Star Trek Questions and Nitpicks

[Trent B 337]

Never question Star Trek. You get this. I have a fucking headache just looking at these posts, forget reading or interpreting them.

Sometimes it can be fun to nit pick and question it...but you're right most of the time it's one big giant headache.

[John Crichton 4]

A lot of times I find the auto destruct sequence is little more than a plot contrivance to up the stakes for the audience, though in First Contact its potential use is more believable.

I bet the person that thought up the idea of warp core ejections got endless razzing from the rest of the writers: every time they wrote a story that involved a warp core problem they would have to throw in a line that the ejection system was offline. It became the least reliable piece of equipment in Starfleet history.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think Insurrection is the first time it actually worked.

[John Crichton 4]

Was there a DS9 ep where it did? I can't remember.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What? On the station? It hasn't got warp.

[John Crichton 4]

Well they could eject the fusion core, or whatever the main power source is called.

But I was thinking of the Defiant, or a "ship of the week". Probably not.

[Tex1272 0]

Just chalk that up to the writer's stupidity of trying to get Shatner and Stewart on screen together. So in both versions Kirk goes out with a whimper. They should have let Kirk take out Soran like a man and live. Then they could allow him to share a goodbye with Picard and ride off into the sunset like he deserved.

I agree with the concept, but I'm sure no one (the writers, the producers, Shatner, etc.) wanted to deal with the implications of a living Kirk in the Next Gen universe.

Well, Picard could have somehow caused Kirk to be sucked back into the Nexus to be with Antonia forever. Picard could have kept quiet about Kirk's fate and history could have been preserved. As it is, Chris Pike and Zephram Chochrane got better send-offs.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Why aren't the miraculously healing spores from "This Side of Paradise" treated like the medical breakthrough they are? Every time I see someone get sick or hurt in Trek I think of that.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or the Transporter for that matter.

Think about it. A machine that breaks down your body to the molecular level, stores it, sends it to another location and then reassembles you.

Simply put, if it can store your body in perfect detail, then you can use it to become immortal.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Interesting. I guess the Transporter is easier to swallow because it's so ingrained in our culture we just don't question it.

Also, it is not a beautiful metaphor for marihuana like the spores are.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You mean "Beam me up Scotty" isn't about getting high?

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I thought it was about immortality?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Were you high, when you thought of that?

[Trent B 337]

Well they could eject the fusion core, or whatever the main power source is called.

But I was thinking of the Defiant, or a "ship of the week". Probably not.

DS9 really didn't have much problems for their fusion core or the Defiant in regards to a Warp Core breach. All though there was one episode of DS9 where the fusion core almost over loaded and exploded but Sisko managed to revert the energy through to the shields in time. That was caused because O'Brian accidentally activated a program left there by Dukat before he abandoned the station which was causing mas havoc through out the station.

Again though the station was saved at the last minute.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

At the end of "Star Trek T.M.P.", Scotty said that The Enterprise could have Spock back on Vulcan in 3 days, so why does it only take 3 minutes for The Enterprise to reach Vulcan, from Earth, in "Star Trek"?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

You'd be surprised how much having a Budweiser bottling plant as your engines can increase your warp velocity.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

You'd be surprised how much having a Budweiser bottling plant as your engines can increase your warp velocity.

Cool!

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yes.

Now Janeway on the other hand....

True story. And she still has the gall to go back and meddle with the time-line (risking passing on future technology to the Borg and any other race) to prevent half her crew from dying in "Endgame". Just be happy you made it home at all, lady! That's more than most captains could wish for!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Still can't work out how Janeway got an Admiralcy, unless it's just to keep her out of the way from screwing up any more.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

In the real world Starfleet would have sjamboked her!

[Trent B 337]

Still can't work out how Janeway got an Admiralcy, unless it's just to keep her out of the way from screwing up any more.

Because of how long they were in the Delta Quadrant really no one advanced in rank except for Tuvok and Tom. All though I still think Harry should have been a Lieutenant by the 5th or 6th season. Anyways when they returned home everyone on Voyager got a step up in rank, including Janeway.

Unofficially Chakotay was promoted to Captain and given command of Voyager after Janeway was promoted. Even Tom Paris was promoted to Lieutenant Commander and Chakotay asked him to be his first officer, which Tom accepted. Harry became a full Lieutenant and Tuvok became a full Commander.

