10 most overrated films of all time

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

On another (lesser) Internet forum, I was told by a wannabe Hollywood screenwriter that I wasn't smart enough to understand INCEPTION and that's ultimately why I disliked it.

There's nothing to take from it and nothing to "understand" except the convenient script-serving (and...stupid) rules of the dream world.

[Harmsway 6]

On another (lesser) Internet forum, I was told by a wannabe Hollywood screenwriter that I wasn't smart enough to understand INCEPTION and that's ultimately why I disliked it.

There's nothing to take from it and nothing to "understand" except the convenient script-serving (and...stupid) rules of the dream world.

I'm not sure that's entirely true; as awkward as Inception is, there's a wonderful Borgesian love story buried underneath all the exposition. Imagine what Wong Kar-Wai might have made of the same material.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

On another (lesser) Internet forum, I was told by a wannabe Hollywood screenwriter that I wasn't smart enough to understand INCEPTION and that's ultimately why I disliked it.

There's nothing to take from it and nothing to "understand" except the convenient script-serving (and...stupid) rules of the dream world.

What does it mean, then, that I took something from it?

[A24 4,338]

Taxi Driver is confused in deeply problematic ways, even though it's undeniably potent.

Say wha?

Please elaborate.

You can draw a clear line between Taxi Driver and Fight Club. I don't mean to equate the two films, exactly; Taxi Driver is undeniably superior to Fight Club in practically every way, and is not plagued by the latter's smugness. But Taxi Driver, like Fight Club, is nevertheless so fixated on a charismatic, misanthropic figure and so immersed in his muddled worldview that it struggles to extricate itself.

I don't understand what you are saying. In a more clear language, what is the exact problem that links Taxi Driver and Fight Club? How are they confused? How does that make them problematic? And what charismatic character in Fight Club do you mean?

Alex

[publicist 4,643]

The right one:

[A24 4,338]

Well, besides the fact that all of Hollywood's leading men have a certain dose of charisma, I don't see Norton's character in Fight Club as a charismatic figure. For me, the charismatic figure is Brad Pitt to whom Norton looks up to.

Alex

[Quintus 5,399]

I thought it was Pitt he was actually referring to. Norton has very little charisma in general, imo, especially in Fight Club.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Norton does have little charisma. He's boring in many of his films.

[crocodile 8,017]

Yep.

Karol

[A24 4,338]

In the beginning of his career, he was seen as the new Robert De Niro. So in a way, he's Robert De Niro in Fight Club.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He was great in that Richard Gere movie. And actually quite effective in the last 2 Wes Anderson ones.

[A24 4,338]

What do we think of the much beloved yet nothing but a glorified TV biopic that is named A Beautiful Mind?

Yes, I am a professor of mathematics, can't you tell?

I mean, this movie is being admired on the same level as The Shawshank Redemption (and probably by the same mass)!

Are we really going to put up with that?

Alex

[crocodile 8,017]

And actually quite effective in the last 2 Wes Anderson ones.

Quite effective in Wes Anderson's films? Or did those made him look "effective"?

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

What do we think of the much beloved yet nothing but a glorified TV biopic that is named A Beautiful Mind?

Yes, I am a professor of mathematics, can't you tell?

I mean, this movie is being admired on the same level as The Shawshank Redemption (and probably by the same mass)!

Are we really going to put up with that?

Alex

Who does admire ABM? I mean, i like Opie but his eye-rolling try to visualize genius/schizophrenia by way of giant equation overlays of Nash thinking says all about this movies' modest aspirations.

As for the picture above, i remember our good-natured berlin patrons loudly chuckling at 'mathematician' Russell Crowe's, short of baring his Hercules-ian chest, doe-eyed teaching to no doubt appropriately aroused female (and male) students.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And actually quite effective in the last 2 Wes Anderson ones.

Quite effective in Wes Anderson's films? Or did those made him look "effective"?

Karol

Dunno. But in Moonrise Kingdom the role of the sincere but bland and slightly incompetent boyscout leader was filled in very well by Norton. As was his role as dogged, but very polite policeman in Budapest Hotel.

