New 'Classical' Composers?

[Musica42 0]

This is vaguely on topic, kick it elsewhere if you must. Anyway are there any newcomer 'classical' composers you people enjoy? And by classical I of course mean orchestral. I'm mostly looking for some new people to listen to. John Corgliano, Libby Larsen, and Michael Daughtery are a few of the people I've been following. But I always hunger for more.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

The only one that comes to mind is Ludovico Einaudi. His Divenire album is really good.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I was just thinking of Einaudi. I heard a piece used in Top Gear and his stuff is very good

He's also scored a number of films, according to IMDB.

[scissorhands 16]

Listen to Jennifer Higdon, one of America's top composers. Her voice is more akin to Williams' than any other I've heard of.

[TownerFan 4,983]

John Adams.

[Marcus 390]

Well, apart from Corigliano, whose music you're already into, I'd suggest Christopher Rouse. They are probably two of the most unique, interesting voices in contemporary music, and have been for decades. I'm assuming you've encountered the music of John Adams. Peio mentions Jennifer Higdon, who is a wonderful orchestrator, but I'd actually recommend that you check out her chamber music, if you can (I know you've specified "orchestral", but I think you'd be greatly rewarded for checking out more intimate musical expressions, as a lot of the very best music, including the very best new music, out there is written for other media than a symphonic orchestra).

I would also recommend Higdon's perhaps slightly more renowned Curtis colleague, Richard Danielpour, who has written a lot of highly accomplished music both for orchestra and chamber media. Osvaldo Golijov would be another composer that could be of interest to you.

I'd also like to promote the work of far too little known Galician composer Octavio Vasquez.

As far as kinship with the music of John Williams (I don't know if that's something you're actively looking for at all), I cannot make any recommendations at all, unfortunately. The one thing I find typically lacking in more "romantically" oriented composers, is a deeper sense of lyricism. There are very, very few who've attempted an actual melodic "lingo", and even fewer that have been succesful at it, but this is probably about to change, as the whole direction of contemporary music, especially in Europe, is changing. The almost 50-year reign of academic modernism seems to be at an end, and I predict more diversity in years to come, and with it, an emergence of strong melodic profiles.

[Musica42 0]

Thanks for the recommendations! Rhapsody held several CDs of these composers (except Octavio Vasquez) and I was very impressed. The only composer that I didn't find too appealing was Einaudi, not because the music sucked by any means but because it just wasn't what I was looking for. The other composers I listened to (Higdon, Danielpour, and Vasquez) were very much what I was desiring. And naturally as assumed I am familiar with John Adams.

There are very, very few who've attempted an actual melodic "lingo", and even fewer that have been succesful at it, but this is probably about to change, as the whole direction of contemporary music, especially in Europe, is changing. The almost 50-year reign of academic modernism seems to be at an end, and I predict more diversity in years to come, and with it, an emergence of strong melodic profiles.

Well, my experience of academic modernism was suffocating to say the least in college. I was a music composition major at the University of North Texas from 2001 to 2005 and the entire direction of the school's composition department was (and still is as far as I know) completely devoted to making students except the calvacade of modernist techniques as the chief means of creating music. The special guests were almost completely from the modernist train of thought (although Libby Larsen and Samuel Adler did make appearances at the campus while I was there). My sophomore year a film/tv composition veteran showed up as an adjunct faculty member and the interest that guy generated among the students was rediculous. He only taught one class that first semester, which thankfully I got into, but there were several kids who audited the class just to hear what he had to say. Anyway, anecdote over.

[Henry B 50]

As I sat in composition seminar yesterday listening to my professor explain how "John Williams doesn't steal, he bores," it occurred to me that the modernist school is perfectly legitimate... in a mathematical way. The joy of modernist music is the sort of joy one derives from recognizing a pattern in data or understanding a formula. Melody and harmony? Irrelevant. Only the technical complexity is of interest. I'll never have that mindset.

By the way, check out Jonny Greenwood. He's better known as the lead guitarist of Radiohead, but his concert works and film scores are fascinating.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

I assume Glass and Nyman are a given.

I've once heard a piece by Aaron J. Kernis in concert. Never been able to find a recording of it, and never heard anything else by him, but I'd like to.

[Musica42 0]

As I sat in composition seminar yesterday listening to my professor explain how "John Williams doesn't steal, he bores," it occurred to me that the modernist school is perfectly legitimate... in a mathematical way. The joy of modernist music is the sort of joy one derives from recognizing a pattern in data or understanding a formula. Melody and harmony? Irrelevant. Only the technical complexity is of interest. I'll never have that mindset.

