Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 16 hours ago, Brundlefly said: I'm not sure about that. Here's my Jerry Goldsmith Flop 10: Not Without My Daughter Bad Girls Along Came a Spider Alien Nation Runaway King Solomon's Mines Criminal Law Mr. Baseball Congo The Vanishing Bad Girls really underwhelmed me in every perspective. A musically little inspired copy of former action scores with a slightly changed texture. You basically already know all of it, only this time it sounds kinda western-like. I know, I exaggerate, but considering it's Goldsmith it's one of his comparatively poorest efforts. I can understand that entire list to an extent, with the exception of Congo and Bad Girls. Though I don't think either one should be on a list of his greatest works (I certainly wasn't suggesting Bad Girls as a score that would make your top 10), to my ears they were both very solid scores with some wonderful highlights. I did share a 9+ minute suite of Bad Girls when I recommended it (albeit ranked #4 out of 5) further up in this thread -- do you not like *that* material? If you didn't, I don't know why you bought the album! Not Without My Daughter is a "meh" score to me, but I also kinda don't understand the extreme hate towards that score. I mean, the movie is offensively racist and I guess the score suffers by being associated with it, but I think the music has its moments. I'd rather listen to it than Extreme Prejudice any day, and that score seems to have many more fans which I have trouble understanding. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Runaway is rad, man. It's funky and hip to the jive. Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 7 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: I can understand that entire list to an extent, with the exception of Congo and Bad Girls. Though I don't think either one should be on a list of his greatest works (I certainly wasn't suggesting Bad Girls as a score that would make your top 10), to my ears they were both very solid scores with some wonderful highlights. I did share a 9+ minute suite of Bad Girls when I recommended it (albeit ranked #4 out of 5) further up in this thread -- do you not like *that* material? If you didn't, I don't know why you bought the album! Not Without My Daughter is a "meh" score to me, but I also kinda don't understand the extreme hate towards that score. I mean, the movie is offensively racist and I guess the score suffers by being associated with it, but I think the music has its moments. I'd rather listen to it than Extreme Prejudice any day, and that score seems to have many more fans which I have trouble understanding. The main problem I have with Bad Girls is not that it is badly written (although it is as well underwhelming in that regard). I can also enjoy it a little. It's just that nothing is new in this score. It's basically Rambo with a western and a retarded 90s texture, but it never exceeds the former score in any perspective. There has to be a Flop 10 and in my opinion there are too many scores that are much better or slightly better than Bad Girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 Why did Goldsmith need to reinvent himself? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 He didn't need to, alas, 'Bad Girls'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 59 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Why did Goldsmith need to reinvent himself? Every composer needs to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 But why for Bad Girls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted July 28, 2018 Author Share Posted July 28, 2018 1 hour ago, kaseykockroach said: But why for Bad Girls? Because it's the missing ingredient of that score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted July 28, 2018 Share Posted July 28, 2018 No, the soundtrack cover just needs more tits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted July 29, 2018 Author Share Posted July 29, 2018 I'm currently getting acquainted with Take a Hard Ride. So far a very enjoyable score with much more subtle parts than 100 Rifles and some exciting action cues. But I know what you mean, @Yavar Moradi, with your comment about the synthesizer for the bad guys. It's maybe a bit retarded, but I don't think it's disturbing the score. What I'm really going crazy about is the sound quality. Outstanding! Wasn't this recorded the same year as The Wind and the Lion? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted September 11, 2018 Author Share Posted September 11, 2018 I have to say a few things: "Cliff Dwelling Battle" from Take a Hard Ride is one of the most fun cues ever written! It is a shame that "No Choice" from 100 Rifles is just available in mono. On the hifi-system it's not that grave, but when you put on the headphones the quality difference between the mono and the stereo tracks is huge! Stagecoach is a lovely little, very traditional score, like The Missouri Breaks. Nothing to go mad about, but publicist's comment about it isn't justified either. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 8, 2018 Author Share Posted October 8, 2018 I recently watched 100 Rifles and Rio Conchos. 100 Rifles is a surprisingly entertaining movie with two great leads and a good balance between humorous, adventurous and serious scenes. The emotional parts are kept subtle, the coolness is not overemphasized and when the movie strikes a more serious note, it doesn't get ridiculous at all. Rio Conchos was even more surprising. The acting is sublime, the drama is way more down-to-earth than in most other westerns of that era and above all the style mostly seems like a classic western, but few pre-developments towards the italo western shine through. I've heard Hour of the Gun is supposed to be another great western movie that is an antithesis of the same director's former western, also covering the legend of Waytt Earp. Rio Lobo is said to be a masterpiece and moreover the final film from Howard Hawks. Looking forward to these two! On 6/26/2018 at 11:42 PM, Yavar Moradi said: In case anyone cares, here's how I would rank LLL's Goldsmith western sale titles, in order of priority: 1. Rio Lobo -- a more subtle and melancholy score that gets under your skin and grows on you: [...] 2. Bandolero! -- I love the whistled main theme though I understand if some don't; great themes and action music in this but it also has a more contemplative side I like: [...] 