[crocodile 8,017]

That's what I mean. The roles were tailored for Norton. He didn't necessarily had to put much effort into them.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not sure if that was the case. Both roles are fairly typical Wes-Anderson supporting characters anyway. Dialogue performed in a rather monotonous, but precise diction. Long pauses. A general detached quality.

[nightscape94 965]

He was quite effective in American History X.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes. In some roles he's quite good actually.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Death To Smoochy. 'Nuff said.

[publicist 4,643]

Took the world by storm.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Taxi Driver is confused in deeply problematic ways, even though it's undeniably potent.

Say wha?

Please elaborate.

You can draw a clear line between Taxi Driver and Fight Club. I don't mean to equate the two films, exactly; Taxi Driver is undeniably superior to Fight Club in practically every way, and is not plagued by the latter's smugness. But Taxi Driver, like Fight Club, is nevertheless so fixated on a charismatic, misanthropic figure and so immersed in his muddled worldview that it struggles to extricate itself.

I can see where you're coming from, but I think Herrmann goes a long way to distance the audience from Travis Bickle's worldview. Everything from the PSYCHO quote, to the crushing polytonal dissonances, to the development of the alto sax theme, all charting his psychic disintegration, which help provide a non-verbal commentary on his actions and general behaviour. It's one of those films that would've been utterly repugnant if scored by a composer with a weaker grasp on human psychology.

In FIGHT CLUB, there's no such third voice challenging Durdern's weltanschauung.

[Harmsway 6]

I don't understand what you are saying. In a more clear language, what is the exact problem that links Taxi Driver and Fight Club? How are they confused? How does that make them problematic? And what charismatic character in Fight Club do you mean?

Taxi Driver and Fight Club are both fascinated by a misanthropic, pseudo-fascistic worldview that they vaguely attempt to reject but never adequately critique. The ending of Taxi Driver may be, to an extent, a rejection of Bickle's point of view, but it is also so resoundingly cynical that it never successfully alleviates it (Jonathan Rosenbaum once mused whether or not Taxi Driver would be as beloved if it had ended with Bickle going to jail, correctly suggesting, I think, that Taxi Driver's moral ambivalence might be absolutely essential to its appeal).

The charismatic character at the center of Fight Club is clearly Tyler Durden, who clearly owns the film beyond that of Norton's unnamed protagonist (even after his "demise," Durden rears his head in the form of the brief provocative flash-frame at the end of the film).

I can see where you're coming from, but I think Herrmann goes a long way to distance the audience from Travis Bickle's worldview. Everything from the PSYCHO quote, to the crushing polytonal dissonances, to the development of the alto sax theme, all charting his psychic disintegration, which help provide a non-verbal commentary on his actions and general behaviour. It's one of those films that would've been utterly repugnant if scored by a composer with a weaker grasp on human psychology.

In FIGHT CLUB, there's no such third voice challenging Durdern's weltanschauung.

I don't disagree. The contrasting voices of Taxi Driver's primary creators--Schrader, Scorsese, De Niro, and Herrmann--result in something deeply fascinating. I just think it's problematic, as well.

[A24 4,338]

I don't understand what you are saying. In a more clear language, what is the exact problem that links Taxi Driver and Fight Club? How are they confused? How does that make them problematic? And what charismatic character in Fight Club do you mean?

Taxi Driver and Fight Club are both fascinated by a misanthropic, pseudo-fascistic worldview that they vaguely attempt to reject but never adequately critique. The ending of Taxi Driver may be, to an extent, a rejection of Bickle's point of view, but it is also so resoundingly cynical that it never successfully alleviates it (Jonathan Rosenbaum once mused whether or not Taxi Driver would be as beloved if it had ended with Bickle going to jail, correctly suggesting, I think, that Taxi Driver's moral ambivalence might be absolutely essential to its appeal).

I think the reason for this is simple. As in all of his movies, Scorsese doesn't like to judge and accuse that what is obvious. He's more interested (fascinated really) that the people we all consider to be bad or corrupted have a good side too.

[publicist 4,643]

I don't think the ending signalizes a 'good' side - it gives bickle a free pass for his actions (if you view it literally). It's a more ambgious take on Bronson's DEATH WISH but i agree that it never would have amounted to something if Bickle would end up in jail. There would be no point - merely the confirmation that then-current law was enforced (yawn).

