gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 11, 2014 Author Share Posted December 11, 2014 Don't worry, all will make sense in the EE.Do we even know what happens to the Morgul blade after AUJ? I mean, who keeps it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I was able to compare during the marathon.Azog is a great looking, distinct villain. Something LOTR kinda missed, untill Gothmog These Hobbit films don't really have a central villain. Sauron is gone before the battle even begins.Much is made of the release of the Nine, but they barely feature.Azog is the closest thing we got. I never said that!The Hobbit has nothing that comes close to Saruman. (Sauron is quite boring anyway) You don't make any sense, man!The Hobbit doesn't have a strong overarching lead villain. Sauron barely features and disappeared in the first part of film three, so all we are left with is henchmen!Dunno whats so hard to grasp about that.In ROTK one of the changes I found the most annoying was that PJ ommited Sam taking the Rong from the presumed dead Frodo in favor of making it a "surprise" later in the film.In TBOTFA we actually know that Bilbo has the Arkenstone Thorin desires, and this makes for a few very nice scenes of Bilbo struggling between his loyalty to Thorin, and knowing that giving the arkenstone will just make things worse.This gives Freeman a it more to do in this film, thankfully. I feared they were going to try and keep the viewer in the dark about whether Bilbo did or did not pick it up till the moment he reveals it to the Elven King. Instead they finally chose to focus more on the bond between Bilbo and Thorin, which started in reshoots for AUJ, and was not followed up on in DoS at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 In ROTK one of the changes I found the most annoying was that PJ ommited Sam taking the Rong from the presumed dead Frodo in favor of making it a "surprise" later in the film.In TBOTFA we actually know that Bilbo has the Arkenstone Thorin desires, and this makes for a few very nice scenes of Bilbo struggling between his loyalty to Thorin, and knowing that giving the arkenstone will just make things worse.This gives Freeman a it more to do in this film, thankfully. I feared they were going to try and keep the viewer in the dark about whether Bilbo did or did not pick it up till the moment he reveals it to the Elven King. Instead they finally chose to focus more on the bond between Bilbo and Thorin, which started in reshoots for AUJ, and was not followed up on in DoS at all.I think they should have shown more appreciation from Thorin to Bilbo in DoS as it would have made the further bonding more natural in BotFA. And I really loved how they finally focused on Bilbo more, not just as facilitator of things as a person who helps the dwarves out of a physical trouble but on a personal level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The biggest issue DoS has is that it's extreme lack of focus led to it's 3 main characters Bilbo, Thorin and Gandalf being underdevelopped. Very little of the stuborn heroism that Thorin showed in AUJ showed up in DoS. Gandalfs spends too much time away from the main story and Bilbo dissapears to the background in between the Spiders fight and when they finally open the door at Erebor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The biggest issue DoS has is that it's extreme lack of focus led to it's 3 main characters Bilbo, Thorin and Gandalf being underdevelopped. Very little of the stuborn heroism that Thorin showed in AUJ showed up in DoS. Gandalfs spends too much time away from the main story and Bilbo dissapears to the background in between the Spiders fight and when they finally open the door at EreborMy main issue with Thorin is that he is not for the most part a likeable character in DoS (or AUJ). He is haughty to a fault, stubborn, almost childishly proud and has such feeling of sulking entitlement about him that it is difficult to like him. I know he is suposed to be brooding but it can go too far. He treats everybody like dirt and expects automatic respect and goes throwing his kingship around as if he already has it. Yes he was proud in the novel but never to this level of obnoxiousness. I completely understand it at Erebor in DoS when he starts to become obsessed with the gold and the Arkenstone especially but before that he should have been toned down in this department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I found Thorin similarly annoying in the novel, but a lot less courageous and noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I found Thorin similarly annoying in the novel, but a lot less courageous and noble.Oh yes he is a bit annoying and has proud dwarven entitlement there as well but I am just sad Armitage had to be such a grouch all the time in the films. Thorin is just not very likeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Do we even know what happens to the Morgul blade after AUJ? I mean, who keeps it?I suppose Gandalf still has it, so I guess it means PJ is planning on adding a scene in FOTR showing the Witch-King getting it back from him.Will they meet up for tea and then exchange the blade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Aragorn was born in 2931 TA, his father died two years later, and the Battle of the Five Armies occurred in 2941 TA. He could have easily meant AragornIn TTT Aragorn reveals himself to be 87, if I recall correctly. Since The Hobbit takes place about 60 years before that, that would make him 27 at the time of this movie. Remember you cannot apply the official Tolkien timeline on these films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Tea is