ChrisAfonso 186 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Hi, I'd like to ask you a question. But don't give me an answer, because I don't want it. To be fair, he didn't ask what happens, he asked what the in-universe rules are. Also, do you usually post unmarked spoilers for everyone to see, if just one person asks for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Hi, I'd like to ask you a question. But don't give me an answer, because I don't want it. In fairness, it would have been easy not to anticipate that the correct answer to that question would have been spoilery. Edit: Chris beat me to it, again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Ummm...what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well, it all depends on the rules in Westeros, right? BOOK READERS! Please tell us TV watchers this: Is Margaery now the Queen, because Joffrey died after the wedding ceremony.... OR, is Joffrey's brother now the King, because Joffrey and Margaery hadn't consumated their marriage yet?"Is Margaery now the Queen, because Joffrey died after the wedding ceremony?"The answer to this question requires knowledge of a plot point, which Jay didn't know he didn't want to know."OR, is Joffrey's brother now the King, because Joffrey and Margaery hadn't consumated their marriage yet?"Tommen is now the King, but it has nothing to do with Margaery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 If you want to nitpick, Margaery is "now" only the widow of the last king, not the Queen (periods of bureaucratic reordering notwithstanding), which does not require knowledge of a forthcoming plot point, which even if asked for should have been given in spoiler tags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 You should have typed that before I beat you to it. Glóin the Dark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 Well, it's not a really major twist, so not much harm done I guess... just speaking as a spoiler-wary but mechanics-curious person myself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 just wanna share... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I notice that wedding feasts in Westeros all have to feature The Rains of Castamere Surely, if the Lannisters are involved. Indeed...I just included it for the sake of completeness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Steef, that's the only photo of blood you're allowed to post tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 The night is young, my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 The night is young, my friendAnd what a beautiful friendship it is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 To keep this spoiler-free and show-internal: When Robert died, Cersei didn't become ruling queen by default, successor by law would have been Stannis. Simple rule: Firstborn son succeeds, spouse (consummated or not) has nothing to do with it.Wait, if Stannis was instant king, why was Ned the only one who thought to contact him and tell him that Robert's kids were really Jamie's kids, and that he should come rule? Why did everyone else immediately crown Joffrey?If you want to nitpick, Margaery is "now" only the widow of the last king, not the Queen (periods of bureaucratic reordering notwithstanding), which does not require knowledge of a forthcoming plot point, which even if asked for should have been given in spoiler tags.OK, so Westeros is a completely patriarchal society, then. Thanks, that makes sense. I should have realize that since when Robert died Cersei didn't start ruling = when Joffrey died, Margaery doesn't get to start ruling either. OK, so now the more likely suspects of the poisoning are Oberyn or Cersei/Tywin, not Olenna and the Tyrells. I mean, what would Olenna gain, other than keeping her granddaughter away from a sociopath? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Granddaughter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisAfonso 186 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Because (almost) no one knew that Cersei's kids are not Robert's - heck, Ned even died because of this. If it had been public knowledge, he would still live, Stannis would be king, and Cersei would sit in Casterly Rock with her offspring and brood... or would they? When Ned came into the throne room with Robert's letter, Cersei and Joffrey demonstrated clearly the answer of Varys's riddle to Tyrion: "Power resides where men _believe_ it resides". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Isn't dude like, 12? So what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Cersei became Queen Regent when Robert died by betraying Eddard Stark, who had circumstantial evidence. She rules in the name of Joffrey, but technically should not have because that's supposed to stop on the sixteenth nameday, while Joffrey was nineteen.Had she sided with the "truth," it would have torn her family apart, her father would have come marching south against her, and she would have had no power because Stannis and his barren queen would have all the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Isn't dude like, 12?So what?Jason isnt really familiar with the history and traditions of the royal families of Europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Wait, if Stannis was instant king, why was Ned the only one who thought to contact him and tell him that Robert's kids were really Jamie's kids, and that he should come rule? Why did everyone else immediately crown Joffrey? Because officially, Joffrey Baratheon (!) was Robert's natural son and therefore his successor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Ned didn't know how to play the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 OK, so Westeros is a completely patriarchal society... Incidentally, the rules dictating lines of succession are not uniform across Westeros. According to George R. R. Martin: ...the laws of inheritance in the Seven Kingdoms are modelled on those in real medieval history... which is to say, they were vague, uncodified, subject to varying interpretations, and often contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 So when Robert died, Joffrey became king because Robert (supposedly) already had offspring. But when Joffrey died, his brother became king because he had no offspring yet. Got it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Pay a few thousand dollars to visit the set of Game of Thrones in Northern Ireland. While here, you may also have the opportunity to enjoy our mediaeval castles, mountains, lakes, museums, flag riots, car bombs, and Barry's amusement park in Portrush. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Yea I forgot to mention in my write up how great the very end of the episode was. I mean, all the buildup, all the character interactions were very solid. But the actual death was great, with the choking, convulsing, vomiting... And then the special effects of Joffrey's dying face were really creepy and cool. Something different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Yea I forgot to mention in my write up how great the very end of the episode was. I mean, all the buildup, all the character interactions were very solid. But the actual death was great, with the choking, convulsing, vomiting... And then the special effects of Joffrey's dying face were really creepy and cool. Something different.As I said before it was near perfect in capturing that particular sequence of the novel. They conveyed so perfectly the constant sense of unease that pervaded the whole affair as there is much more tension, political rivalry and state machinations going on than in your average happy family event. Jack Gleeson's performance could not have been more spot on. It's good to be the king and a psychopath brat.I loved the short exchange between lady Olenna and Tywin Lannister. I know ruling is hard business but Tywin should live a little.Joffrey's demise was just perfectly executed (pun intended). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Well that was a good night!I agree what Gleeson relished his final scenes, which were written to show what a repugnant and psycotic little rat shit sonofabitch monster Joffrey is. He makes Draco Malfoy seem like pleasant company. The only main character on GOT who is totally without shades of grey. (Ramsey shows promise though)My only dissapointment is that Ayra wont have 5 minutes with him in private.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I, unfortunately, know who did it. And it's both surprising and completely logical.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I, unfortunately, know who did it. And it's both surprising and completely logical. Dixon Hill and Incanus 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 It was the Imp! The Imp did it! Only a twisted little monster like him could do it! Seize him! Seize him! He is the devil himself! It was him!Or was it?.... Tune in for the next 3 ½ seasons to find out! Same Lannister channel, sama Lannister time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 No, it was Ned Stark in whitewalker form!Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 No, it was Ned Stark in whitewalker form!KarolOh no no no Ned didn't keep a cool head, which resulted in headiness and everything was headed for an obvious decapitation. He lost his head at the critical moment and thus he will never be the head of the state of Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I actually suspect that Syrio Forel is Jaqen. Remember Jaqen is a shapeshifter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Who knows. So many people with secrets!So with Joffrey gone Ramsey becomes the new "completely evil" character. But its not the same. Its not his fault. He's a bastard, trying to curry favour with his father! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Tommen and Myrcella don't appear to have Joffrey's worst traits, though; perhaps we just have to blame the gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 What do we say to Conrad Pope? Not today. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I think Ollena is the most likely suspect because the cup was over on her side of the table just before Joffrey's last sip. But if Margaery has no power now, I dunno what her motivation was. So I guess it's either that or Oberyn poisoning the entire pie, and hoping Joffrey didn't decide he didn't want any. Oh one more thing. Remember last week, Daario was like "this flower is beautiful, but deathly poisonous"? Is that the same poison used on Joffrey? If so, is there anyone in King's Landing who has spent time in Essos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I didn't say it had to, just speculating! Foreshadowing us a technique writers often use! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 You havent watched CSI obviously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Let's talk about Bran, Hodor, and the warg siblings. What did people think of that part of the episode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Nothing much to say to be honest. The wolf-dream sequence was cool visually. But we have actually seen it before. The part about then being addictive is the most interesting part. I wonder if it will actually go somewhere.The scene between Bran and treebeard was also well done, but if the result is that Bran has to go North...Wasnt he already heading there?Like Theon's story and Jon Snow, Bran's story has been seriously dragging for a long time now. I really hope something actually happens this season.For quote a while now the storylines involving the Lannisters have been far more engaging then the ones with the Starks', with exception of Ayra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I don't know why Cersei was once a suspect here. She was clearly the most heart-struck by this. She was the only one who truly loved him, even while acknowledging his insanity.I know the real killer (like other book readers), and its a logical answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 I wonder if - this being the first season I am watching "live" (as in watching each episode the week it airs, not necessary as it's first airing), as opposed to the first 3 in which we could watch the next episode whenever we wanted - I will feel some storylines will "drag" this season too. Because honestly, I never thought anything in any episode of GOT has ever felt dragged out yet, with the big exception of the Theon storyline from S3 which is the weakest storyline they've done on the show so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Really? You didnt think Jon Show's stuff in season 3 was slow-ass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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