Mari 279 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 First, there is a glimmer of hope of the concerto being recorded ... in the pre-concert conversation Dale Clevenger stated that he would like to record the concerto, and hopes it will be recorded. I really hope someone with technical knowledge posts thei thoughts, because I can't and only share how the music moved my emotions.The 1st, 3rd, and 5th movements were beautiful, lyric, melodic, and spine-tnging. The 2nd movement was atonal and percussive (like "The Motorcade") and the 4th movement was a lively and energetic scherzo.There is more I would like to say but this internet connection keeps logging me out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 BUGGERR!!!I can't stand not having access to this piece. Someone must have recorded it in the concert? Mari? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari 279 Posted November 30, 2003 Author Share Posted November 30, 2003 Sorry Morn, I don't have the equipment to record it, but after hearng this wonderful music, I am seriously considering buying a recordng device before the Tuesday concert.I truly believe that this is some of the best music JW has ever written.Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 Sorry Morn, I don't have the equipment to record it, but after hearng this wonderful music, I am seriously considering buying a recordng device before the Tuesday concert.KathyI think a minidisk recorder with a good microphone would be the way to go.Pllleeeease record it for us,You are our only hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Next_Spielberg 0 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 John Williams' Horn Concerto offered viewers the world-premiere of Concerto for Horn and Orchestra as well as a glimpse of Mr. Williams' humor and personality. Every Williams piece brought thunderous applause from the crowd that was thrilled by the conductor and his work with Dale Clevenger and the Chicago Symphony Ochestra. Beginning with Sound the Bells! and following through with Tributes! John Williams wowed the crowd and won thier vigorous applause as he wet the audience appetite for more. This was followed by John Williams new work Concerto for Horn and Orchestra which really consists of five movements, Angelus, The Battle of the Trees, Pastorale, The Hunt, and finally Nocturne.the first movement begins with a distant angelus bell. The Battle of the Trees comes next and musically conveys the celtic poem in which trees become warriors and battle each other. This is followed by the nostalgic Pastorale. The Hunt is a traditional example of chase music. Nocturne represents the slow winding down after a long day. All five parts reflect Williams life long love of the horn, and were written for horn player Dale Clevenger. These are all prime examples of classic Williams music. Then comes the JFK suite and several pieces from Far and Away. The theme from Schindlers List is followed by Adventures on Earth fron E.T. and is in turn followed by the Love Theme from Star Wars: Episode 2 (which is not in the program). Then Star Wars is performed (also not in the program). The presentation is concluded by the NBC nightly news theme. The Star Wars encores were enthusiastically welcomed by the audience, which honored Mr. Williams with several standing ovations, some wearing thier hands raw and red with vigorous clapping. The experience will undoubtedly leave a lasting impression for audience members of all ages. If you didn't catch Mr. Williams in Chicago there is always London in 2005! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 This is so exciting, I wish I could have been there. I do hope the concert is recorded, who's music director at Chicago? Daniel Barenboim? Well, I do hope they record it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari 279 Posted November 30, 2003 Author Share Posted November 30, 2003 I think a minidisk recorder with a good microphone would be the way to go.Pllleeeease record it for us,You are our only hope.LOLThanks for the advice K.M. .... i'll see what I can do. A few more thoughts about the concerto.I've tried to think of his move music that has a simiilar "feel" and the 3rd mvt, wihich is almost a duet between the horn and oboe, makes me thnk of "Across The Stars" mixed with "Binary Sunset."The 5th mvt created (for me) the same mood as "Angela's Prayer."I haven't been able to think of a piece to match the 1st mvt yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari 279 Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 Now that I'm back home and the board is back online, here is my full review of the concerto, and no, K.M. I was not able to record it ... sorry! Concerto for Horn and OrchestraAngelus "Far far away, like bells At evening pealing"The Battle of the Trees "Swift Oak ... Stout Guardian of the Door"Pastorale "There Came a Day at Summer's Full"The Hunt "The Hart Loves the Highwood"Nocturne "The Crimson Day Withdraws"Angelus: began slowly, with the horn muted, and the distant pealing of bells. The sound gradually grew louder and richer as more of the orchestra joined in. The orchestra reached full voice, with the strings soaring, and the horn call eloquently rising above, and I thought to myself, this is classic JW at his finest.The Battle of the Trees: atonal, and percussive, truly evocative of a battle. Dale Clevenger mentioned that it was the most difficult movement to master. It had the same "feel" for me as "The Motorcade" or "Cua River, Vietnam."Pastorale: soft, and touched with melancholy, beginning plaintively on the oboe with the horn answering