Most everyone remained on board Voyager with Chakotay as Captain.

This is all of course in the books from what I've read tidbits about on the net, so that's why I said unofficially.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

The only character I would've been interested to see beyond that series is Seven. It would've been quite cool to see her adjust to life on Earth, until she would inevitably join Starfleet. Drop that godawful romance with Chakotay though, that was almost as random as Troi and Worf.

[Trent B 337]

Agreed about the romance thing between Seven and Chakotay. I thought that her and Harry may have tried to work something out or something...

Voyager had the second worst series finale for a Star Trek show ever...Enterprise takes the cake on that one, as they should have ended it with "Terra Prime", instead of basically a TNG tie in episode...UGH! I would have loved to have the finale of Voyager showing Voyager returning home and the people on board reuniting with family and such. Having the ship finally returning home as the very last episode..I dunno just sorta killed the rest of the season. They spent way too much damn time on the Borg story.

[Wojo 2,453]

At the end of "Star Trek T.M.P.", Scotty said that The Enterprise could have Spock back on Vulcan in 3 days, so why does it only take 3 minutes for The Enterprise to reach Vulcan, from Earth, in "Star Trek"?

For the same reason that Kirk and crew voyage to the center of the galaxy in an hour or so in Star Trek V, but it takes Janeway seven years to travel twice as far.

Because Harry, Dick, and George wrote this script, and Muff, Jeff, and Billy wrote the other script.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I think the official explanation is that Starfleet learned a lot from futuristic Romulan technology after the Kelvin battle, so everything we see after that (the communicators, for instance) is far more advanced.

I'm not usually bothered by these things, not beyond shrugging them off as "alternate timeline".

[OneBuckFilms 323]

I thought this thread would already be to page 50 by today

It was . . . but a couple of us went back in time and changed it, deleted the whole annoying flareup of useless, bickering comments. When I got back to the present, I didn't have a dog any more. Not sure what happened there.

- Uni

Alternate Reality

At the end of "Star Trek T.M.P.", Scotty said that The Enterprise could have Spock back on Vulcan in 3 days, so why does it only take 3 minutes for The Enterprise to reach Vulcan, from Earth, in "Star Trek"?

For the same reason that Kirk and crew voyage to the center of the galaxy in an hour or so in Star Trek V, but it takes Janeway seven years to travel twice as far.

Because Harry, Dick, and George wrote this script, and Muff, Jeff, and Billy wrote the other script.

Actually, it's time compression in the editing.

Check out how quickly McCoy's uniform changes.

[Wojo 2,453]

From the Avatar Best Picture thread...

Trek's characters were a joke. Please don't get me started.

"Necessarily" in order to reboot the franchise with a new generation of actors, the whole movie was an exercise to see how much incongruity the writers could cause to the "conventional" Star Trek timeline and characters by inserting a random incursion from the future. This helps explain Kirk's reinvention as a smartass hothead rebel, but does not well explain the liberties taken with the other characters, other than to satisfy certain levels of 2000's era humor and sex in films. Spock becomes more willing to openly pursue his human side than Nimoy's Spock. Sulu seems ill-prepared to pilot a starship. Scotty knows less about his job than Spock Prime, and is probably relegated to the second half of the movie only to let the other lesser TOS characters have their crack at the comic relief. By lesser, I mean not Spock, Kirk, or McCoy.

It is only by the grace of the most sensible of the time voyageurs, Spock Prime, that an effort is made to right the wrongs made by Nero's incursion, but only for the sake of. Kirk is not captain but he should be, so the plot "shoehorns" that requirement into the story in two ways: Kirk figures everything out too early by way of a plot hole (without a black hole during the attack on Vulcan, there should be no lightning storm to remind Kirk of the day of his birth), and he then has to trick Spock into abdicating the captaincy so that he can satisfy that character requirement. He certainly deserves to be captain, but he seizes it; he doesn't earn it. He becomes captain simply because he's supposed to be the captain.

Plot holes and caricatured characters aside, I think that Star Trek 2009 is the best and most entertaining of the last five. I'll take its hackneyed logic and reimagination of a classic over the way renaissance man Picard first gets his butt kicked by Malcolm MacDowell, then quickly turns into an action star for the next three.