3. Take A Hard Ride -- This has one of Jerry's best western themes and the highlights are incredible, but fair warning to those who might be turned off by the occasionally abrasive/unsettling synths for the villain: [...] 4. Bad Girls -- Aside from the synth keyboard performances of the main theme which are very dated 90s sounding (and probably responsible for the poor reception this score had in the past), this is incredible music every bit on the level of Jerry's 60s and 70s western efforts. Listen particularly to the dark latter cue in this: [...] 5. Stagecoach / The Loner -- This is a very nice score, very pleasant and folksy with catchy themes. It just lacks the badass moments of the other four albums listed above. In fact the most badass part of the CD is the TV music for The Loner. [...] Where would you rank the scores of 100 Rifles and Rio Conchos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 8, 2018 Share Posted October 8, 2018 16 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: Rio Lobo is said to be a masterpiece and moreover the final film from Howard Hawks. The second part is right, the first is...let's say i wonder were you dug up that critical opinion. It's a rather bad and tired reworking of several Hawksian traits. A hard slog, Jerry notwithstanding, but HOTG is a really good movie (with Garner and Robards in plum roles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 28, 2018 Author Share Posted October 28, 2018 I started listening to Rio Lobo and it was immediately clear that this is my second favourite after 100 Rifles. It's somehow the complete opposite of that score. It's calm and reserved and reminds me more of a classic western, instead of an italo western. The themes are beautiful, the instrumentation is frugal and extraordinary. It's hard for me to classify the general mood of the score. I don't know whether it sounds melancholic, joyous, insidious... that's the genius of Goldsmith's emotionally multilayered scoring (died in 1991) and it shows here. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 28, 2018 Share Posted October 28, 2018 Yup, I adore Rio Lobo. Glad you do too. Kinda thought you’d prefer Rio Conchos. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,534 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 On 7/28/2018 at 5:09 AM, kaseykockroach said: Runaway is rad, man. It's funky and hip to the jive. Fuckin' A!!!! It gets nowhere near the love that it deserves. I'd like to add EXTREME PREJUDICE to this list, as I've always regarded it as a modern western. ARRIVALS is fantastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Syths tend to scare these nerds away, but not me. I dig that stuff, y’hear? Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,534 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 I hear ya, dude. I hear ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 hour ago, Richard said: I'd like to add EXTREME PREJUDICE to this list, as I've always regarded it as a modern western. ARRIVALS is fantastic. I have a huge affection for that score for whatever reason and agree with you on counting it as one of Goldsmith's western scores, but Arrivals is the dullest track on the album. In general, I wouldn't have expected his western scores to be such an eclectic gold mine. So far my favourites are: 100 Rifles (divine) Rio Lobo (interestingly subtle) Extreme Prejudice (badassness meets melancholy) Rio Conchos (classic and multilayered) Take a Hard Ride (beautifully euphoric) Stagecoach (sweet) I still have to listen to The Great Train Robbery, One Little Indian, Hour of the Gun and Bandolero! and reconsider what I said about Bad Girls (which should at least not be heard directly after 100 Rifles). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 1 minute ago, Brundlefly said: The Great Train Robbery Wut?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Just now, publicist said: Wut?? That is the title of a... movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Which is...a western? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 At least, that's what I thought. I mean the Sean Connery movie. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 29, 2018 Share Posted October 29, 2018 Right timeframe, wrong continent. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2018 Author Share Posted October 29, 2018 Oops. I always thought it was a western, because train robberies usually take place in the west (in movies). Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,534 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 Quality! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 At first glance, One Little Indian looks much less like a western. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,534 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 I know its stretching it, a bit, but...couldn't we include OUTLAND, in this category, after all its often called "HIGH NOON in space"? HIGH MOON, anyone? Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 Not the score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 2 hours ago, Brundlefly said: Not the score. Well on that criteria including Extreme Prejudice seems like a bit of a stretch, too. Why doesn't One Little Indian look like a western to you? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 30, 2018 Author Share Posted October 30, 2018 12 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Well on that criteria including Extreme Prejudice seems like a bit of a stretch, too. Outland is more in line with Alien. It's sci-fi and horror, although the film is indeed sci-fi and western instead. Extreme Prejudice on the other hand got that modernized western-mexican flair as well as that certain coolness. Therefore I think it is just a "bit of a stretch", if at all. 18 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Why doesn't One Little Indian look like a western to you? The title includes "Indian" and there is a camel on the cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 "Indian" is what Native Americans were commonly referred to as back then, and the title refers to an old (and common) rhyme, which was even turned into a song in the 1800s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Little_Indians I don't know what the story is with the camel but I know its presence in the film is supposed to be unusual and comedic...and the movie poster also has horses on it. Anyway, listen to the score and you'll definitely realize it's a western, aside from the middle eastern-ish (not Indian) riffs on Lawrence of Arabia which are the weakest part of the score IMO and the whole thing plays much better once those are easily edited out. