What is, IYO, Spielberg's worst movie?

[Williamsfan301 11]

The opening to Amistad is pretty brilliant, the ending is too.

The score is way better than Horner's Titanic.

Amistad score has a much more mature sound than Titanic. However, they're both good in that they both serve their respective movies very well.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Amistads score is insignificant compared to Titanic.

Titanic is the all time block buster that has polarized fans, so many either really like it or love it, and the other side despises it.

Amistad did about two weeks worth of Titanic's boxoffice and is a film few saw and basically no one cares about. It had some interesting tales to tell, but it did not break into the social conscience.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh, dear, let the mauling commence...

Very well, my pleasure! I will remorselessly slap you across the face until you can hum the entirety of "Scherzo for Motorcycle and Orchestra"!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The opening to Amistad is pretty brilliant, the ending is too.

The score is way better than Horner's Titanic.

No.

I haven't even heard Amistad and I'm sure it's better than Titanic.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Amistads score is insignificant compared to Titanic.

Titanic is the all time block buster that has polarized fans, so many either really like it or love it, and the other side despises it.

Amistad did about two weeks worth of Titanic's boxoffice and is a film few saw and basically no one cares about. It had some interesting tales to tell, but it did not break into the social conscience.

Anyway, the mainstream social conscience today doesnt remember either movie.

So in the end it doesnt matter much

[Jacob 0]

I will probably invoke the wrath of the entire jwfan readership when I say this, but L.C. is an almost total waste of time, money, and effort, with crude and cheap-looking sfx, "flat" photography, tired performances, and an uninspired score. Oh, dear, let the mauling commence...

Maul.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Amistads score is insignificant compared to Titanic.

Titanic is the all time block buster that has polarized fans, so many either really like it or love it, and the other side despises it.

Amistad did about two weeks worth of Titanic's boxoffice and is a film few saw and basically no one cares about. It had some interesting tales to tell, but it did not break into the social conscience.

Anyway, the mainstream social conscience today doesnt remember either movie.

So in the end it doesnt matter much

as usual you're wrong.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Amistads score is insignificant compared to Titanic.

Titanic is the all time block buster that has polarized fans, so many either really like it or love it, and the other side despises it.

Amistad did about two weeks worth of Titanic's boxoffice and is a film few saw and basically no one cares about. It had some interesting tales to tell, but it did not break into the social conscience.

Titanic benefited greatly from a pre-release hype that Amistad never had. I don't believe Titanic would have been near the hit that it was if it hadn't been for that hype.

I will say that Titanic was like Star Wars in that it was the hit it was because it was the right movie for the right time. But, I don't think it has the classic value that Star Wars has.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Amistads score is insignificant compared to Titanic.

Titanic is the all time block buster that has polarized fans, so many either really like it or love it, and the other side despises it.

Amistad did about two weeks worth of Titanic's boxoffice and is a film few saw and basically no one cares about. It had some interesting tales to tell, but it did not break into the social conscience.

Anyway, the mainstream social conscience today doesnt remember either movie.

So in the end it doesnt matter much

as usual you're wrong.

Sorry, its one of those big time movies, but nowadays they dont last forever in the popular culture as lets say, casablanca, gone with the wind, ben hur, etc... I could even mention star wars but i dont want to be called 'biased'.

Nowadays blockbusters have shorter lifespans then the movies of old.

The prequels have come and gone, and its the 'force' of the OT that will keep them arround.

Even the superblockbuster LOTR is dormant now in the minds of people. It will awaken with the release of the hobbit. but then it will go to sleep again unless they made more movies or TV series in the Middle earth...

And this is talking about franchises... one movie blockbusters last in the minds of the people untill the next blockbuster arrives.

But yes, people still remembers what Titanic was, but i dont see people having the same reaction to this movie as with the classics and definately, not reacting to this movie like in 1997.

[Josh500 1,615]

I will say that Titanic was like Star Wars in that it was the hit it was because it was the right movie for the right time. But, I don't think it has the classic value that Star Wars has.

Titanic is a milestone film. The only reason many people are so critical about it is is that it was so damn successful. One of the all-time best films, period.

However, you're right about Star Wars. That does have more classic value. But then, few films are comparable to Star Wars.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

The only reason many people are so critical about it is is that it was so damn successful.

Actually, there is a number of reasons I can think of criticising Titanic for....

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

IS that really that big a milestone?

IMO it was only a very successfull good movie. It did not break any ground. That's what milestones do.

Jurassic Park is a milestone, but i dont consider it a classic movie like the ones i mentioned...

[Josh500 1,615]

The only reason many people are so critical about it is is that it was so damn successful.

Actually, there is a number of reasons I can think of criticising Titanic for....

But.. you're keeping them to yourself?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

The only reason many people are so critical about it is is that it was so damn successful.

Actually, there is a number of reasons I can think of criticising Titanic for....

Indeed. It's certainly a milestone, but a great film it is not.

I recommend A NIGHT TO REMEMBER instead.

