SCORE: Batman Forever (LLL)

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Well... here it is.

And it's beautiful. The packaging and art direction is fantastic; I do have a quibble about it though. The liner text is quite small, so when the printing runs slightly off (as half of the pages in mine did) it can get difficult to read. I consider my eyesight pretty good, so those with lesser eyesight may be more irritated than I am. But oh well.

Anyway... the music. BF gets compared to Wagner a lot, and it makes sense - you know how hard it is to get through a Wagner opera in one sitting (urge to conquer Poland notwithstanding)? Like those massive works, this is such a dense and aggressive listen that it's almost a challenge to get through at once. Fortunately, almost every bar has something interesting to offer - a unique idea, a little orchestrational quirk, a BADASS burst of the main theme - that it easily justifies any potential exhaustion.

The big surprise is how well-assembled the original album was - it didn't have everything you needed from the movie (which, I should admit, I love to pieces - I constantly had it on as a kid, and despite its flaws I still find it a lot of fun, and might be why I'm head over heels for the music), but it was very well thought out. Two-Face Three Step, for instance - one would think that's a self-contained composition if they hadn't seen the film, or otherwise known it's cobbled from four separate cues. But it has the coherency of a concert piece - a wild, modernistic concert piece, but all the same.

Presentation-wise, it's all good - the sequencing differs slightly from the film, and there's bits of music that aren't here ("Boys, KILL THE BAT!"), but like 96% of the score is here, and I don't miss the other 4%. I'll live, and you will too.

Can you tell I enjoyed this? haha

[Demondm810 399]

I wannnnnntttt it. Damn USPS!

[Admiral Holdo 16]

If I hadn't gone into fanboy mode and placed an order at 1 on the dot, I probably wouldn't have gotten it til tomorrow.

And it helps that I only live on the other side of California.

[scallenger 483]

What exactly is missing from it?

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Near as I can figure out, the music for when Two-Face's guards are surrounding the elevator ("BOYS, KILL THE BAT!"). There's a bit from that cue present in the album track "Two-Face Three Step". The section preceding that is an interesting case; it's not in the score presentation proper, but it's on the album as "Chase Blanc" (and its real name is given as "Romantic Entrance"), and you can program it back into the score without any problem.

So yeah, maybe 45-ish seconds of music? That's all I figured out was missing.

[Demondm810 399]

Is it mentioned anywhere in the notes?

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Yeah, the notes mention that. They don't outright state "Back in the Bank" is missing (mostly), it's just sort of stated that it exists and where it goes.

[Jay 37,374]

Goldenthal nixed 3 cues from being included in the main body of the score:

 

1. "Back In The Bank", part of which is heard in "Two Face Three-Step" on the OST portion, so we have part of it

 

2. The short cue for when Bruce busts down the door of Chase's office. That's the only thing we don't have any part of.

 

3. The first Batman/Chase encounter from the beginning of the film, which we have in its entirety, as its in the OST portion as "Chase Blanc".

 

The total length of the missing music (the portion of 1. and all of 2.) equals 45 seconds, and that's ALL that is missing. Less than 1% of the score.

 

Goldenthal also chose to change the chronological order of a few pieces for a better listening experience. So you have to swap "Obligatory Car Chase" and "Through The Eye", as well as the two circus pieces. This is in addition to adding Chase Blanc back into the flow. It's not worth trying to edit "Back In The Bank" out of "Two Face Three-Step".

[Demondm810 399]

Ah perfect, thanks Jay!

Hopefully my mailman has this baby today.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

It's not worth trying to edit "Back In The Bank" out of "Two Face Three-Step".

This is true, I tried it, didn't really work out. And honestly, it's near-identical to the last 20-ish seconds of Introducing Two-Face, so there's even less point to it.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

So the scene at the Riddler's lair when Batman is in that tunnel and then rides the chain up through the door in the floor. Is that music as awesome as I remember?

I enjoy these scores in their respective films, but I haven't gotten the expanded versions. I rarely buy a non-JW score these days and haven't been compelled enough by the Batmans. I have the old albums and I don't really listen to them anymore. But I kinda want Batman Forever. This score is so badass.

[scallenger 483]

I can say that I don't agree with the following review:

http://filmtracks.com/titles/batman_forever.html

[Faleel 5,360]

I hate how he just tacks on a little blurb on the bottom and doesnt actually even attempt to change his opinion in the slightest when a new/expanded album is released (like with Star Trek IV)

[Jay 37,374]

Why does anyone still go to that guys' site? He has been irrelevant for years

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I still read his reviews, though it's safe to say he's no James Southall. That guy oughta review everything.

And yeah, disagreed with him on Batman Forever (and Trek IV, for that matter).

[Trent B 337]

Why does anyone still go to that guys' site? He has been irrelevant for years

Indeed. I haven't been there in a couple of years myself.

[KK 3,307]

Why does anyone still go to that guys' site? He has been irrelevant for years

Irrelevant? What exactly do you mean by that?

I believe Clemmensen writes great, detailed reviews that do a fine job of pointing out the strengths and weaknesses of a score. One of the best reviewers (along with Broxton and Southall) out there in the community and I for one, am grateful for his continuous contributions to the film score community. Not to mention his reviews are great reads too.

