files

https://money.cnn.com/2003/09/08/technology/riaa_suits/

 

 

They gave up suing in 2008:

 

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/riaa-stops-suing-individuals-file-124702/

https://www.wired.com/2008/12/riaa-says-it-pl/

https://www.eff.org/wp/riaa-v-people-five-years-later

https://hbr.org/2008/12/why-the-riaa-stopped-suing

[Richard P 4,752]

Wow, that was 20 years ago! The very mechanism by which I created my first collection of scores and led to hundreds of purchases, was seen as pure evil by an industry that was terrified of adapting to the digital age.

[Manakin Skywalker 5,645]

“We’ve been telling people for a long time that file-sharing copyrighted music is illegal, that you are not anonymous when you do it"

 

How times have changed... 

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

This just showed up in my YouTube recommendations:

 

I don't know the guy or his other videos. The phrase "according to AI… I don't know how true that is, it's AI but, ah, there's gotta be something there" shows how reliable he is (not).

 

Anyway, he makes three major points about why he might be about to start thinking that CDs are better than streaming, and none of them have anything to do with CDs or physical media (only the point about haptics he mentions as an aside at the very end does).

 

What his points *are* about is the fundamental problem of streaming, which has nothing do with with analogue vs digital, or physical vs other storage technologies, or even music or audio at all (because the exact same thing applies to video streaming): When you buy music, you own the specific music you bought (be it on CD, or vinyl, or tape, or as a download). As long as you don't lose the thing you've bought, and as long as you have equipment that can play it, you can listen to it for however long you like. With streaming, not only don't you own the music, you also have no control over whether it will still be there the next time you want to listen to it: It might have been altered (in any of the ways described in the video, or in countless other ways) - or it might have been removed altogether (not having subscribed to any music streaming services, I'm unaware of how common this is with music today, but it's certainly an everyday occurrence with films and series on Netflix, Amazon Prime, & Co.). And (as he does point out, although again it's unrelated to CDs/physical media) you generally don't get to choose between different versions, and usually don't easily get enough information to even tell which version you can listen to and whether any other specific version you're interested in might be available.

 

For me, that's always been one of the big reasons why I never started streaming (the other two are more "personal": 2) I like collecting music and having a physical item on my shelf, even if I only rip the disc once and then play it from my server, and 3) there's too much music at my fingertips on streaming services, when I already can't find the time to listen to all the music I actually own - also 3b) half the stuff I want to listen to probably isn't available on streaming anyway). And unlike those more personal reasons, this is the big one that affects anyone who is in any way serious about collecting music - not in the sense of hoarding and owning stuff, but in the sense of building a library that you can reliably go back to whenever you like.

 

And this makes me think: Do people just not care enough about music? (Obviously many don't, but surely most of those who are serious enough about music do?) And/or do most people who live on streaming alone (especially those who are old enough to have grown up and been very familiar with buying music - again, from the subset of people who are serious enough about music to actively seek it out and not just listen to it on the radio) just not realise how much streaming puts them at the mercy of the platforms - especially in the long term?

 

And also: Did they really auto-tune Freddie Mercury for the most recent Queen re-releases? And if so, why did it spark so little outrage that I never heard about it? And also, how reliable are these reports when every discussion I can find only talks about whether or not specifically Mercury has been auto-tuned, when there are plenty of Queen songs where he wasn't the primary vocalist?

[Naïve Old Fart 11,601]

There's no way anyone would dare auto-tune Freddie.

I very much doubt that Taylor and May would allow it.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

 

40 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

It might have been altered

 

I can't remember having experienced this (that I'm aware of), but I've experienced something similar: a remastered release has gotten the tracks replaced by the same, "unremastered" tracks from an earlier release, because Spotify thinks the tracks are identical and want to save server space.

 

40 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

it might have been removed altogether

 

It does happen now and then that albums are removed from my territory, but they're usually available somewhere else in the world.

 

40 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

you generally don't get to choose between different versions, and usually don't easily get enough information to even tell which version you can listen to and whether any other specific version you're interested in might be available.

 

You usually only get access to the latest release of an album.

 

40 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

there's too much music at my fingertips on streaming services, when I already can't find the time to listen to all the music I actually own

 

Of course there's more interesting music than one has the time to listen to, and having a large selection is kind of the point of a library. But this plethora of recordings makes it very useful for sampling and comparing recordings. That's one of the main reasons I'm subscribing to Spotify. The other is that it gives me easy access to lots of favourite music when I'm away from home, for example at work. 