at 4, and there's plenty of it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I really love that bit. Moving without ever drifting into sentimentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 It might be the most Tolkienesque moment in the film. I dont recall, was it from the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 The final bit of dialogue with Gandalf was also wonderful, taken straight from the book for the most part. Interestingly they chose to treat it very ominously though, this parting.Plus there is the odd assumption that the movie seems to make that they do not see each other in the intervening years when the novel ends with Gandalf's and Balin's visit which suggests Gandalf kept eye on Bilbo at irregular intervals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 It's never stated that Gandalf and Bilbo never meet again. And the assumptions is that they do. Or else Frodo would not even know what Gandalf looks like.Also Gandalfs visits to the Shire are frequent enough for him to be labeled a disturber of the peace, and for small children to know that Gandalf = fireworks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I wonder to what point Gandalf is refering in time from which Bilbo hasn't aged a day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 That line has always been a bit awkward, since Holm was made up to look younger in the prologue.Hopefully any new SE of FOTR will use Freeman instead and the line can be removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Because the film didnt provide any of the detailed info from the appendices regarding Galdalf's dealings in the Shire. His associations with the Dunedain, etc etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yes!But other information in the film contradicts this! OMG it's such a mess PJ screwed up from the first moment! His writers are fucking morons! They might as well have started the trilogy with Legolas beheading 50 Orcs while standing on the wings of a Fell Beast, upside down...trying to rescue his mother! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yes!But other information in the film contradicts this! OMG it's such a mess PJ screwed up from the first moment! His writers are fucking morons! They might as well have started the trilogy with Legolas beheading 50 Orcs while standing on the wings of a Fell Beast, upside down...trying to rescue his mother!AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Yes!...that of course would be AWESOME.Sorry, the masked slipped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 That should be the prologue TBOTFA never had... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 That should be the prologue TBOTFA never had...When PJ goes non-canon, he goes there all the way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Fool of a Fin!Canon? such nonsense. There is the book canon and the film canon.The two never were compatible for an instant! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,359 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I don't think it was.The tea is at 4 dialogue was form the book.Peter Jackson walks past Bilbo with a chair, as he makes his way to Bag End's furniture-auction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I don't think it was.The tea is at 4 dialogue was form the book.Peter Jackson walks past Bilbo with a chair, as he makes his way to Bag End's furniture-auction.I saw PJs daughter's cameo in the Lake-Town opening but I missed PJ completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 I saw PJs daughter's cameo in the Lake-Town opening but I missed PJ completely.OK, just rewatched the film.Thorin DOES shout "DU BEKAR!" when charging out of Erebor.Ah so I did not entirely misremember. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So will I be the first to theorize that this trilogy has just been a huge metaphor for PJ's struggle to reclaim and defend cinematic Middle-Earth without being consumed by the sickness of modern filmmaking lazyness and bloatedness? Thorin cast in the role of tragically heroic misguided director, Bilbo as the sidelined author, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So will I be the first to theorize that this trilogy has just been a huge metaphor for PJ's struggle to reclaim and defend cinematic Middle-Earth without being consumed by the sickness of modern filmmaking lazyness and bloatedness? Thorin cast in the role of tragically heroic misguided director, Bilbo as the sidelined author, etc.OMG. That like totally makes total sense like completely man! Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 So Thorin's theme is PJ's theme and Dragon-Sickness is the CGI theme?Yes, yes. And Arkenstone is the missing directorial skill which bestows him the right to make good pure movies again and summon his teams from across New Zealand to make them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Mr. Bloodboal. Did you read Faleel's post 8 posts above yours? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 When I see the film next week I'll keep my eye out for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted December 11, 2014 Share Posted December 11, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Didn't you read the book?What did you think of Dol Guldur? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,372 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 SUH, are you going to read the book now that you've seen all the films? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted December 12, 2014 Share Posted December 12, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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