While I'd agree it's legitimate, I think the rediculous regard it's still shown over other equally legitimate styles in academia is at the detriment to the entire artform. Music can be a lot of things, both cerebrial and emotional, but ideally there should be a blend and it is unfortunate that so many college programs wince at the thought of music being something as pedestrian as emotional.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I think the emotional aspect is more important than the technical aspect.

[Datameister 2,044]

I agree. The technical side of things is only important to me insofar as it elicits an emotional response.

EDIT: Quick anecdote - one time, I had a Beethoven class in a lecture hall with a REALLY nice concert grand up on the stage. I convinced the professor to let me dabble around on it after lecture a few times, but only until the staff came through to put stuff away and so forth. One time, one of them (evidently musically trained) heard me playing some Indiana Jones on the piano and immediately said, "Oh no, not John Williams!" I guess the holier-than-thou attitude toward emotionally resonant film scores extends to all echelons of academia...even the ones whose denizens make a living by moving pianos across a stage.

[MSM 126]

Some things come to mind. I think some of Ennio Morricone's work can be regarded classical music (e.g. his cello arrangements of his film works). There is a Finnish composer called Einojuhani Rautavaara which is really good and is said to have influenced Williams for several scores. Tan Dun can be regarded a classical composer. Lin Zhao is another interesting Chinese modern composer (his work can be heard on Beyond the Horizon cd with Yo-Yo Ma). There are some pretty interesting Dutch modern classical composers also.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Ah yes, I should dig out what little Rautavaara I have. And also the Reich I have somewhere, after just having seen a short docu about him.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I'd suggest Christopher Rouse

I second the suggestion.

As I sat in composition seminar yesterday listening to my professor explain how "John Williams doesn't steal, he bores," it occurred to me that the modernist school is perfectly legitimate... in a mathematical way. The joy of modernist music is the sort of joy one derives from recognizing a pattern in data or understanding a formula. Melody and harmony? Irrelevant. Only the technical complexity is of interest. I'll never have that mindset.

Arnold Schoenberg: "The mental pleasures caused by structural beauty can be tantamount to the pleasure deriving from emotional qualities."

[Henry B 50]

Quick anecdote - one time, I had a Beethoven class in a lecture hall with a REALLY nice concert grand up on the stage. I convinced the professor to let me dabble around on it after lecture a few times, but only until the staff came through to put stuff away and so forth. One time, one of them (evidently musically trained) heard me playing some Indiana Jones on the piano and immediately said, "Oh no, not John Williams!" I guess the holier-than-thou attitude toward emotionally resonant film scores extends to all echelons of academia...even the ones whose denizens make a living by moving pianos across a stage.

Joe, if it's any consolation, my composition professor at the Hartt School had the handwritten score to Raiders of the Lost Ark in his office. This elitism doesn't permeate every corner of academia. My professor now at UMass Amherst is modernist but not elitist, in that he appreciates other schools of composition. His opinion about John Williams is completely uninformed and probably just based on the infamous one and a half minutes of "plagiarized" music in Star Wars. He'd change his mind if he heard, say, the Duo Concertante. I'm kind of pissed at him, though. I forgot to put measure numbers in a clarinet part and he tore me to shreds for it. The key to passing composition class here is not to write music, but to write anything and just format it neatly and legibly. Speaking of clarinets, a student here recently played "The Tale of Victor Navorski" on his senior recital. Good stuff.

[Musica42 0]

The key to passing composition class here is not to write music, but to write anything and just format it neatly and legibly.

Good to know I'm not the only one to experience stuff like this. I found actually that it was all about being able to babble about the process of composing one's piece that guaranteed an 'A'. I went to a recital of composition student works where a couple of comp majors improvised aimlessly for about 5 minutes on saxophones while another interpreted their sounds and splashed paint and threw bits of cut out construction paper onto a canvas on the floor. After this process, the saxophonists then bent down and stared at the results on the floor and then "interpreted" that with another five minutes of utterly aimless playing. It was one of the most laughable things I saw the whole time I was at the university, but these kids got their passing grade for what amounted to zero composition effort. And unfortunately this was the norm, i.e. elaborate setups to avoid actually being responsible for writing anything. The real aggravation though is not that this kind of thing happened, but rather that it was encouraged over tonal compositions. Things like harmony, form, and counterpoint were all considered the realm of the theory department and while these subjects would arise on the occasion they were always seemingly on the backburner for composing staff. This is a sore subject for me, can you tell?

