Do Johnny's OSTs make for better listening?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It's too bad the labels couldn't get Williams to assemble hypothetical alternate universe 40 minute OST album versions of The Poseidon Adventure, Family Plot and Black Sunday when those scores were released.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Those would have been better.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Is there anywhere with information on why Williams' album arrangements are the way they are, with the track order jumbled up and tracks micro-edited?

Supposedly it is for "listening experience", but I cannot help but wonder HOW that is supposed to work.

 

In some cases, it does make sense to me. "You Are the Pan" as a single track instead of split into two does fit together very well.

And I like "No Man's Land" ending with the action part, rather than starting with it.

"Panaka and the Queen's Protectors" also works quite well when taken together. And I can think of more examples too.

 

But then there is the complete rearranging so that the order not even remotely resembles the film anymore.

So I'm just curious in what way, say, the Phantom Menace OST would be a better listening experience than a more chronological representation?

And specifically, has there ever been a release where anyone involved shared some details in why the album was arranged the way it was?

 

I've got to admit, I have always been quite curious about that.

[publicist 4,643]

It's more about the mixture, quiet/action/suspense/soothing etc. I think Williams just mixes these musical moods and often the movie doesn't have that quite the same way.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I do agree with that to some extent. But then why would they, for example, take an action track from the end of the film, put it near the beginning of the OST,

then take an action track from the begin of the film and put it near the end of the OST?

That does seem to happen and that is where I get really quite curious about the underlying reasoning.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Is an OST supposed to follow the narrative of the film?

[publicist 4,643]

Because, and i speculate here, the shape and form of the latter one may be a better 'overture' to the material to follow. The film narrative is only of such grave importance to film freaks. Most people don't watch movies like TPM religiously again and again so it's unlikely they would even notice.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Indeed!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Sometimes the composer feels that the raw, chronological score doesn't work quite as well as a listening experience when separated from the film. Instead they rearrange it to be more "musical". Staunch C&C advocates who demand only C&C at the expense of a well crafted album will dispute this until they're out of puff.

 

The only times I feel that Williams' albums don't work is when they run too long, which is a symptom of the digital age and the bigger capacity of the CD format.

 

I've found that film score fans generally aren't interested in a wider musical narrative and are more focused on microanalysing individual tracks in a vacuum. They want everything thrown in there whether it works or not. As if to say if a certain track is missing from an expanded release because Williams vetoed it (eg. Hook), that new release is "worthless" and we have to wait until a "more complete" version is produced.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Drax and I are some of the only fans of the ROTJ OST. It really is an awesome album. I don't know if Williams chose to do a single LP instead of a double album as with SW and ESB to represent the longest of the SW scores outside the film, or if someone else made that call, but the result is a perfectly satisfying 40 minute summation of the score, with all the major musical ideas intact, great sequencing and sound quality, and not a dull moment.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

And that's the key - not a dull moment! Staunch C&Cers want everthing including the dull moments, which hurts the listening experience.

 

I know of only a very select few scores that benefit from being C&C. But most Williams scores suffer from it and even he knows that. His album selections and edits might not always be the very best, but at least he tries to filter it down to a more tolerable runtime, which often improves the flow of the music.

 

RotJ is a perfect example of this. And even though I feel deep down that TOD could have used just a tiny bit more padding, it represents the narrative of the film as best as it can. If I wanted to show someone the score who was unfamiliar with it, I'd press play on the Polydor album.

[artguy360 1,843]

I don't know about all his OSTs but Memoirs of a Geisha is a particularly great listening experience. I'm not sure what's different between the OST and the film score, but the former is just a great presentation of great music. I'm sure there are others as well, but Memoirs is especially satisfying. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I prefer the concert suite.

