Popular Post Faleel 5,350 Posted August 13, 2014 Popular Post Share Posted August 13, 2014 Its that time again, this time though, the CR presentation is nearly perfect."Foundations of Stone" or Analyzing the Two Towers CRThe 13th day of August in the the year 2014, by Shire reckoning. JWfan, the Shire...Middle-Earth. The Third Age of this world.Now, where to begin?Ah, yes.Concerning Edits....Disc IGlamdringCompleteElven RopeThis track contains the EE title music, the rarities has an early choral version.The TTT score featurette might feature an alternate version of 1:12 to 1:58 that uses the Fellowship theme.Lost In Emyn MuilThe Lord of the Rings: Tactics has the theatrical version without the music for the EE scene of Frodo and Sam in the rain.The CR has a hybrid of the film version and the early choral version at 1:26, the full early version can be found on the Rarities disc.My PreciousThe CR has the EE ending, the OST track "The Passage of the Marshes" has the theatrical ending.Ugluk's WarriorsThe CR has the EE version, the theatrical version is unreleased.The CR/EE version has more "thudding" percussion and is slightly longer, while the TE version has more "clashy" percussion, for another example of this, compare the ending of Ugluk's Warriors, to the similar music in the Rarities track "The Eaves of Fangorn".The Three HuntersThe CR uses the EE version of the revised version, in the film the very end of the OST track "The Uruk-Hai" is present at approximately 4:40 (or atleast material that sounds almost exactly like it).The OST uses a brassier alternate of the statement of the Rohan theme at 1:30.The Rarities has an early version of the track that instead of transitioning to the Isengard material, transitions into the chase across the plains of Rohan, and concludes with alternates of the "Night Camp" material.In the EE 5:33 to the end of the track was dialed out.The Live to Projection version of this track has various changesThe Banishment of EomerThe CR features the EE opening, 0:40 to 2:52 is the EE insert, The Third Age video game has the TE version..2:52 to the end of the CR track is the film version, that uses the Fellowship theme and more of the "thudding" percussion, the Rarities features an alternate that uses the Isengard theme and the "clashy" percussion.Night CampThe CR has the EE film version, The Rarities has an alternate using the Ent theme.The Rarities version of the Orc argument is the theatrical version.The Rarities has an alternate for the "Look's Like Meat's Back on the Menu Boys!" section.The Rarities track also has two alternate endings, none of all three released endings were used in the film.The Plains of RohanComplete!FangornComplete!The Dead MarshesThe CR has the EE insert from 1:00 to 1:43.Wraiths on WingsComplete!Gandalf The WhiteThe CR features an edited down version of the EE transition (a short statement of the Ent theme was edited out at approximately 3:37) to the revised Shadowfax music, the OST has the (unused) theatrical transition.The TTT Fan-club credits features an alternate of Gandalf's Reveal (2:11 of the CR track)The OST track Forth Eorlingas features an intermediate version of Gandalf's Arrival where he "took a little longer to say hello"The OST track The White Rider features an alternate of the Shadowfax music that uses the Counterpoint to The White Rider theme.The Dreams of TreesComplete!The Heir of NumenorThe CR track features the cue for the EE scene of Gandalf and Aragorn discussing Sauron, and Frodo and Sam.Ent-DraughtComplete!END OF DISC IDISC IIEdorasCR has a mix of two versions of the opening, the OST has the fiddle version isolated, and the EE DVD Scene Selections Menu has the film version.The EE DVD Music Appendix has the gong hit for Eowyn's disappearanceThe Live to Projection version of this track has various changesThe Court of MeduseldCompleteThéoden KingThe CR has the EE version, the OST has the TE versionThe King's DecisionCompleteExodus of EdorasThe CR has an EE insert from 0:00 to 3:19.The Forests of IthilienThe CR has an EE insert at 5:17, the Return of the King game has the TE version.One of the DunedainThe CR has the EE version, the Return of the King game has the TE film versionThe Wolves of IsengardThe CR has the film version, the OST has an alternateThe Live to Projection version of this track has various changesRefuge at Helm's DeepThe CR has the EE insert, The OST has the TE versionThe Voice of SarumanCompleteArwen's FateComplete, The EE Scene Selections menu has the film editThe Story ForetoldCompleteSons of the StewardCR has the EE versionRock and PoolCompleteFaramir's Good CouncilCR has the film edit, the OST has the full recording (?).END OF DISC IIDISC IIIAragorn's ReturnCompleteWar is Upon UsComplete"Where is the Horse and the Rider?"CR has the EE version, OST has the TE versionThe Host of the EldarCompleteThe Battle of the HornburgCompleteThe Breach of the Deeping WallCompleteThe Entmoot DecidesThe TTT score featurette might feature