And keep in mind guys, its a review, and thus its his opinion. No one asked any of you to agree with it. Just because his opinion differs from yours, you seem to hold him in contempt. Am I the only one who sees the huge lack of logic there?

Oh and I personally never found much Star Trek IV btw

I hate how he just tacks on a little blurb on the bottom and doesnt actually even attempt to change his opinion in the slightest when a new/expanded album is released (like with Star Trek IV)

They're far more than just "blurbs". He revises his entire review to attune it to the most recent release; often increasing the review in length by 500 words. Take the review for Goldsmith's First Knight for instance, where he even goes to assign the La la Land release an addition five star rating. Or, the better example are his massive reviews for the Lord of the Rings scores with extremely detailed and in-depth additional notes. THAT is no little "blurb". Take the time to actually read his revised reviews next time my friend.

[scallenger 483]

I just merely stated I didn't agree with his particular review for Batman Forever. I actually do think he does fairly good reviews, but his taste does seem pretty different than mine in some regards (he also praises other scores I find quite boring). But all reviews are opinions. No one is right. But I think it was safe to say that I can disagree with his review, haha. I put the review up in this thread primarily because it was the first I had seen that was so negative toward the score, at least around here. Wanted to show the other side of the coin even though I didn't agree with it.

[Faleel 5,360]

They're far more than just "blurbs". He revises his entire review to attune it to the most recent release.

Not with his reviews for Batman forever, 1941, OR Star Trek IV

[KK 3,307]

I just merely stated I didn't agree with his particular review for Batman Forever. I actually do think he does fairly good reviews, but his taste does seem pretty different than mine in some regards (he also praises other scores I find quite boring). But all reviews are opinions. No one is right. But I think it was safe to say that I can disagree with his review, haha. I put the review up in this thread primarily because it was the first I had seen that was so negative toward the score, at least around here. Wanted to show the other side of the coin even though I didn't agree with it.

That's perfectly fine. Of course you're entitled to disagreement, but thats not I was picking on (and I wasn't picking on you ). Its just insults like claiming they're "irrelevant" is something totally uncalled for...

They're far more than just "blurbs". He revises his entire review to attune it to the most recent release.

Not with his reviews for Batman forever, 1941, OR Star Trek IV

Look again.

(Title - Previous word count/New word count - Difference)

Batman Forever - 1251/1835 - 584

Star Trek IV - 1070/1995 - 925

CC tends to go through the every sentence to restructure the review in accordance with the updates. I don't know the stats for 1941, but I recall the increase in its word count. Look at Star Trek IV, he practically doubled the length (apparently he didn't like his previous review for the score, so he restructured it).

You guys should really take the time to read through the reviews before you bash them.

[Faleel 5,360]

I reread the Star Trek IV review, you were right KK,...this time.... BE MERCIFUL!

[KK 3,307]

I reread the Starv Trek IV review, you wer right KK,...this time.... BE MERCIFUL!

Hehehehe. I let that fool of a boal go, but I shall need some time with you Faleel. Mercy is not some mere trinket I can pass around...you must prove yourself worthy, or take the whip!

On another note, I still haven't gotten to the Zelda music yet as I've been really busy recently. I'll get to it though, I promise!

[Hlao-roo 389]

Why does anyone still go to that guys' site? He has been irrelevant for years

Clemmensen's irrelevance stopped being relevant years ago.

[publicist 4,643]

Ah, the Clemmenson of old still is alive and kicking. You can almost see him ripping his sideburns listening to something more extravagant and imaginative than his usual fare of emotionally 'sincere' Hollywood product. I guess those 'negative critiques' of INTERVIEW WITH THE VAMPIRE (see below) came in form of a long-winded review from Clemmenson, while at the same time a white dove flew out of his trousers while he listened to the much less 'complicated' LEGENDS OF THE FALL:

"Negative critiques of the composer's Interview with a Vampire will state that the problems were foreshadowed in that score, and correctly so. There is fascinating intelligence in the many interweaving constructs heard here, but together they are too complicated for their own good in this concept. The wildly shifting personality of Batman Forever's music (both on screen and album) reaches an all-time low with the insufferable female voice and theremin effects representing the Riddler and his real life identity. Equally obnoxious are the tirelessly pounded phrases within the stomping theme for Two-Face. When combining forces, their identities (and those associated with their henchmen) wildly ramble off into other genres of music, using rhythmic devices from innumerous sources to punctuate their strangeness. Out of this over-the-top personality develops a ridiculous theme for the Riddler's Claw Island at the end of the film that puts the exclamation point on this issue. Earlier, when the title character is pursued around Gotham by Two-Face's thugs, Goldenthal unleashes one of the worst chase motifs ever to be recorded for film, making a mockery out of the concept in all instances." quoted from Filmtracks without permission.

[ymenard 54]

I wish people would still write over-the-top compositions for film music!! I like compositors self-aware of what they do and having fun with it. Who can still do that? Bryan Tyler? Giacchino?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The music was everything it needed to be.