 

40 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

half the stuff I want to listen to probably isn't available on streaming anyway

 

At least for classical music the coverage now is very good. It's great for comparing Bruckner recordings.

 

40 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

Do people just not care enough about music? (Obviously many don't, but surely most of those who are serious enough about music do?) And/or do most people who live on streaming alone (especially those who are old enough to have grown up and been very familiar with buying music - again, from the subset of people who are serious enough about music to actively seek it out and not just listen to it on the radio) just not realise how much streaming puts them at the mercy of the platforms - especially in the long term?

 

I'd say it's several things: 1) partially people being lazy, falling for easy solutions, living in the present and not thinking ahead, partially a space issue - 2a) housing becoming increasingly expensive and therefore smaller, which 2b) becomes even worse if you get a family. Also, 3) a family takes up so much time and energy one doesn't have much time left for listening to one's music collection.

[Richard P 4,752]

1 hour ago, Marian Schedenig said:

When you buy music, you own the specific music you bought (be it on CD, or vinyl, or tape, or as a download). As long as you don't lose the thing you've bought, and as long as you have equipment that can play it, you can listen to it for however long you like. With streaming, not only don't you own the music, you also have no control over whether it will still be there the next time you want to listen to it: It might have been altered (in any of the ways described in the video, or in countless other ways) - or it might have been removed altogether

 

I would never have my only access to a piece of music be on a streaming service for partly this reason - I don't want the latest disagreement between an artist and their label to result in losing access. I'm probably about to cancel Prime (my last remaining movie subscription service), part of the reason being the total inability of any of the streamers to keep a movie for more than 5 seconds.

 

At an absolute bare minimum, any music that I care about needs to be available in an unprotected form (no DRM) on some physical media I can control, i.e. mp3/flac on a hard drive. That's 100% non-negotiable. If I'm not allowed to download and keep it, or the file is in some way protected to limit what I can do with it, then you're not getting my money.

 

I subscribe to Spotify for a very specific reason - I love discovering new stuff, making playlists for car listening, and to listen to things properly before I buy them. Once I've decided I like something, it gets purchased, so it's more an inconvenience if Spotify loses something.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

11 minutes ago, Richard P said:

I'm probably about to cancel Prime (my last remaining movie subscription service), part of the reason being the total inability of any of the streamers to keep a movie for more than 5 seconds.

 

Yeah, that's annoying and one of the reasons I buy films on bluray/DVD.

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

10 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Yeah, that's annoying and one of the reasons I buy films on bluray/DVD.

 

Except some don't get a physical release anymore. And some that do get one are getting increasingly hard to find. I only just recently ordered Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny from Amazon UK because the German version seems to be unavailable already. I still haven't found a Blu-ray for Killers of the Flower Moon (I missed the theatrical run).

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

11 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I only just recently ordered Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny from Amazon UK because the German version seems to be unavailable already. I still haven't found a Blu-ray for Killers of the Flower Moon (I missed the theatrical run).

 

You forgot to check JPC.

 

https://www.jpc.de/s/dial+of+destiny

[Richard P 4,752]

I fancied owning Sphere but I found it didn't appear to even have been released on BD in the UK - couldn't find it anywhere. Then I found Amazon Video had it on sale for just a few £s, so I 'bought' it, but that doesn't mean I own it in any sense.

 

Could buy a DVD for pennies, but SD sucks. The whole point is to own it in the highest reasonable quality, i.e. full HD.

 

I even had a bit of trouble finding a copy of Shrek on BD last year - I got one from an exchange place over here.

 

Gradually... just bit by bit, it's getting more difficult to find ownable copies of some things, particularly in HD. I'm grateful that basically all of my soundtrack grails are now out while CDs are still a thing. (well, SM:3 would now be my top grail, but until something drastic changes at the AFM, that ain't happening)

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

29 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You forgot to check JPC.

 

https://www.jpc.de/s/dial+of+destiny

 

I rarely do, because their film prices are generally ridiculous.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

9 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

I rarely do, because their film prices are generally ridiculous.

 

Well, their CD prices are also quite high when not on sale. 