[Henry B 50]

The key to passing composition class here is not to write music, but to write anything and just format it neatly and legibly.

Good to know I'm not the only one to experience stuff like this. I found actually that it was all about being able to babble about the process of composing one's piece that guaranteed an 'A'. I went to a recital of composition student works where a couple of comp majors improvised aimlessly for about 5 minutes on saxophones while another interpreted their sounds and splashed paint and threw bits of cut out construction paper onto a canvas on the floor. After this process, the saxophonists then bent down and stared at the results on the floor and then "interpreted" that with another five minutes of utterly aimless playing. It was one of the most laughable things I saw the whole time I was at the university, but these kids got their passing grade for what amounted to zero composition effort. And unfortunately this was the norm, i.e. elaborate setups to avoid actually being responsible for writing anything. The real aggravation though is not that this kind of thing happened, but rather that it was encouraged over tonal compositions. Things like harmony, form, and counterpoint were all considered the realm of the theory department and while these subjects would arise on the occasion they were always seemingly on the backburner for composing staff. This is a sore subject for me, can you tell?

Yeah, I've seen shit like that. I remember at a recital at Hartt a student composition consisted of aimless banging on a marimba followed by garbled screams and the performer walking out of the room. Some of that stuff is interesting in an intellectual way, and I'm talking about real chance music like John Cage, not idiotic student pieces, but I'd be hard pressed to call it music. One composition I really liked was a student composition last year in which an assortment of percussion instruments provided the sound effects and ambience for a short skit. Entertaining, at least.

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

Kernis is awesome. Thanks, Peio!

[Datameister 2,044]

I feel much better about not majoring in music now.

[Musica42 0]

Yeah, I've seen shit like that. I remember at a recital at Hartt a student composition consisted of aimless banging on a marimba followed by garbled screams and the performer walking out of the room. Some of that stuff is interesting in an intellectual way, and I'm talking about real chance music like John Cage, not idiotic student pieces, but I'd be hard pressed to call it music. One composition I really liked was a student composition last year in which an assortment of percussion instruments provided the sound effects and ambience for a short skit. Entertaining, at least.

Well the real crux of the matter is when the performer is basically making things up, the success or failure of the piece is completely reliant upon that performer's abilities. I've seen performers do this and completely suck and I've seen performers completely mesmorize me. One of the greatest 10 minutes of music I've ever heard was Christopher Deane at UNT improvising a solo with nothing but a tambourine and a metal marble. Words fail to describe that performance but the man is a percussion genius and it was brilliant.

[airmanjerm 78]

Wow I thought that I was the only Music Composition major in grad school to ever get irritated about all that "academic vs. emotional" business. My story was pretty much the same:

After finishing all the classes I needed for my Master's in Composition, I had a 4.0 in all my coursework, and only had to write a thesis work/composition and do a recital of my own works. I had my thesis document mapped out for a symphony for wind band. I spent several months (an entire summer) developing ideas I had had for about two years. I had all the movements outlined, themes included, all the stuff you'd need for a good project proposal....then when I submitted it the composition faculty wouldn't even open it. They said I couldn't do a work for wind band as my thesis work. They told me that I could do an electronic music work (the most ridiculous of ALL music, I'm convinced), or a work for something like three violas, a flute, a tambourine and a vibraphone or something crazy.

So, I walked down the hall, changed my major to "Wind Conducting," and finished in about a semester plus a summer. I've never looked back, except to immediately accept a commission from the bands department there to write a major work for them. I didn't learn a single thing from the composition faculty there except what NOT to do, and how NOT to be a real professional.

The best part was the composition faculty telling me how I shouldn't resign myself to such a "low brow" genre as wind bands, as serious composers never write music for that type of group. Guess they've never heard of Hindemith, Copland, Husa, Persichetti, or even...could it be?,,,Schoenberg.

[A24 4,346]

Listen to Jennifer Higdon, one of America's top composers. Her voice is more akin to Williams' than any other I've heard of.

It must be weird to hear a woman compose muscular macho music.

I recently listened to Boom Of The Tingling Strings by Jon Lord (Deep Purple). I didn't know that he is a classical composer these days.

Alex

[TownerFan 4,983]

Some things come to mind. I think some of Ennio Morricone's work can be regarded classical music (e.g. his cello arrangements of his film works).

