A24 4,338 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Here's a list of Dutch Director Paul Verhoeven's English spoken films.Flesh and Blood (1985)**1/2: Funny, raw and entertaining.Robocop (1987)***: Major break in Hollywood for Verhoeven. Funny, violent and entertaining.Total Recall (1990)**1/2: Verhoeven has now access to muchos dollars. Entertaining.Basic Instinct (1992)***1/2: Perhaps Verhoeven's best film. Stylish thriller and highly entertaining. Very well-written script. Showgirls (1995)*: Boy o' boy!Starship Troopers (1997)**1/2: Funny, over the top and entertaining.Hollow Man (2000)*: Not funny and not so entertaining. 2004? It already been four years since his last movie. Is his career over? Did Hollywood turned its back on him? ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 His new production will be the Dutch Zwartboek. He will direct it and it'll come out in 2005.- Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Interesting...I've heard that he's planning to make a movie version of one of those Swedish Mankell crime novels.Sounds like a job for Goldsmith to me.Marian - who needs the Starship Troopers DVD, not because he finds it funny, but because he considers it a very good satire. And of course also because of Poledouris' iso score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Verhoeven has come back home to us, and we welcome him with open arms.I hope Rogier van Otterloo is no longer working though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 You guys can have him, Steef. Dan--who thinks Verhoeven (or just Carolco) ruined Total Recall's potential utterly and completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Whatever... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Awalt 0 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I never got the whole Verhoven thing. Perhaps if I'd seen his films from Europe, I might feel differently, and I think Robocop is fun, but beyond that he's made some real trash in the U.S. (although I like his films in the respect that we got some good Goldsmith scores attached to them and some cool Rob Bottin effects in Total Recall). But stuff like Basic Instinct and Showgirls is just an embarassment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 But stuff like Basic Instinct and Showgirls is just an embarassment.Don't put these two titles in one and the same sentence, please! Basic Instinct is no embarrassment. That was a very good thriller with a very strong female lead. ----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Total Recall is a very good film with one of Jerry's best scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I like his science fiction films, with the exception of Horrible...I mean Hollow Man. I never cared for Basic Instinct, even as a lonely 16 year old boy. Showgirls is an embarassment. I've seen more entertaining pornos.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Total Recall is a very good film with one of Jerry's best scores.Agreed. Also, Starship Troopers is a very good satire with one of Poledouris' best scores. And Basic Instict is a really good film with a very good Goldsmith score.And as for Hollow Man, I think it's quite good, once you get used to the fact that it switches from what tries to be a character study to a rather dumb monster thriller. And I keep saying it: The score is a masterpiece.Marian - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Lets hope not.I hope he finds the magic he found in Robocop and Starship Troopers again. And as for Horrible, I mean Hollow Man, I don't blame him nearly as much as I blame the script. There was no sympathy in Bacon's character, and since he was the core of the film, it collapsed all around him.Joe, who like Marian, and Roald, I recognize Starship Troopers as the satire it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Joe, who like Marian, and Roald, I recognize Starship Troopers as the satire it is.Feel free to add me to that list.And yes, Marian, Hollow Man's score is great.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 The guy should've stuck to sci-fi. I friggin loved this guy's Total Recall. Too bad he went to shit after that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 does every one goes to shit according to you?I liked Starship Troopers,it succeded in making us like the characters,then I had no clue who would be killed off in the next scenes.K.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Hollow Man is a good sci fi movie and a bad action movie. It switches genre half way through.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 20, 2004 Author Share Posted January 20, 2004 All his (American) movies are satires except for Hollow Man. Don't blame Verhoeven for that one. Hey, what can you do if you're just a hired gun? Some people think he's quite serious and therefore don't get it. However, the last time I watched Starship Troopers (my fourth time) was just one time too many.But anyway, is he going back to the Netherlands or what? He should at least do one more sci-fi before he goes.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 He should at least do one more sci-fi before he goes.Yeah. MST3K. There's some satire for Verhoeven. Oh wait...it'd be against him, not for him. Just as good.Dan--who wouldn't mind remaking Total Recall someday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 It's a pity perhaps that Verhoeven will never forfill his wish of making a film about Jezus Christ.That's a film even I would wanna see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 A Verhoeven film about Christ? Whoah. That's a film I don't think the Pope'll agree with.