[Josh500 1,615]

IS that really that big a milestone?

IMO it was only a very successfull good movie. It did not break any ground. That's what milestones do.

Jurassic Park is a milestone, but i dont consider it a classic movie like the ones i mentioned...

Are you kidding? It broke MANY grounds.

However, I didn't say Titanic was the BIGGEST milestone film, ever. So you're right, Jurassic Park did more in that regard, along with T2.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Are you kidding? It broke MANY grounds.

Which grounds are these exactly?

[Josh500 1,615]

Are you kidding? It broke MANY grounds.

Which grounds are these exactly?

SFX

I don't have to list all the specific scenes all, do I?

First came Jurassic Park, then Titanic. Both films pushed the boundaries of special effects at that time. Now the effects used have become almost standard.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Are you kidding? It broke MANY grounds.

Which grounds are these exactly?

SFX

I don't have to list all the specific scenes all, do I?

First came Jurassic Park, then Titanic. Both films pushed the boundaries of special effects at that time. Now the effects used have become almost standard.

Sorry, that's one ground.

[Josh500 1,615]

Are you kidding? It broke MANY grounds.

Which grounds are these exactly?

SFX

I don't have to list all the specific scenes all, do I?

First came Jurassic Park, then Titanic. Both films pushed the boundaries of special effects at that time. Now the effects used have become almost standard.

Sorry, that's one ground.

No need to be sorry...

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

SFX?

OK, it had nice ones.

But...

It was T2 and JP the milestones at that.

You could say every movie since those two break a milestone SFX wise. And that's not true. Dragonheart, the lost world... those are better CGI wise that T2 and JP but they definately are not milestones...

And about practical effects, i dont think titanic broke many grounds there either...

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

A lot of Titanic's FX look terrible.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Yeah, especially in the final stages of the ship sinking, when it's fully upright in the water. That really had a CGI look to it - the "water" running down the hull just doesn't look good.

[publicist 4,643]

Are these the feeble attempts to rehabilitate poor and rightfully forgotten films like 'Amistad? By besmirching 'Titanic', because the water didn't look right?

it's really....PATHETIC.

[Jessie Lohner 0]

Titanic was a great movie! I love it!

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Women....

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Titanic wasn't bad, but had some particularly bad special effects. To say nothing of my opinion of Amistad, however. Both were better films than Kingdom of the Crystal Skull.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Are these the feeble attempts to rehabilitate poor and rightfully forgotten films like 'Amistad? By besmirching 'Titanic', because the water didn't look right?

it's really....PATHETIC.

You also have no taste

[Henry B 50]

You know, you should write for the New York Times or something. Don't you realize what a gift it is that you alone have the ability to define good taste? Nobody else has quite got it! Only you can tell for sure what is tasteful and what is not. You need to spread this gift; you need to let as many people as possible know what the standards are for taste. There must be millions across the globe thinking to themselves, "I have certain interests in art, but I'm just not sure if they're tasteful. I wish there was somebody that would tell me whether I'm right or wrong!"

[Williamsfan301 11]

You know, you should write for the New York Times or something. Don't you realize what a gift it is that you alone have the ability to define good taste? Nobody else has quite got it! Only you can tell for sure what is tasteful and what is not. You need to spread this gift; you need to let as many people as possible know what the standards are for taste. There must be millions across the globe thinking to themselves, "I have certain interests in art, but I'm just not sure if they're tasteful. I wish there was somebody that would tell me whether I'm right or wrong!"

I'm thinking your journalism professor helped you with that post...

[Henry B 50]

I don't expect you to comprehend this, but I've never been arguing that I'm right or that I have good taste. Far from it. My argument is that the quality of art cannot be empirically defined; there really is no such thing as taste. For example, I just don't see how the fact that you cared about the characters in Amistad makes Amistad a better film. Some people cared more for the characters in Titanic. That's their experience, borne of a different perspective. What makes their feelings for the film inauthentic? Why is your perception the only valid one?

Predicted response: "I bet your philosophy professor helped you with that one."

[Williamsfan301 11]

I bet your philosophy professor helped you with that one.

[publicist 4,643]

Are these the feeble attempts to rehabilitate poor and rightfully forgotten films like 'Amistad? By besmirching 'Titanic', because the water didn't look right?

it's really....PATHETIC.

You also have no taste

If the reward of this heavy burden is not having to watch lil Steve grabbing for brownie points, i'll gladly shoulder it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Titanic is a great five star movie. It reminds me of an old Hollywood and I love that it wears it's heart on its sleeve. Oh and the sfx are excellent.

Also, Henry and Williamsfan should stop bickering.

[Josh500 1,615]

Titanic is one of the best movies, period. If you don't like it, then it's NOT because it's a bad movie. It's just not your cup of tea.

But don't say it's a bad movie. Only jealous critics and teenage girls who have moved on adoring Leonardo say "Titanic sucked!" (or something to that effect). I think we are slightly above that.