back. JW mentioned that it is about nostalgia, and I also felt it was about longing for someone or something (both the instrumentation and the mood put me in mind of "Across the Stars" and "Binary Sunset").The Hunt: Dale Clevenger did mention in the pre-concert conversation that it is a scherzo and it was lively, energetic and fun. There is a woodcut of a hunter with his horn in the program and you can almost imagine the picture coming to life while listening to the music.Nocturne: lyrical, melodic and incredibly beautiful. JW mentioned he had written it for the horn to sing. It is almost like a prayer at the end of the day, and the mood reminded me of "Angela's Prayer." It is probably my favorite movement of the concerto. The critics have mentioned that this is not a virtuoso showcase for Mr. Clevenger. JW and Dale Clevenger have both said that it is more like a tone poem or a suite and is an exploration of the different colors or moods that the horn can evoke, which I would argue, is another way of showing mastery of an instrument. Mr. Clevenger also said that when he first saw the full score, he thought it was too difficult and that he wouldn't be able to play it. He has mastered it so well and played it so beautifully, that perhaps the true difficulty can't be judged by anyone not an expert.I don't know if John Williams, Dale Clevenger or someone from the CSO checked the board, or if it is only coincidence, but in the pre-concert conversations, they addressed some of the items we had discussed: JW said that he's not really erudite, and then went on to describe the concept of the collective unconscious which was "written about by Jung and others." He then went on to mention the writers of the poetic quotes: Dickinson, Wordsworth and Anonymous.As I already mentioned, Dale Clevenger has stated that he would like to record the concerto, and, before the last concert, he stated that JW would also like to record it, either in Chicago or London. He said the only barrier at this time is money.Oh, and K.M., Mr. Clevenger also said he would like to perform it at other concerts and hopes it will enter the standard repertoire for horn players, so hopefully you will have a chance to hear it.Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekUYoda 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 The critics have mentioned that this is not a virtuoso showcase for Mr. Clevenger. JW and Dale Clevenger have both said that it is more like a tone poem or a suite and is an exploration of the different colors or moods that the horn can evoke, which I would argue, is another way of showing mastery of an instrument. Mr. Clevenger also said that when he first saw the full score, he thought it was too difficult and that he wouldn't be able to play it. He has mastered it so well and played it so beautifully, that perhaps the true difficulty can't be judged by anyone not an expert. Kathy, you couldn't have said it better. That review was full of prunes. If ever I have heard a virtuoso showcase for the horn, this was it! (What else could you even expect from him!) And Mr. Clevenger said "I got a couple movements in the mail. And they were very nice. Then I got another movement in the mail. And it was very hard." Anything he says is hard has to be virtuosic! The poor guy has been trying to retire for years and they keep having auditions but they can't find anyone good enough to replace him. There's a (true, because I know the guy) story about a horn player who went to audition for a commercial jingle gig, and the whole audition was just a pianiss-iss-issimo entrance on a high C. That's it. They figure (correctly), that if you have such a command of the instrument that you can make that treacherous an entrance while under that much pressure, you can do anything Mr. Williams wrote one of those entrances in the concerto - two, almost, if you count the B-flat entrance the previous bar. I was totally amazed by the concerto and I hope its published soon - it made me want to go home and play it right that minute! I will have to post my thoughts on the concerto later because I'm not at home where my notes are. But I do remember that I loved what Mr. Clevenger said during the Saturday pre-concert talk... "Live music isn't perfect.... it's wonderful." More later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well,that is of little comfort.They MAY record it,they MAY play it again.MAYBE i'll be on c.d. someday.MAYBE the'll also find the missing ToD tapes at the same time,MAYBE we'll have Family Plot released on c.d. someday,maybe...K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthHornPlayer 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Well I truly envy all of you who got to watch history, this concertois really great news for the horn world. JW has written some of themost famous horn lines in his movie music that it is only rightthat he finally makes the horn come front and center, afterallwhen asked "what is the most important instrument in movie music" he responded quickly, "the horn or course"Speaking as a professional horn player I can tell you all that thisconcerto will not go away and die. It will be programed aroundthe world. Horn players are very motivated by this type of thing, they will learn it and they will play it and that means youwill all get to hear it.I find the high c <ppp> story quite funny. It does seem like someonewho doesn't play horn would find that difficult, afterall it is for mostplayers, but as any kind of judge of mastery is completly idiotic.Would someone judge a car only by its acceleration? Would wejudge a JW soundtrack by its