an alternate version of 0:59 - 1:25 that uses the Fellowship themeRetreatCompleteMaster Peregrin's PlanCompleteThe Last March of the EntsThe CR has an alternate, The Third Age game, The Rarities, and the EE DVD Music Appendix have the film version.The EE DVD Music Appendix has additional brass, the LOTR symphony has this as well.The Nazgûl AttackCompleteThéoden Rides ForthThe CR has the film version, The EE DVD Fan Club Credits has an alternate without the choir at 0:43, different brass at 0:47, and without Ben Del Maestro at 1:15.The OST has a clean ending of 0:00 to 2:03, and a louder mix of Ben Del MaestroThe Tales That Really MatterCR has the EE film version, OST has the TE film version.The EE DVD Music Appendix has the original version"Long Ways to Go Yet"CR has the film version of the End Credits, OST has an alternate.The Live to Projection version of this track has various changesEND OF DISC IIIUnsolved MysteriesIs the unused fellowship theme statement from the EE DVD Music Appendix an alternate for Elven Rope or The Entmoot Decides?Why does 4:32 - 4:53 of "The Eaves of Fangorn" sound so much like the TE version of Ugluk's Warriors?Is the film/CR version of Faramir's Good Council a film edit with the extra music heard on the OST being dialed out? or is the OST track an alternate?Comparing the LOTR Symphony CD to the OST/CR.(Timestamps refer mostly to the OST tracks, some timestamps refer to the CR when applicable)DISC II MOVEMENT IIIThe Foundations of Stone/GlamdringThe LOTR symphony uses the first minute and 42 seconds of Foundations of Stone/Glamdring and segues to...The Taming of Smeagol/Lost In Emyn MuilThe Symphony uses the last minute and 45 seconds of The Taming of Smeagol, with additional Shakers in the orchestration under the statement of Gollum's menace and more prominent woodwinds during the bit for Gollum releasing Sam.The Riders of Rohan/The King's Decision and Exodus from EdorasThe Symphony uses 57-3:56 of The Riders of Rohan and segues to...The Black Gate Is Closed/The Heir of NumenorThe Symphony uses the OST version, but with the section at 1:14-1:18 removed.Evenstar/One of the DunedainThe Symphony uses 2:15-5:05 of the CR track, with 3:38-4:08 removed, more prominent Cor Anglais (and no flute?) at 4:08-4:32, and a clean opening of the Rivendell theme at 2:15. The Symphony then segues to....The White Rider/Gandalf the WhiteThe Symphony uses the TE version (CR and OST "hybrid").Treebeard/War Is Upon Us and FangornThe Symphony uses a shortened version of the OST track, and segues to...The Forbidden Pool/The Forests of Ithilien, Rock and Pool, and Faramir's Good Council.The Symphony uses a shortened version of the OST track, with extra orchestration at 0:45-1:07, more prominent cymbal at 2:26-2:33, and more prominent Cor Anglais at 2:56-3:40END OF DISC II MOVEMENT IIIDISC II MOVEMENT IVThe Hornburg/The Battle of the Hornburg.The Symphony uses 3:03-End of the OST track, with more prominent strings, additional (or differently pitched) strings at 3:56-4:08, and an extra aleatoric brass bit (cluster?) at 4:04-4:09. The Symphony then segues to...Forth Eorlingas/Theoden Rides ForthThe Symphony uses the OST track, and segues to...Isengard Unleashed/The Last March of the Ents and Theoden Rides Forth.The Symphony uses the OST track, with the extra brass at 2:18-3:16, and more prominent brass throughout.Gollum's Song/Long Ways To Go YetThe Symphony uses the OST track 0:00-3:55, I don't know if it uses the altered lyrics of the Live to Projection version.END OF DISC II MOVEMENT IVSourcesJim Ware's TTT OST/CR Breakdown and Comparison: http://www.lyndhursthouse.plus.com/ttt_ost_breakdown.pdfJim Ware's TTT Live to Projection Notes: http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdf Gnome in Plaid, darkspine10, enderdrag64 and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Some fun stuff in this one. Lots of recutting in the first three reels! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 That would explain why I find the first half of disc 1 of the CR (except Foundations Of Stone) the least enjoyable part of the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 Oh, I love that section of the score! Least enjoyable is the middle for me, all the traveling to Helm's Deep cues (apart from the Warg fight) and all the Arwen/Elrond/Galadriel stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Lost In Emyn MuilThe Lord of the Rings tactics has the theatrical version without the music for the EE scene of Frodo and Sam in the rain.I'm confused; can you explain what the part that I underlined means? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I suppose it's a video game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Oh, I love that section of the score! Least enjoyable is the middle for me, all the traveling to Helm's Deep cues (apart from the Warg fight) and all the Arwen/Elrond/Galadriel stuffYou dont like Evenstar??