[Ollie 1,059]

"Necessarily" in order to reboot the franchise with a new generation of actors, the whole movie was an exercise to see how much incongruity the writers could cause to the "conventional" Star Trek timeline and characters by inserting a random incursion from the future. This helps explain Kirk's reinvention as a smartass hothead rebel, but does not well explain the liberties taken with the other characters, other than to satisfy certain levels of 2000's era humor and sex in films. Spock becomes more willing to openly pursue his human side than Nimoy's Spock. Sulu seems ill-prepared to pilot a starship. Scotty knows less about his job than Spock Prime, and is probably relegated to the second half of the movie only to let the other lesser TOS characters have their crack at the comic relief. By lesser, I mean not Spock, Kirk, or McCoy.

You have to remember though, we are getting to see the characters in their early stages. By the time we see them in the original TV series they are well into their mission and are a veteran crew. Who knows what happened before?

[Wojo 2,453]

That's certainly part of it. I'd say they are one part a Batman Begins-style reinvention of established characters, one part forever altered characters by way of time travel, and one part updated for a younger, hipper audience.

If they were simply the younger versions of the 1960s characters, there would have been no need for time travel. The stage is set for a completely new future in Abrams' Trek world, free to pick and choose from the tapestry to weave imaginative stories.

It is now very unlikely that Abrams' Pike will ever meet with the inhabitants of Talos IV or spend his final years there. While Khan is definitely floating around in space asleep in the Botany Bay, we don't need Abrams to go there. And if he decides to also kill Spock again, there is no Vulcan temple to revive him and no human mother to re-teach him how to feel fine.

[John Crichton 4]

The doomsday machine, the whale probe, and V'Ger are all still out there too. So should Kang, Koloth, and Kor!

[Wojo 2,453]

Maybe the Klingons can hijack the Guardian of Forever to lure the Doomsday Machine, the whale probe, and Tin Man into Federation space, to destroy Kirk and the Enterprise once and for all.

Was it ever discussed here why J.J. Abrams used the Beastie Boys' "Sabotage" in Kirk's stepdad's car radio in Star Trek 2009?

Because the reason I've found online is HILARIOUS.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Maybe the Klingons can hijack the Guardian of Forever to lure the Doomsday Machine, the whale probe, and Tin Man into Federation space, to destroy Kirk and the Enterprise once and for all.

Was it ever discussed here why J.J. Abrams used the Beastie Boys' "Sabotage" in Kirk's stepdad's car radio in Star Trek 2009?

Because the reason I've found online is HILARIOUS.

Because he's a obsessive hipster unable to realise what an awful scene that is?

I'm not sure if it is due to the Shatner blooper, but I've heard that before. I can't remember if he mentions it on the commentary.

[Red 75]

Because he's a obsessive hipster unable to realise what an awful scene that is?

That scene treads dangerously close into Michael Bay territory. Luckily there weren't really any other moments like that.

[John Crichton 4]

That's my least favorite scene as well. Mostly due to the music and because the stunt is so over the top.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It kind of shoehorns all of Abrams 'Oh no, what if people still think Star Trek is for nerds?' fears into one scene.

[Wojo 2,453]

It does show Kirk as somebody willing to tease death for the thrill of it, which is akin to his future behavior as captain.

But the willful and meaningless destruction of family property -- nay, a priceless relic by that point -- is so reckless and inconsequential (since we don't see his stepdad beat the living shit out of him) that it doesn't belong.

And throwing "your father's Star Trek" off of a cliff doesn't work because it's a stretch to consider a car from the 1960s an analogy for a classic TV show from the same decade.

I think I would have been happier if the whole thing was done on a Klingon holodeck from Enterprise...

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I also absolutely loathed seeing the Nokia logo. The idea of corporations still existing doesn't mesh with Roddenberry's vision for me.

[Wojo 2,453]

I never thought about it that way, but you're right. I can see the car logo surviving intact, because it's an antique. If you remove the logo, you void the authenticity of the relic. I can also forgive Budweiser for being mentioned, because I know that alcohol survives into the Star Trek years, and I don't want to think that in the future, they distill the thousands of choices down into a handful.

But that Nokia cell phone was fully functional, as if the company survived well into the future, rather than just a universal comm network operated by Starfleet or planetary command. Unfortunately, since it's a big budget movie made in the 2000's, it's got to have its product placements. Roddenberry's vision started to be undermined decades ago, so using a recognizable cell phone is the least of such evils.