- Marc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 I'll have you know Paul Verhoeven is a great fan of Jezus Christ, he's actually a pretty religious man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Steef, aren't you close to crossing the line? I was watching a show about Michael Douglas and I was watching the Basic Instinct part, and they were talking to Verhoeven. This is where the man totally loses my respect as an artist and a person. Ok...so Douglas is going through marital problems, his wife is paranoid that there's like something going on between him and Sharon Stone, and here's Verhoeven provoking it by encouraging all these sex scenes. Not to mention he's more concerned about what turns up on film than whose lives he destroys just to get it. You all may not share the same views of morality with me, but I happen to know divorces are never happy. Especially when kids are involved. Verhoeven's cheap. He's a scumbag for ruining a marriage like that and filling his movies with gratuitous smut and violence. There's no reason Total Recall couldn't have been tastefully done like Blade Runner or Minority Report. Even tweaking what was made with some intellectual stuff and more work to make the movie more than dumb action would've been all it needed. Yet Verhoeven had a brain fart and didn't make it the way I wanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Steef' date=' aren't you close to crossing the line? [/quote']Close as always, but not over it by a long shot.I was watching a show about Michael Douglas and I was watching the Basic Instinct part, and they were talking to Verhoeven. This is where the man totally loses my respect as an artist and a person. Ok...so Douglas is going through marital problems, his wife is paranoid that there's like something going on between him and Sharon Stone, and here's Verhoeven provoking it by encouraging all these sex scenes. Not to mention he's more concerned about what turns up on film than whose lives he destroys just to get it. Yes, Verhoeven as a director is pretty obsessive, but that usually benefits his films.Hitchcock was not a very nice man either, but a brilliant director.You all may not share the same views of morality with me, but I happen to know divorces are never happy. Especially when kids are involved. I know that better then most, but that I do not let a director's or actor's personal life cloud my opinion about his work.Verhoeven's cheap. He's a scumbag for ruining a marriage like that and filling his movies with gratuitous smut and violence. Now hold on, Verhoeven's use of sex and violence is never without reason, and he always makes the violence look horrible, unlike most action films who make it look like something cool.Have you ever seen Flesh + Blood?It contains possible the most brilliantly filmed rape scene ever.It's brilliant because it looks and feels like a real sexual violation would, and the man even manages to put some humor into the mix also, it's so brilliant. There's no reason Total Recall couldn't have been tastefully done like Blade Runner or Minority Report. Even tweaking what was made with some intellectual stuff and more work to make the movie more than dumb action would've been all it needed. Yet Verhoeven had a brain fart and didn't make it the way I wanted.Verhoeven always has something to say with his films, but most people seem uniterested in the way he is telling it.I cannot believe how many people thought Showgirls was just a soft porn film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 Have you ever seen Flesh + Blood?It contains possible the most brilliantly filmed rape scene ever.It's brilliant because it looks and feels like a real sexual violation would, and the man even manages to put some humor into the mix also, it's so brilliant. I havn't seen it, but I can't imagine a more effective rape scene than the one in Irreversible. even though otherwise I despise the movie. I have always been a strong believer that there is no crime worse than rape, and this is the first movie I've seen that manages to capture what the true horror must be like. But I've only seen two Verhoven movies- Robocop and Total Recall, and both over 7 years ago. I only remember the hillarious scene in the board room from Robocop, and remember hating TR, but I don't take my opinions from that time seriously, so I expect I'll like it if I see it know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Awalt 0 Posted January 20, 2004 Share Posted January 20, 2004 But stuff like Basic Instinct and Showgirls is just an embarassment.Don't put these two titles in one and the same sentence, please! Basic Instinct is no embarrassment. That was a very good thriller with a very strong female lead. ----------------Alex CremersI personally couldn't stand Basic Instinct. It could be because I took a first date to the movie and spent the whole time in shock that I took this girl to a movie of this nature (crotch shots and all). She probably thought I was like Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver, taking Cybil Sheppard to a porno. Classy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 There's no reason Total Recall couldn't have been tastefully done like Blade Runner or Minority Report.Minority Report started life as Total Recall II. Verhoeven even talks about it on the Total Recall commentary track. Remember the mutants that could read minds? They were the pre-cogs.She probably thought I was like Travis Bickle in Taxi Driver, taking Cybil Sheppard to a porno. Classy.I've never been on a date with you, but I think that, too. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 He should at least do one more sci-fi before he goes.Yeah. MST3K. There's some satire for Verhoeven. Oh wait...it'd be against him, not for him. Just as good.Dan--who wouldn't mind remaking Total Recall somedayPlease don't consider re-making it.I though Starship Troopers was brilliant satire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QMM 4 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 That movie was nothing special to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 does every one goes to shit according to you?No! Certainly not! I have pointed out several directors like Spielberg and Ridley Scott who have managed to keep outputting quality work over the years despite some lacking and in Spielberg's case some downright abysmal works. However, this guy definately wen to shit. I am not even going to attempt to withdrasw any of that sentiment. I liked Starship Troopers,it succeded in making us like the characters,then I had no clue who would be killed off in the next scenes.Mark? YOU KIDDNG ME!First off succeeded in making us like the characters? Ummmm did we see the same movie? Who was there to like? Casper and Dein's wooden and utterly flat Johnny Rico? Denise Richard's pointless and damn near emotionless Carmen who was little more than a pretty face in the film? That chick (Dina Meyers I believe?) who played Dizzy whose character was so one diminsional I amazed her body actually had width to it and was not a walking cardboard cut out. Jesus! Even Dr. Nazi Howser M.D. wasn't very interesting. OH yeah and I love how they tried to cultivate that goofy "telekenesis" idea like it was supposed to be some kind of new "The Force". Look I will concede that movie had SOME redeeming qualities such as the fairly well done battle scenes, cool insect alien design, the proppaganda angle and lets not forget Co-Ed showers! However, the storyline, characters, dialogue stunk up a alien anthill of suckage.Not to mention the whole movie is based around one of the most laughable premises in the history.I mean here you hae these enormous alien bugs right? Now that in and of itself is pretty out there, but you can accept it in the realm of sci-fi. However, these alien bugs attack Earth by doing what? Firing their spores at asteroids which cause them to collide with Earth? Do you people understand how ridiculous that is? OK first off theoretically even if you could knock a asteroid out of its orbit the plent the bugs lived on Klendathu was ALL THE FRIGGIN way on the other side of the galaxy. Theoretically ANY asteroid sent from that planet would take MILLIONS AND MILLIONS of years to reach Earth. Thats not even mentioning the fact that they would somehow have to hit the asteroid in such a way that it would be launched so that it could accurately follow a trajectory to Earth. That would be pretyy much friggin impossible to just hit a asteroid and manage to hit it so that it could find its way across the vastness of space to hit a specific solitary target.That has to be one of the most laughable plot points in a movie .... EVER! Seriously! Its right it up there with the "turning back the world" goofy shit from Superman and the "Bring em back for just 1 day" deal from A.I.. Look overall I don't really blame Verhoeven for ST. IMO it was more the fault of the script writer and bad casting. However, he clearly has gona well beyond his prime. Off a cliff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Hahaha! It's a popcorn movies in its purest form, Rogue.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,200 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I disagree. It's a satire disguising as a popcorn movie. That they made an action TV series out of it is the ultimate irony which makes the satire even more frightening.Marian - who's never seen Flesh and Blood in full. Drowning by Numbers (Michael Nyman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 Yeah, it's time to see some good'ol Flesh and Blood.I still think Verhoeven said: They want popcorn? I'll GIVE them popcorn!----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 Is it a generalisation to say that most Americans did not see the satire in Starship Troopers while most europeans did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 21, 2004 Author Share Posted January 21, 2004 You might be on to something.That computer animated series was awful. Each episode was basically the same. They didn't understand the spirit of the movie.----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 I disagree. It's a satire disguising as a popcorn movie. That they made an action TV series out of it is the ultimate irony which makes the satire even more frightening.Just like all of the sequels to Robocop.