[Henry B 50]

Perhaps you could present a mathematical formula to prove that Titanic is an indisputably good (whatever that means) film. Note that "Because I said it is!!!!" cannot be scientifically verified.

[Williamsfan301 11]

Perhaps you could present a mathematical formula to prove that Titanic is an indisputably good (whatever that means) film. Note that "Because I said it is!!!!" cannot be scientifically verified.

Henry Buck would like to thank his math professor with his help on this post.

[Quintus 5,399]

Perhaps you could present a mathematical formula to prove that Titanic is an indisputably good (whatever that means) film. Note that "Because I said it is!!!!" cannot be scientifically verified.

Henry, your post is as worthless as Josh's.

The two of you have different critical approaches and that is all there is to it. We all know how excitable Josh can be, so there is little point in responding to him with wry sarcasm.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

If you don't like it, then it's NOT because it's a bad movie. It's just not your cup of tea.

That's a load of wank.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yes.

[Josh500 1,615]

Perhaps you could present a mathematical formula to prove that Titanic is an indisputably good (whatever that means) film. Note that "Because I said it is!!!!" cannot be scientifically verified.

Henry, your post is as worthless as Josh's.

The two of you have different critical approaches and that is all there is to it. We all know how excitable Josh can be, so there is little point in responding to him with deft sarcasm.

No, I acknowledged Henry's opinion. And I agree with him, when he said:

"I don't expect you to comprehend this, but I've never been arguing that I'm right or that I have good taste. Far from it. My argument is that the quality of art cannot be empirically defined; there really is no such thing as taste. For example, I just don't see how the fact that you cared about the characters in Amistad makes Amistad a better film. Some people cared more for the characters in Titanic. That's their experience, borne of a different perspective. What makes their feelings for the film inauthentic? Why is your perception the only valid one?"

However, you can always say GENERALLY whether a movie is good or bad. Generally, Titanic is considered a good movie. Only with movies as successful as this one, there are always people who try to get attention by criticizing it roundly. That's just a matter of course. Still, Titanic IS considered a very good movie by many people.

I don't know what to make of YOUR backhanded (insulting?) comment, though, Quint.

[Quintus 5,399]

I didn't mean to insult you Josh, sorry. I was simply saying what I see.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Still, Titanic IS considered a very good movie by many people.

So is THE PHANTOM MENACE. All that says is "a large group of people think a film is good". It doesn't say which people, so it could be everyone on Earth who is in a mental hospital.

That isn't a diss on TITANIC. I don't think it's a very good film, and I don't care about it enough to really argue on anything but the principle. But as you're defending it so vehemently, I find it curious that you've not explained what you actually find so great about it, beyond the special effects. Instead of going on about everyone loving it so much, why not tell us why you think it's so great?

[Quintus 5,399]

Hooray for constructive criticism!

[Josh500 1,615]

Still, Titanic IS considered a very good movie by many people.

So is THE PHANTOM MENACE. All that says is "a large group of people think a film is good". It doesn't say which people, so it could be everyone on Earth who is in a mental hospital.

That isn't a diss on TITANIC. I don't think it's a very good film, and I don't care about it enough to really argue on anything but the principle. But as you're defending it so vehemently, I find it curious that you've not explained what you actually find so great about it, beyond the special effects. Instead of going on about everyone loving it so much, why not tell us why you think it's so great?

I liked the movie very much when I saw it first on DVD. I liked the story (very moving), the authentic historical background Cameron took pains in recreating, the special effects, and the amazing sets. And you gotta admit, the action sequences once the ship hits the iceberg ARE impressive and breathtaking. And also, for once, I liked the score (although I'm not a James Horner fan). Last but not least, Titanic wasn't an emotionally empty movie like, say, Pearl Harbor. It actually had heart.

It probably helps (not that that says anything) that I am a big fan of James Cameron. He is an exceptionally gifted director (only second to Spielberg, IMO, as far as action/fantasy/sci-fi genre is concerned). I think this is his best work, along with T2.

[Quintus 5,399]

Aliens is Cameron's best.

[Josh500 1,615]

Aliens is Cameron's best.

That's good too, but for me, Titanic, The Terminator, and T2 are his top films.

Actually I liked True Lies, as well.

[Quintus 5,399]

All of the above movies are very good.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

A lot of Titanic's FX look terrible.

no they don't

Quint said all that needs to be said.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

they should have evaded putting CGI passengers on deck. The tech was still not enough developed for that...

[Ollie 1,059]

Fortunately for the world this is one of the times that history will show that JWFAN is wrong and Titanic will be remembered as one of the most successful films of all time and a winner of 11 Oscars.

Amistad will only be remembered as one of Spielberg's lesser efforts.

I know the pro-Spielberg mentality here does not allow for people to see beyond ILM CGI and Stevie but if you can't realize what Titanic did in terms of visual effects then JP's effects are just as worthless.

I saw Titanic 4 months into it's run and the theatre was packed full, and it wasn't little teenage girls.