[artguy360 1,843]

The concert suite of Memoirs? IIRC I've listened to it but the different arrangement felt off. I think JW reworked some of the more Japanese sounding pieces for full orchestra. It's been a while since I've listened to it, but I think some other pieces lost some of their emotion as well. Maybe I'll check it out again.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't outright dismiss complete and chronological scores (as it seems many here do when it comes to OSTs) and I do listen to them, of course. Some scores aren't suited to that kind of presentation. There's a time and place for both. I do find it a bit ridiculous when people immediately demand a chronological order for an album when they aren't even familiar with the score or film. As long as it entertains you as presented on the OST, why should chronological order matter?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

On 10/30/2015 at 7:14 PM, king mark said:

I've never listened to an OST again once the expanded version comes out

Thats just stupid,

 

Jaws, Raiders, ET are all superior listening experiences.

 

The new 2 disc Jaws is good for one listen, then go back to the OST.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's hard for me to go back to the expanded versions of ET after finally acquiring the OST. A big part of my frustration with the later releases is they take forever to get anywhere and they're full of dead air time. The OST filters out all those dull moments and fills it in with wonderful concert arrangements. To me, it might be the one absolutely flawless and perfect film score soundtrack album.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The E.T. OST is better than everything as far as music goes.

 

I'll grant you that many scores have massive highlights missing from the OST. In many cases, their omission just seems brutal. Right now, I'm listening to Pick it Up from Star Trek V over and over again. I wanted it ever since I heard it in the film. But I think about it and I can't find a place in that perfect OST album for it. I wouldn't dare tamper with it.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I hold it in almost as high regard as I do for Independence Day. It's probably my second favourite score of all time.

[Tom 4,666]

35 minutes ago, artguy360 said:

The concert suite of Memoirs? IIRC I've listened to it but the different arrangement felt off. I think JW reworked some of the more Japanese sounding pieces for full orchestra. It's been a while since I've listened to it, but I think some other pieces lost some of their emotion as well. Maybe I'll check it out again.

Both the album and concert suite are top-notch.  I think the film score is one of Williams' top 20 scores.  I think the concert suite is one of Williams' top 5 pieces.  The concert version of brush on silk alone puts in the top 10. 

[pete 907]

I like aspects of both. I rarely listen to a score from start to finish, so my main interest is in the individual pieces. As such, the expansions Williams used to do for pieces from ET, The Fury, Jaws etc are usually my preferred versions of those tracks. Tourists on the Menu comes to mind. But I also love on occasion to listen to stretches in order from scores such as Empire Strikes Back and Raiders.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Last night I tried to listen to the OST of The Phantom Menace, but knowing how it plays out in full form now, I can't seem to get used to it anymore.

Also, some custom OST edits sounded better in my memory than on the actual album.

Just some random thoughts:

 

Main Title and the Arrival At Naboo

The grouping of all that brassy music together is an interesting combination.

Unfortunately the real film opening has rather a cool part, so now every time I hear the OST edit, I am disappointed.

 

Jar Jar's Introduction and the Swim to Otoh Gunga

It has been YEARS since I listened to this. Definitely didn't remember there was Tatooine stuff in there! Weird.

 

The Sith Spacecraft and the Droid Battle

Works just about fine. Not sure what the "Sith Spacecraft" opening adds though.

 

The Arrival At Tatooine and the Flag Parade

REALLY sudden change of atmosphere there. I cannot help but wonder about the reason for that.

 

Panaka and the Queen's Protectors

This was a really good combination in my memory. And it does work quite well together.

But not as well as I remember.... Also, I REALLY like the film fade between the end of this track and the "Escape From Naboo" music.

So now that stands out as being missing.

 

The Droid Invasion and the Appearance of Darth Maul

I definitely like how this one has pretty much all "Droid March" stuff grouped together.

I do end up missing the "cool officially unreleased bit" though.

And the change to the DotF part at the end sounded VERY awesome in my memory.

But not so much in reality.

 

Qui-Gon's Noble End

This one just about sounds right to me. At "Darth Maul appears" fanfare leading into the "Escape from Naboo" action music works quite nicely.

 

 

Not sure what purpose the above post serves. But I felt like writing it....