It's one thing to make Abrams' Star Trek universe drop the obtuse aspects of the '60s show in favor of a more modern look, like the knobs and dials everywhere, or the large floppy disk things the officers plug into the computers to bring up communication records. But it's another to keep contemporary gadgets and companies in the show.

Part of Star Trek's long-running method of making it seem more futuristic was to make the characters "forget" about the way the contemporary audience behaves and lives. Observe how out of touch Kirk and friends are each time they visit the 20th century. It can add to the charm and humor of the show, but also become frustrating to believe that the things we take for granted would become so forgotten after WWIII. Later series like DS9 and Voyager manage to bring the 20th century back into the fold, with baseball, nightclubs, and Paris' car. For what those items are worth.

It's reassuring to see that they can still curl up with a good book, rather than a Kindle. Or will that appear in Star Trek 12?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I never thought about it that way, but you're right. I can see the car logo surviving intact, because it's an antique. If you remove the logo, you void the authenticity of the relic. I can also forgive Budweiser for being mentioned, because I know that alcohol survives into the Star Trek years, and I don't want to think that in the future, they distill the thousands of choices down into a handful.

But that Nokia cell phone was fully functional, as if the company survived well into the future, rather than just a universal comm network operated by Starfleet or planetary command. Unfortunately, since it's a big budget movie made in the 2000's, it's got to have its product placements. Roddenberry's vision started to be undermined decades ago, so using a recognizable cell phone is the least of such evils.

It's one thing to make Abrams' Star Trek universe drop the obtuse aspects of the '60s show in favor of a more modern look, like the knobs and dials everywhere, or the large floppy disk things the officers plug into the computers to bring up communication records. But it's another to keep contemporary gadgets and companies in the show.

Part of Star Trek's long-running method of making it seem more futuristic was to make the characters "forget" about the way the contemporary audience behaves and lives. Observe how out of touch Kirk and friends are each time they visit the 20th century. It can add to the charm and humor of the show, but also become frustrating to believe that the things we take for granted would become so forgotten after WWIII. Later series like DS9 and Voyager manage to bring the 20th century back into the fold, with baseball, nightclubs, and Paris' car. For what those items are worth.

It's reassuring to see that they can still curl up with a good book, rather than a Kindle. Or will that appear in Star Trek 12?

You're right, it just to me seems like another transparent effort to show how hip and in tune with young people this film is. The alcohol thing is funny, I can accept that as it has a different connotation. In the same way, it was lame in FIRST CONTACT when Deanna acts as if tequila doesn't exist. Maybe she just didn't visit Ten Forward much.

[Wojo 2,453]

I think Ten Forward generally served fake alcohol called synthehol. That makes sense for officers on a military-capable vessel to be able to socialize without getting drunk. Guinan did keep bottles of "the good stuff" behind the bar, but over the generations, getting drunk was probably one of those less savory human experiences that was worked out of society.

The Iowa bar in Star Trek 2009 was a civilian Earth installation, so it had the good stuff. Cochrane's launch site was even earlier, so it only had real booze as well.

Again, that's a contemporary feeling lost by Star Trek officers. Same with the "leak" slang. Meant to be funny but comes across as tedious.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I think Ten Forward generally served fake alcohol called synthehol. That makes sense for officers on a military-capable vessel to be able to socialize without getting drunk. Guinan did keep bottles of "the good stuff" behind the bar, but over the generations, getting drunk was probably one of those less savory human experiences that was worked out of society.

The Iowa bar in Star Trek 2009 was a civilian Earth installation, so it had the good stuff. Cochrane's launch site was even earlier, so it only had real booze as well.

Again, that's a contemporary feeling lost by Star Trek officers. Same with the "leak" slang. Meant to be funny but comes across as tedious.

Not to mention the whole Romulan Ale deal. It was funny in II, okay in VI, but do they have to keep referencing it like there's no other drink in the whole universe? There's like only one drink from each culture it seems. Blood wine from Klingons, Romulan Ale, Canar from Cardassia, Saurian Brandy from Sauria (?), and, um, prune juice from Earth.