Morricone has written (and still writes) many pieces for the concert hall (or, as himself calls it, "absolute music"), but they're really ultra-modernist compositions, very very far from his film works.

Morricone explained several times he regards his "absolute music" compositions much more highly than his film works.

[A24 4,346]

Some things come to mind. I think some of Ennio Morricone's work can be regarded classical music (e.g. his cello arrangements of his film works).

Morricone has written (and still writes) many pieces for the concert hall (or, as himself calls it, "absolute music"), but they're really ultra-modernist compositions, very very far from his film works.

Morricone explained several times he regards his "absolute music" compositions much more highly than his film works.

Do you recommend a particular CD?

[TownerFan 4,983]

There aare several CDs with his concert music:

http://www.cnimusic.it/iomorricone/symphonymusic.htm

http://www.cnimusic.it/iomorricone/chambermusic.htm

http://www.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm?ID=11562

I'm not very acquainted with his concert output--the few things I listened to I found them quite difficult and heady to get through.

[David Coscina 4]

Wow I thought that I was the only Music Composition major in grad school to ever get irritated about all that "academic vs. emotional" business. My story was pretty much the same:

I didn't learn a single thing from the composition faculty there except what NOT to do, and how NOT to be a real professional.

I hear you. When I transferred from Jazz performance to composition in my second year of university, I became increasingly despondent at how the curriculum was being taught. Very little structure and a lot of philosophy of music- you know, music perception and all that. My professor was James Tenney who was very avant garde and threw stuff like Varese's Octandre and that ilk at us. I think I learned more after I graduated by going over orchestration books by Adler and Kennan, Adler's Harmony, and heck, just writing for real musicians and finding out what worked and what didn't. Listening and studying conductor's scores was also helpful. I think my History of Western music classes were also invaluable as my profs would teach analysis of structure, arranging, noting different harmonizations that were indictive of different cultural backgrounds (ie Russian, Polish, French, English, German, Italian).

I hear many many stories from various composers regarding academia. I think composition per se cannot be taught anyhow. You either can do it or you can't. Training is invaluable to help shape and develop a composer's toolset but at the end of the day what sets them apart is their own style and compositional voice. My thoughts anyhow.

[Henry B 50]

Wow I thought that I was the only Music Composition major in grad school to ever get irritated about all that "academic vs. emotional" business. My story was pretty much the same:

After finishing all the classes I needed for my Master's in Composition, I had a 4.0 in all my coursework, and only had to write a thesis work/composition and do a recital of my own works. I had my thesis document mapped out for a symphony for wind band. I spent several months (an entire summer) developing ideas I had had for about two years. I had all the movements outlined, themes included, all the stuff you'd need for a good project proposal....then when I submitted it the composition faculty wouldn't even open it. They said I couldn't do a work for wind band as my thesis work. They told me that I could do an electronic music work (the most ridiculous of ALL music, I'm convinced), or a work for something like three violas, a flute, a tambourine and a vibraphone or something crazy.

So, I walked down the hall, changed my major to "Wind Conducting," and finished in about a semester plus a summer. I've never looked back, except to immediately accept a commission from the bands department there to write a major work for them. I didn't learn a single thing from the composition faculty there except what NOT to do, and how NOT to be a real professional.

The best part was the composition faculty telling me how I shouldn't resign myself to such a "low brow" genre as wind bands, as serious composers never write music for that type of group. Guess they've never heard of Hindemith, Copland, Husa, Persichetti, or even...could it be?,,,Schoenberg.

Wow. I remember you've discussed this before, but it's still impressive to think learned musicians could be so close minded. I suppose I'm lucky at UMass because nobody forces anything on me. Composition is taught through suggestion; e.g. "Why don't you develop this material more?" or "try orchestrating this passage differently." Nothing is required, but the faculty impart their often very helpful opinions. The other half of composition is just formatting scores and parts as neatly and clearly as possible. People are unbelievably sloppy when it comes to legible writing, or sometimes they know what to do but they don't know how to make Finale/Sibelius do it (getting those notation programs to work the right way is a skill in its own right). If you screw anything up, it becomes a scenario of good cop/bad cop with the faculty... except the good cops don't really speak up at all. Writing in specific styles isn't really emphasized because there are theory classes for that.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

I fully endorse previous posts recommending Rautavaara (his "Angels" series is brillant), and John Corigliano (I was introduced to his music via "Altered States").