[Marian Schedenig 10,123]

But they get better sales.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

The film is too new for that. 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

I rarely buy movies on disc at all anymore because I already have everything that I want. Most flicks that come out nowadays aren't even worth owning, let alone hogging up shelf space. And if there's an older flick that I want to see at least once, I'll seek it out online somehow.

[Director of Poltergeist 8,048]

Disc rot will make all this stuff useless at some point, and it will end up tossed into an incinerator like the ending of Citizen Kane.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

Many of my CDs are around 30 years old and I've yet to experience "disc rot."

 

I expect they'll last for the rest of my days—and after that, who cares.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

At least you'll have something to do when retired. 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Many of my CDs are around 30 years old and I've yet to experience "disc rot."

 

I expect they'll last for the rest of my days—and after that, who cares.

 

I'm good as long as they outlast me.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

6 minutes ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

I'm good

 

Not so sure about that. 

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

9 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Not so sure about that. 

 

You love me

[A24 4,803]

1 hour ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

 

- Cassettes are back (and some people think because they are analog they must be better than CDs).

- CDs are back

- VHS is dead

- Minidisc is dead

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

18 minutes ago, A24 said:

 

- Cassettes are back (and some people think because they are analog they must be better than CDs).

- CDs are back

- VHS is dead

- Minidisc is dead

 

The new tapedecks are crappy, even the latest Teac ones supposedly. And second-hand ones in working order are becoming more sparse year by year.

[A24 4,803]

12 minutes ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

 

 And second-hand ones in working order are becoming more sparse year by year.

 

Good! That means my Technics tapedeck is becoming more valuable each day!

[Naïve Old Fart 11,601]

I've never trusted streaming, and I never shall. I can never forgive it for the death of the CD.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

You don't have to trust it to use it.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

The best is FLAC from your cellular telephone to your hi-fi system via Bluetooth aptx. Until they make a transmission avenue that's completely lossless, aptx is it for now.

[A24 4,803]

9 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I've never trusted streaming, and I never shall. I can never forgive them for the death of the CD.

 

CD isn't dead. Like I said, sales are up again. People have discovered that CDs are so much cheaper than vinyl.

 

Expect many new CD players to come out soon!

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

Are you in a hospital?

[Mr. Hooper 5,022]

11 minutes ago, Lady Dimitrescu said:

 

The world's greatest detective doesn't know how to hold a CD.

[A24 4,803]

Batman has no fingerprints.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

Only greasy fingers. 

[A24 4,803]

[bollemanneke 3,999]

What others have said. If I can't own the music, I'm not paying anyone. I sometimes use Spotify, but more like a garbage dump than anything else. The daily mixes are fun, but it will never, ever replace serious listening for me.

 

As for films, I buy movies that had great scores and that really made an impression on me. Was surprised to find Eternals was already unavailable in the UK, new copies that is.

[Naïve Old Fart 11,601]

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Are you in a hospital?

What kind of a question is that?!

 

 

 

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

You don't have to trust it to use it.

Disagree, JS.

In everything we buy, there a certain element of trust.

I need to trust that the (rather expensive) A/V system that I have bought recently, will do the job that it's designed to do.

Machines are either a benefit, or a hazard. If they're a benefit, it's not my problem.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,893]

4 hours ago, A24 said:

People have discovered that CDs are so much cheaper than vinyl.

 

And better sounding.

[Jim Ware 586]

14 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

I still haven't found a Blu-ray for Killers of the Flower Moon (I missed the theatrical run).

Criterion attempted to licence it from Apple, and Apple said no.

[Lady Dimitrescu 9,807]

My Poltergeist LP sounds fuller and more aggressive than any CD version I have.

[Naïve Old Fart 11,601]

Love to prove that, wouldn't you, get your name into the National Geographic.

[Director of Poltergeist 8,048]

Spotify is actually very convenient for people who aren't immobile, lead busy lives and can't or don't want to lug around CDs. I mostly listen to podcasts now. 

[Naïve Old Fart 11,601]

You mostly listen to podcasts, now... mostly.

[Director of Poltergeist 8,048]

My car actually has a CD player, but I don't use it.

[Jurassic Shark 14,945]

You should. 

[Director of Poltergeist 8,048]

I'd rather listen to people talk

[Naïve Old Fart 11,601]

I rarely listen to music or radio in my car. I prefer the solitude, and to listen to the car.