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 Oh, I love that section of the score! Least enjoyable is the middle for me, all the traveling to Helm's Deep cues (apart from the Warg fight) and all the Arwen/Elrond/Galadriel stuffSame here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted August 16, 2014 Share Posted August 16, 2014 I didn't say I didn't like it. I said it was the least interesting section of the score for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted August 16, 2014 Author Share Posted August 16, 2014 As a big fan of Eowyn's themes, I really like the EE music for the soup scene. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted August 17, 2014 Share Posted August 17, 2014 I suppose it's a video game.Yep, you're right.Lost In Emyn MuilThe Lord of the Rings tactics has the theatrical version without the music for the EE scene of Frodo and Sam in the rain.The CR has a hybrid of the film version and the early choral version at 1:26, the full early version can be found on the Rarities disc.So, is the full film version without chorus unreleased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Share Posted August 18, 2014 I suppose it's a video game.Yep, you're right.Lost In Emyn MuilThe Lord of the Rings tactics has the theatrical version without the music for the EE scene of Frodo and Sam in the rain.The CR has a hybrid of the film version and the early choral version at 1:26, the full early version can be found on the Rarities disc.So, is the full film version without chorus unreleased?I don't know what you are referring to... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Well, you pointed out that the CR track is a hybrid of the film version and the early version; I'm wondering where I can hear the film version by itself Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 The CR track contains the complete film version, he just also stuffed the same bit of that alternate choral version in there he also put on the OST. He must really love that piece! We finally got the whole thing in the Rarities disc, so it's kinda unnecessary that he put it in the CR too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 We finally got the whole thing in the Rarities disc, so it's kinda unnecessary that he put it in the CR too.Well, there were four years between the CR for T2T and the Rarities. That we got the piece 1.5 times might simply be because the Rarities were barely on the horizon in mid-2006 when HS et al. were working on the CR.Mildly unrelated: is this set still discontinued? EDIT: It is. So are the two others. Hm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Right, but since he already put that same choral bit on the OST, it was odd he put it in again in the CR. Goes against the general theory of the CRs, which otherwise just follows the film with one version of every cue along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Sometimes I wish I just could sit Doug A. down, put a Guinness in front of him, and talk shop about the CRs. He did reveal bits and pieces of the process on his blog years back, but I don't know if this is all still there (EDIT: yep, it is). My favourite anecdote about the CRs is the following quote of HS regarding the DVD contained in the CRs: "So, nobody likes the rubber nub, huh?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Sometimes I wish I just could sit Doug A. down, put a Guinness in front of him, and talk shop about the CRs. He did reveal bits and pieces of the process on his blog years back, but I don't know if this is all still there (EDIT: yep, it is). My favourite anecdote about the CRs is the following quote of HS regarding the DVD contained in the CRs: "So, nobody likes the rubber nub, huh?" That was undoubtedly the worst editing decision on the CRs. Hands down!As a big fan of Eowyn's themes, I really like the EE music for the soup scene.It is fantastic piece of music, especially when it combines with the Gondor theme and I adore the transition to the Rivendell material. Simply gorgeous dramatic flow there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 I love the statement of Eowyn's theme in the CR track "Edoras" if I'm not mistaken it appears just after her conversation with Wormtongue (2:43) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted August 23, 2014 Author Share Posted August 23, 2014 Some fun stuff in this one. Lots of recutting in the first three reels!Just curious, when the Three Hunters/Fangorn Scenes were all one sequence, how were the Isengard and Banishment of Eomer cues arranged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted September 17, 2014 Author Share Posted September 17, 2014 Jim Ware, in The Eaves of Fangorn track on the Rarities archive, is the Isengard theme statement right after the "Valimar!" outburst actually the Theatrical version of Ugluk's Warriors?, or was it actually meant for the Night-camp battle? because it sounds EXACTLY the same as the Theatrical version of Ugluk's Warriors but with choir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 It's Kali Ma! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted September 17, 2014 Share Posted September 17, 2014 Indeed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 Made a few adjustments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted January 6, 2015 Author Share Posted January 6, 2015 So, is the CR version of Faramir's Good Council an actual revised version, or just a film edit?It kind of sounds like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 "Comparing the LOTR Symphony CD to the OST/CR" section added. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The Symphony uses the OST track 0:00-3:55, I don't know if it uses the altered lyrics of the Live to Projection version.Altered lyrics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted January 7, 2015 Author Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdfI really need to revise that (and eliminate the use of the word 'cue'). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 What's wrong with "cue"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Shore doesn't prefer the term "cue" when talking about his music for LotR. He uses the term "longer continous piece" or some such as he usually wrote his music in longer sections. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Pretentious bullshit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The term is technically inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Then how should the word cue be used instead, and what should we use to replace it? I know the word as the small notes that show what other instruments play while your part rests, which you can play at the conductor's discretion, and as the term that synchronizes effects with the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The term is technically inaccurate."longer continuous piece" is a meaningless phrase. Longer then what? Continuous??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The term is technically inaccurate."longer continuous piece" is a meaningless phrase. Longer then what? Continuous???The preferred terms are either 'piece' or 'suite'. A piece may not necessarily be continuous as there are often significant periods of silence between the constituent parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 The term is technically inaccurate."longer continuous piece" is a meaningless phrase. Longer then what? Continuous???The preferred terms are either 'piece' or 'suite'. A piece may not necessarily be continuous as there are often significant periods of silence between the constituent parts.Wouldn't that suggest that pieces separated by silences are then separate pieces? Or does Shore like Korngold write so that these pieces separated by silences flow to each other, taking into consideration key changes etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Potato potatoe, Inky! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Potato potatoe, Inky!I don't like potatoes. They are round and rough and irritating and get everywhere. Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Potato potatoe, Inky!I don't like potatoes.So do all who live to see such vegetables. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to cook with the potatoes that are given us. Gnome in Plaid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,222 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Boil 'em. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Then mash 'em and stick 'em in a stew! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Ware 526 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 Or does Shore like Korngold write so that these pieces separated by silences flow to each other, taking into consideration key changes etc?That's the intention, although it didn't always work that way in practice due to post-production shuffling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnome in Plaid 219 Posted January 7, 2015 Share Posted January 7, 2015 http://www.metronomical.co.uk/ttt_live_notes.pdfI really need to revise that (and eliminate the use of the word 'cue').For some reason I can't seem to access the notes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted January 8, 2015 Author Share Posted January 8, 2015 I think you can still download it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,350 Posted September 19, 2015 Author Share Posted September 19, 2015 And now this one is finished for now, still some mysteries though for example:Is the unused fellowship theme statement from the EE DVD Music Appendix an alternate for Elven Rope or The Entmoot Decides?Why does 4:32 - 4:53 of "The Eaves of Fangorn" sound so much like the TE version of Ugluk's Warriors?Is the film/CR version of Faramir's Good Council a film edit with the extra music heard on the OST being dialed out? or is the OST track an alternate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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