cover art only?Well, it is a good day for horn players and those who loveJW's music. I can't wait for the sheet music to become available. Doesanyone know how long this process would take? I would loveto come on here later and express my opinons on it.I was a bit worried when I came on here Sunday and thesite was down, I was really looking forward to your stories andam very glad now to read them! Thanks so much and keep themcoming!DHP()< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Reading Mari's review of the Horn Concerto, reminded me also of the Bassoon Concerto, which I think is similar to the Horn one (the trees as te main inspiration, for example). "The Five Sacred Trees" is indeed one of Williams' most intimate and deepest concert composition so far, IMHO. I think that Williams has been really brave to compose a new piece for Horn, because the musical literature about this instrument is really hard and difficult to relate with. Let's hope this will be recorded and performed again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 Oh, and K.M., Mr. Clevenger also said he would like to perform it at other concerts and hopes it will enter the standard repertoire for horn players, so hopefully you will have a chance to hear it.Kathyoh well,at least I didn't hear it.It must be even worse to have heard the piece and not beeing able to play it back as the memory of it slowly fades into oblivion.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari 279 Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 I will have to post my thoughts on the concerto later because I'm not at home where my notes are. But I do remember that I loved what Mr. Clevenger said during the Saturday pre-concert talk... "Live music isn't perfect.... it's wonderful."Kaitlin, I look forward to reading your thoughts about the concerto. Did you have a chance to study with Mr. Clevenger? I really enjoyed the second half of the talk when Mr. Clevenger played snippets from the concerto, explaining what he was doing as he went along, and I thought his students must thank their lucky stars every day to have such a gifted man as their instructor. Well, it is a good day for horn players and those who love JW's music. I can't wait for the sheet music to become available.While I have no answer as to when the sheet music will become available, Mr. Clevenger mentioned that the concerto can be performed by full orchestra, chamber ensemble or simply with piano accompaniment (as he did in his first full run-through at Mr. Williams home in California), which will make it more accessible to a wider audience.Reading Mari's review of the Horn Concerto, reminded me also of the Bassoon Concerto, which I think is similar to the Horn one (the trees as te main inspiration, for example). "The Five Sacred Trees" is indeed one of Williams' most intimate and deepest concert composition so far, IMHO.Yes, I fully agree Lord Maurizio. If I were to compare the Horn Concerto against any of the other concert works, the Bassoon Concerto (my personal favorite) does come the closest in terms of emotional impact and style. Speaking of trees, or wood in this case, when JW started writing the concerto, he tried to find five medieval woodcuts depicting the horn in the various moods he wanted to express (the hunt, a call to arms, etc.), but was only able to locate one. There is one woodcut in the program book which is similar to the print JW found.Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mari 279 Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 The Chicago Sun Times also reviewed the Horn Concerto, and that report can be found here Kathy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jw2285gd 0 Posted December 5, 2003 Share Posted December 5, 2003 I am really excited to hear this piece, maybe sometime between 2004 and 2005 he will record this piece, with the LSO, or the CSO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeekUYoda 0 Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Kaitlin, I look forward to reading your thoughts about the concerto. Did you have a chance to study with Mr. Clevenger? I really enjoyed the second half of the talk when Mr. Clevenger played snippets from the concerto, explaining what he was doing as he went along, and I thought his students must thank their lucky stars every day to have such a gifted man as their instructor. No, I didn't have a chance to take a lesson. But my teacher studied with him, so I've gotten some of his widsom vicariously and it's all been wonderful. And a friend of mine moved to Chicago a couple years ago to be around all the amazing horn playing that goes on there and she's taken many many lessons from him, so I've heard amazing things about him from her. I got to talk to him for a few minutes after the concert and he was very kind and gracious, but he was more interested in going to party with Mr. Williams, I think. :-) I'll get the rest of my thoughts up soon, I promise! One of the things that went through my mind as I was listening was how difficult it would be to represent the magnificent orchestral parts in a dinky little piano reduction... I wonder who the pianist was during that first read-through. I would have thought it might be Mr. Williams, just playing from memory. But if there's a reduction out there... wow. Any ideas on how we can get our collective hands on it? DarthHornPlayer, it really is a good day for horn players! (There seem to be quite a few of us running around on this site -woohoo!). If I may ask, who do you play with? K.M., I'm not sure which is worse - to not have heard it or to have heard it and be