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 All his (American) movies are satires except for Hollow Man.Really? I wonder how Total Recall is a satire...And starship troopers, I love it, it's a really great satire of ww2 and america.Douglas is going through marital problems, his wife is paranoid that there's like something going on between him and Sharon Stone, and here's Verhoeven provoking it by encouraging all these sex scenes. Not to mention he's more concerned about what turns up on film than whose lives he destroys just to get it. You all may not share the same views of morality with me, but I happen to know divorces are never happy. Especially when kids are involved. Fair enough.Verhoeven's cheap. He's a scumbag for ruining a marriage like that and filling his movies with gratuitous smut and violence. There's no reason Total Recall couldn't have been tastefully done like Blade Runner or Minority Report. Even tweaking what was made with some intellectual stuff and more work to make the movie more than dumb action would've been all it needed. Yet Verhoeven had a brain fart and didn't make it the way I wanted. Smut is harmless, and good. Violence? Hey, dumbing violence down is no better, I think it's good to display violence in it's full some where in the movie bussiness. Anyway, you are sounding a bit taliban here, like someone who would support censorship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Not censorship, but just encouragement not to be so careless, irresponsible, and tasteless in using realistic sex and violence so gratuitously. I don't think Total Recall would've been any worse had the violence been dropped down a notch or two. And I don't think it really needed the three-boob chick, either. What did she add to the story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 And I don't think it really needed the three-boob chick, either. What did she add to the story?Yes, and what did the monkey who did a Hitler salute add to the story of Raiders?Those kinda things ad color and flavor to a film.Total Recall was certainly violent, and if you are against something like that then this is abviously not the film for you.But the film is definatly MORE then just violence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Yes, and what did the monkey who did a Hitler salute add to the story of Raiders?It kept Indy from being killed by the bad dates, dude. But the film is definatly MORE then just violence.Yeah. It's got some crappy art design, too. It's heading in the right direction, but it was still pretty weak and cheap-looking. We're talking like TOS here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 And I don't think it really needed the three-boob chick, either. What did she add to the story?She was the catalyst that started the shoot out in the bar, that led to Cohagen shutting off the air.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted January 22, 2004 Author Share Posted January 22, 2004 And I don't think it really needed the three-boob chick, either. What did she add to the story?She was the catalyst that started the shoot out in the bar, that led to Cohagen shutting off the air.NeilIndysolo, you never forget a thing, do you?Or did you just watch it last night?----------------Alex Cremers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 And I don't think it really needed the three-boob chick, either. What did she add to the story?She was the catalyst that started the shoot out in the bar, that led to Cohagen shutting off the air.NeilIndysolo, you never forget a thing, do you?I think I forgot how to spell "Cohaagen" correctly.Or did you just watch it last night?No, not last night. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rogue_Leader 2 Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Is it a generalisation to say that most Americans did not see the satire in Starship Troopers while most europeans did?I saw the satire. Some of it was good and provided for some humorous moments. However, it wasn't enough to save the movie unfortunately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 And I don't think it really needed the three-boob chick, either. What did she add to the story?She was the catalyst that started the shoot out in the bar, that led to Cohagen shutting off the air.NeilBut did the three boobs set Richter off or was it her mouth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morn 8 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 What's wrong with 3 boobs, it's a funny vision of the future of strippers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 And I don't think it really needed the three-boob chick, either. What did she add to the story?She was the catalyst that started the shoot out in the bar, that led to Cohagen shutting off the air.NeilBut did the three boobs set Richter off or was it her mouth?It was a combination of both.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 You can't show the full array of mutant variants without the three-boobied woman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Aww come on folks. Take your brains out of your underwear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker 5 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 Aww come on folks. Take your brains out of your underwear...Now that you mention it....I wonder how many vaginas she had.Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ren 75 Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 OMG neil! What a thought. How many dicks did they have to use now that you think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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