[Wojo 2,453]

I guess because you don't want to over complicate the show. Italians eat more than just pasta and bread, Japanese more than sushi, and Americans more than pizza and apple pie. But when you're trying to tell a larger story without spending all day explaining the cultures, you sometimes resort to stereotypes and streamlines.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

It's true, maybe it's just because Trek was, at one time, so prevalent that it felt like it was repeating itself.

On the same line, I wonder if Coke still exists.

[Ollie 1,059]

Instead of Earl Gray, I would have loved for Picard to one day ask for "Budweiser, chilled mug". Or perhaps, "Corona, bottled with a lime".

[Wojo 2,453]

On the same line, I wonder if Coke still exists.

I doubt it. Nobody's fat.

What a depressing future Roddenberry envisioned!

[ST-321 4]

Not a question, nor a nitpick, but my wife & I are re-watching Deep Space 9 on DVD. It has been a few years and I had forgotten that unlike other Trek franchises the series was great from the very beginning. The episode Duet near the end of Season 1 is absolutely fantastic.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

I'm not sure if it has ready been asked, but I have a question about how time is measured in Star Trek. When did "normal" time (2245, 2246, etc.) become stardate, and why (see next question)? If - as I suspect - stardate is meant to be a universal constant, then how does it take into account FLT travel?

Also, if stardate is the accepted measurement of time, then how come there that time is stil measured in centuries (the first thing in "ST: II" that we see, is a card saying "In the 23rd, Century...")? If there are no days, then how can there be centuries?

It's just a thought, but I'd kinda like to get my head 'round this.

[Kevin 22]

Not a question, nor a nitpick, but my wife & I are re-watching Deep Space 9 on DVD. It has been a few years and I had forgotten that unlike other Trek franchises the series was great from the very beginning. The episode Duet near the end of Season 1 is absolutely fantastic.

I've been meaning to watch the whole of Deep Space Nine for the past six months, but alas I still have not gotten around to it!

[OneBuckFilms 323]

I'm not sure if it has ready been asked, but I have a question about how time is measured in Star Trek. When did "normal" time (2245, 2246, etc.) become stardate, and why (see next question)? If - as I suspect - stardate is meant to be a universal constant, then how does it take into account FLT travel?

Also, if stardate is the accepted measurement of time, then how come there that time is stil measured in centuries (the first thing in "ST: II" that we see, is a card saying "In the 23rd, Century...")? If there are no days, then how can there be centuries?

It's just a thought, but I'd kinda like to get my head 'round this.

It was never established precisely when Earth moved from the Gregorial calendar to the Stardate system, nor is it ever established it's basis.

It has been suggested that it is based on the regular flash of a Pulsar somewhere. By having a fixed stellar object as it's basis, then the ship's computer can periodically locate and adjust it's onboard clock to compensate for relitivistic distortions.

The on-screen title card was not for the characters on screen, but to explain to the audience the timeframe the movie is set. Old terms are still known, days are still days, and we hear plenty of references to years, weeks etc.

Many aspects of these things are intentionally left vague.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

I'm not sure if it has ready been asked, but I have a question about how time is measured in Star Trek. When did "normal" time (2245, 2246, etc.) become stardate, and why (see next question)? If - as I suspect - stardate is meant to be a universal constant, then how does it take into account FLT travel?

Also, if stardate is the accepted measurement of time, then how come there that time is stil measured in centuries (the first thing in "ST: II" that we see, is a card saying "In the 23rd, Century...")? If there are no days, then how can there be centuries?

It's just a thought, but I'd kinda like to get my head 'round this.

It was never established precisely when Earth moved from the Gregorial calendar to the Stardate system, nor is it ever established it's basis.

It has been suggested that it is based on the regular flash of a Pulsar somewhere. By having a fixed stellar object as it's basis, then the ship's computer can periodically locate and adjust it's onboard clock to compensate for relitivistic distortions.

The on-screen title card was not for the characters on screen, but to explain to the audience the timeframe the movie is set. Old terms are still known, days are still days, and we hear plenty of references to years, weeks etc.

Many aspects of these things are intentionally left vague.

Thanks for that, Mr. Buck. I have been doing a little net search on the same subject, and it would appear that there are several errors concerning the chronology of stardates among the writers. Apparently Roddenberry himself told them not to worry about temparal continuity, too much.

Also, wasn't the card at the start of "Star Trek: II" put there so as not to confuse the producer's mother? Or something...