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

Am I the only person that thinks Toy Story 3 is incredibly overrated?

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

All of them are.

[Mr. Brown 91]

Agreed. I'd say the same about the rest of the Pixar flicks.

I have no idea what is so special about FROZEN or its soundtrack. John Travolta mispronounced that singer's name at the Oscars not because he's a lunkhead, but because he didn't give a f**k and didn't know who the f**k she was.

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

I agree with you about the Frozen soundtrack. The songs have a disposable "pop music" feeling to them and the score is bland.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Pop music shouldn't be swung around as an insult, there's plenty of great pop. FROZEN is just lame, sugary, cloying music. The kind you expect from an X Factor winner or something.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

FROZEN is just lame, sugary, cloying music. The kind you expect from an X Factor winner or something.

Pop music shouldn't be swung around as an insult, there's plenty of great pop.

Actually... no. There isn't.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Pop music shouldn't be swung around as an insult, there's plenty of great pop.

Actually... no. There isn't.

The Beatles, The Stones, The Velvet Underground, The New York Dolls, Patti Smith, Tangerine Dream, Bowie, Roxy Music, The Smiths, Steely Dan, Talk Talk, Belle and Sebastian, Chic, Cocteau Twins, Public Enemy, Nick Cave, Tom Waits, Pet Shop Boys, Pulp... I could go on and on, though it's all relative, of course.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I wouldn't classify most of those artists as pop.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

They're all pop, but can be subclassified into rock, hip-hop, disco etc.

But to quote Andy Partridge from XTC:

“In 1976 I read a tiny review of a group called The Sex Pistols and the journalist was looking for words to describe them and their music. I thought how stupid a lot of writers are, trying to find categories and names for things when surely if you're in a group to be popular and your music becomes popular then you are a pop group, making pop music. Despite what haughty, clever or elitist tags you are given or claim for yourself. If you don't want to get wet stay out of the pool.”

[Quintus 5,399]

Pop music shouldn't be swung around as an insult, there's plenty of great pop.

Actually... no. There isn't.

Not a Beatles fan, then?

[nightscape94 965]

Maybe it doesn't translate the same, but no one in America thinks of The Beatles or Stones when they hear the words "pop music". That's Michael Jackson territory.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Rock ~ Pop

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Depends on whether you mean pop as popular music or pop as a specific style.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Well obviously I mean the former.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah, but I think Koray and nightscape94 (I know your name but I can't remember it) are thinking only of the latter.

[Matt C 454]

Nolan is your man if you need dreary portrayals of earnest man facing earnest moral choices in earnest weighty surroundings. He sure should get a prize for sucking the fun out of movies and making the easily impressionable ponder earnest thoughts: who doesn't want to make people think about surveillance states etc. while watching their gaudy expensive man-in-batsuit junk movies?

That's why I prefer Nolan's Following and The Prestige. Stripped down and more efficient.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wouldn't classify most of those artists as pop.

What?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Maybe it doesn't translate the same, but no one in America thinks of The Beatles or Stones when they hear the words "pop music". That's Michael Jackson territory.

Not even that much anymore, MJ is a completely genre compared to today's music. Pop music as a genre, as Pilgrim was saying, is more of your average Lady Ga-Ga, "Let me take a selfie" song crap.

The Stones? Velvet Underground? Tom Waits? More invasion punk-rock than pop.

As with any art form, though, genre is just a label, a classification for context, like skin color/race. It doesn't really mean anything. Good music (art) is good music (art).

[Quintus 5,399]

Classic Koray Savas!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Koray doesnt understand that the word "pop" doesnt describe a genre. Just like film music doesnt, actually.

[Quintus 5,399]

I just like it when he brings the word 'art' into it.

[A24 4,338]

The Beatles or Michael Jackson ... it's all pop music to me. Talking about 'art', The Beatles are sometimes named an Art pop or Art rock band.

[Quintus 5,399]

Sometimes I wonder if I prefer Wings anyway. Not a fan of The Beatles 'She Loves You' era.

[A24 4,338]

When I talk of The Beatles and their influence on pop music, I always refer to late '60s Beatles.

Wings = Mull Of Kintyre

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I just like it when he brings the word 'art' into it.

But EVERYTHING is art Lee, dont you know?