forgetting it. I sure wish I could hear it again - I still remember the theme from the Pastorale and some bits of the Nocturne but the rest is gone and that's horribly depressing. There were several microphones above the stage... does anyone know how to find out if they were on and if a recording was made even for secret archival purposes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Very early when I started to like film scores,there was no VHS to play back the movie at will,and I was too shy to buy soundtracks albums in case someone saw me(it was considered extremely nerdy and gay then,and I was a sensitive teenager).So I remember it was VERY frustrating trying to recollect themes from films I saw at the cinema.Seems you can play back some of the music for a few hours or a day,then you can't anymore.also,I find it hard to believe that live concerts that offer new works aren't recorded in some way or another.I mean what's the expense of placing a tape or a recording device of some sort in the path of one of the amplifiers or monitoring equipment.I just don't see any logistical problems except remembering to turn the "on" switch.Are recordings just not made because of laziness or no one really cares?K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hector J. Guzman 1 Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 I never replied back, but the review makes me want to hear the work. I hope it's sooner than later, though I might "invent" an idea on my mind of what it might sound, surely it will not be what I think, nonetheless, I'm pretty sure it's an exciting piece. Williams SoundingsLos Angeles PhilharmonicJohn Williams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted December 22, 2003 Share Posted December 22, 2003 You guys have no problem listening to own crappy bootlegged recordings? I rather wait for a official professional recording, which is just a matter of time and patience. ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Better to have a bootleg than nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 How mighty strange of you, Morn. I rather wait and hear it for the first time in full glory. How about them apples?Must you have it all? Good things come to those with patience.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melange 446 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Must you have it all? Good things come to those with patience.Where on earth did you learn that?. Those who wait, often wait and wait...and wait. They often miss wonderful opportunities that may not come again, because they're looking for the ideal situation to arise. In my life, i've learned to do the opposite and jump in when i see an opening. Sometimes you get burned. But in my recent life it's certainly been the best approach.Melange - Has somehow twisted this thread into a philosophical discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 When I listen to a crappy recording, it makes me appreciate a good one even more when it comes along,so nothing is lost.K.M.Sad he will never have a clean recording of the original "Satellite Celebration" and "E.T. Botanicus" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,346 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Must you have it all? Good things come to those with patience.Where on earth did you learn that?. Those who wait, often wait and wait...and wait. They often miss wonderful opportunities that may not come again, because they're looking for the ideal situation to arise. In my life, i've learned to do the opposite and jump in when i see an opening. Sometimes you get burned. But in my recent life it's certainly been the best approach.Melange - Has somehow twisted this thread into a philosophical discussion. It depends on the situation. You start shooting when you see a shadow of the man you're are hired to assassin. I, OTOH, have patience and wait till I got a good clear shot. You scared him. I killed him. ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 Good things come to those with patience. And even those without. They just get something smaller in the waiting time. Morn - Wondering at the analogy of life being like a hitman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Sad news -- Dale Clevenger has passed away. I'll be celebrating his artistry by listening to the last movement of the JW horn concerto. MrJosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,293 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Aw. CSO performers give private lessons to Chicago College of Performing Arts students and when I was there I had a classmate who had the privilege of studying with him as a freshman. He always told me Clevenger was an awesome guy and teacher, and apparently used JW's concerto as a teaching tool sometimes....my friend always said it was freaking impossible to play lol. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,287 Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 On 06/01/2022 at 9:15 PM, mrbellamy said: Aw. CSO performers give private lessons to Chicago College of Performing Arts students and when I was there I had a classmate who had the privilege of studying with him as a freshman. He always told me Clevenger was an awesome guy and teacher, and apparently used JW's concerto as a teaching tool sometimes....my friend always said it was freaking impossible to play lol. A shame he never recorded it (especially with his own orchestra, the CSO is a great band), but the version on Naxos is pretty great. Still, RIP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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