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted October 30, 2018 Share Posted October 30, 2018 "If you're a camel, you soon learn to put up with anything". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 I didn't know that Indian was once a term for Native American in english. Although in german you mostly refer to them as 'Indianer'. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I'm really unfamiliar with the above mentioned Westerns. I guess those Jerry goldsmith Westerns aren't my kind of Westerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 I think 'One Little Indian' is right up your alley. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 Was just playing that one last night! S'okay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 6 hours ago, Brundlefly said: I didn't know that Indian was once a term for Native American in english. You've never heard of "cowboys and Indians"? It's even a magazine! Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: You've never heard of "cowboys and Indians"? It's even a magazine! It's the good old childhood game! Now, especially in Canada, we cannot call them that anymore. We have to say something like natives, aboriginals, or First Nations. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 31, 2018 Author Share Posted October 31, 2018 In our english class we were always taught that we must not refer to 'Indianer' as Indians but instead as Native Americans. It was said to be a false friend. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted October 31, 2018 Share Posted October 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: In our english class we were always taught that we must not refer to 'Indianer' as Indians but instead as Native Americans. It was said to be a false friend. False friend. Ha! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted November 8, 2018 Share Posted November 8, 2018 I'd like to announce our return to the regular Goldsmith Odyssey with our latest episode, covering Jerry's first three (out of six total) scores for the long-running classic western series, Gunsmoke. And we have a truly special surprise, in that we are premiering these three complete Goldsmith western scores in very good-sounding MUSIC ONLY form for our listeners, thanks to collector Ron Burbella who had some of them on reel-to-reel tape he had acquired some time ago. These are incredibly varied works, with something for everyone -- don't miss your chance to hear what is effectively NEW Goldsmith! https://www.buzzsprout.com/159614/853743-episode-14-gunsmoke-doc-judge-the-blacksmith-the-wake-1960?fbclid=IwAR0k7yIdg6xGfYb4GlxYXPox8QurAUa5ehN--8D97YO6behVGvuaFrcaIVM Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 12, 2018 Author Share Posted November 12, 2018 Rio Lobo - not only a great score, but also a great movie. A prime example of an usual, decent western, becoming an unusual, great western, because of the phenomenal direction, music and performances. This is a movie that enjoys showing us scene after scene, instead of showing us a stiltedly coherent movie. Movements, gestures, mimics and many other technical and artistic details - that is what counts in Rio Lobo! The film gains a rather special kind of momentum. Whoever doesn't enjoy the moment that is just being watched, instead waiting for the flick to move on, will be bored! There should be more movies like this. Digging for Goldsmith western scores, who has expected to find a cineastic chest full of silver? On the other hand, it was the 60s, when the maestro's bad movie reputation hasn't existed yet. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Yeah Jerry certainly scored a few bad movies in the 50s and 60s, but nothing like what he'd be scoring in the 70s. I've never seen Rio Lobo, and I'm much more excited to do so now, after reading what you wrote. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted November 20, 2018 Author Share Posted November 20, 2018 I have to take back what I said about Bad Girls. Every score is a disappointment that you listen to after 100 Rifles which set the bar much too high, especially for Bad Girls. That said, I like Bad Girls (and of course bad girls). It got a nice main theme and some enjoyable action cues. However, I do not admire Bad Girls in any way, because it is not an impressive musical effort, it's not like Jerry reinvented himself (or added any new aspect to what he has already done), it is simply enjoyable. BTW, 0:05-0:14 of "Rescued" sounds like Masada. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 It's bad - at best in an amusing way (synclavier) at worst in a flogging Rambo kind of way. It's Goldsmith so it's bound to have some redeeming parts but boy, are they sparse. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,508 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 BAD GIRLS is one of my favourite western scores by Goldsmith. Wonderful. Don't remember if I've seen the film or not, but it's not high on my list of priorities, let's put it that way. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 There's as always no accounting for taste. It can be objectively stated, though, that in regards to inventiveness, colour or melody it's no match for Goldsmith's other western output. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,508 Posted November 20, 2018 Share Posted November 20, 2018 Oh, totally agreed. I'm just a sucker for 90s Goldsmith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 The second season of The Goldsmith Odyssey opens with some wonderful western scoring you may not be familiar with:http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/927433-episode-16-have-gun-will-travel-flaming-star-1960 Do check it out and let me know what you think! The cue Jerry wrote for Flaming Star (1960) in particular just keeps growing on me the more I hear it, and his score for "A Head of Hair" from Have Gun Will Travel I knew I loved, right as soon as I heard that fantastic main theme... Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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