Episode 3 horns

[GoodMusician 56]

Is it just me, or is the horn section having intonation problems? Especially in Obiwan vs. Anakin. There are parts where the horns do that short, repeated horn cord. There are times where I just cringe. Something isn't right and I'm thinking one of the horns was flat.

And there are othe rmoments where I feel it to. Anyone one else notice this?

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

Are you talking about the first quote of "Battle of the Heroes" in 'Anakin vs. Obi Wan'?

[GoodMusician 56]

it's hard to say. It may just be my head playing tricks on me. Sometimes I hear it and cringe... and others I don't.

I never heard it until a friend of mine asked me if I'd noticed that the horns where, as he put it "perpetually under the pitch." He's a horn played and I'm not. I'm a string player so I naturally listen for the strings.

Ever since he said that I've listened more closely to the horns and it may simply be my mind playing tricks on me--hence me wondering if anyone else had heard it.

I'm listening to Battle of the Heroes and Anakin vs. Obi-Wan again to see if maybe I was just hearing things.

The very begining of Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan you have the horns playing those sticatto chors over and over. The middle horn does something. I wanna say losses the pitch a little.

Then again at 30 seconds something doesn't sound right. and a few times after that too. i dunno, I'll have to ask my friend to listen to it again and point out what and when he hears stuff.

Just curious if anyone else felt something wasn't right or if it's my ears playing tricks on me.

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

I think what you're hearing is counterpoint, my friend. The middle horns are playing an entirely different melody. I think one of the things that makes the score stand out from TPM and AOTC. It's something that belongs in the OT, with "Final Duel" from ROTJ.

[GoodMusician 56]

no no... you're not listening to the same point I am... You're thinkiiing the theme. Before the theme is even stated in Anakin Vs. Obi-Wan the horns are playing that "Da-da-da-da-da-da--dadada-da-da ::cymbol crash:: da-da-da-da-da-da-dadada-da-da"...that is what I'm talking about...

I know the difference between harmonies and something not right.

[TheRuleOfThirds 0]

Okay. Here's what I assume you're talking about:

Anakin vs. Obi Wan

--0:10, repeated at 0:18 and 0:39

Battle of the Heroes

--0:37, the horns sound out of tune with the choir

[RomanticStrings 10]

Well, I hear no intonations problems (in fact, I hear no harmonies in those da things, just mostly trumpets and other brass on the same note in octaves). However, and I do not blame them in the least if this is so as I myself play trumpet, it seems as though they are all very tired at that point. Their speed is fine, but they seem to just be forcing themselves to play well even though their lips seem about ready to fall off.

~Conor

[Greg1138 3]

Hmmmm.....have listened to this carefully and I can't really hear any problem with intonation between the section....but there is a disparity in the tuning with other sections certainly but it sounds like this was a reording issue rather than a perfomance issue and has been covered well by the higher harmonics of the Choir (I'm referring her to the BOTH section) and a clever Sound Engineer....I think! Can't really hear a problem at all in Anaking Vs Obi-Wan....

[King Mark 3,631]

I don't like the muted horns opening Battle of the Heroes.I would have liked a full brass statement ,more specifically sounding like the short quote of Hedwig's Theme near the beginning of Mischief Managed in PoA,anyways,that kind of "crisp" brass.

K.M.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

This is sort of off-topic, but has anyone else noticed how appalling the timpani is mixed in the latter cues of the soundtrack? In Anakin vs Obi-Wan in particular they sound like they're being played in another room. I don't know what the story is, but it's quite distracting. Anyone else notice?

[GoodMusician 56]

Yea, you still weren'tm listening to the right part.

The VERY beginging of Anakin vs. Obi-Wan. it's like...serisouly..2-3 seconds into it...not 10.

Like I said, I know the difference between counterpoint, harmonies and such from simply wrong notes. I play the viola! That's all we get lol.

But if you listen carefully, the horns at the the bgining, there's maybe at least 2 horns. the note and the harmony on. maybe an octave. I can't tell.

I'm not talking about the theme here or it's harmony. and it seems like everytime that is re-stated it sounds a little funny or flat or something.

[Greg1138 3]

Ok - posible culture difference here - by "Horn" do you mean "Trumpet"? If so, then yes I see what you mean.....I don't think there is a problem, but the open 5th at that pitch - especially in a minor key - is going to play tricks on the ears because of the harmonics.....

[Erik Woods 570]

The source of your problems with the Sith score can be explained in two words...

SHAWN MURPHY

-Erik-

[Jeshopk 8]

I think the confusion is coming from calling trumpets "horns". In jazz, they call all brass horns, but most people around here think you mean french horns. Anyway, I know the blasts that you speak of... the ba-ba-ba-ba-bababa-ba-ba!(x2)

There is a minor 3rd harmony going on there(edit: I don't have the recording here, so maybe the above poster is right about the open 5th). I don't imagine how it could sound more in tune. Perhaps your ears are playing tricks on you. Perhaps your friend heard the minor 3rd harmony and was referring to that, and you agreed with him too quickly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,267]

The source of your problems with the Sith score can be explained in two words...

SHAWN MURPHY

-Erik-

And ROTS is not even his worst job, not by a long shot.

[Damo 0]

I dont really noticed any problem with the horn section in 'Anakin vs. Obi Wan' or "Battle of the Heroes"

[GoodMusician 56]

sorry. Like I said, I'm a string player. It wasn't even until last year, my freshman in college that I ever played with a full orchestra because of how my HS worked.

I call it horn because I knew it was a brass instrument, not because it was the "French Horn," which I'm now told is incorrect terminology and not to call it that.

I guess if you say it's a trumpet it is. It is a firth actually (thought it was a third.) It's the lower note, or "D," to the higher note "A."

maybe your right. But I don't understand...why is it that guys fault?

[mahler3 478]

The source of your problems with the Sith score can be explained in two words...

SHAWN MURPHY

-Erik-

And ROTS is not even his worst job, not by a long shot.

Titanic perhaps?

There is nothing wrong with the LSO's brass section - trust me!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,267]

It's a toss up between A.I. and Minority Report.

[gkgyver 1,646]

This is sort of off-topic, but has anyone else noticed how appalling the timpani is mixed in the latter cues of the soundtrack? In Anakin vs Obi-Wan in particular they sound like they're being played in another room. I don't know what the story is, but it's quite distracting. Anyone else notice?

YES! When I first listened to the whiny timpani, I thought "Why the hell did JW include that?" It sounds pretty disgusting, especially in Anakin Vs Obi- Wan and Anakin's Dark Deeds. No reverb, no power.

[Greg1138 3]

This is sort of off-topic, but has anyone else noticed how appalling the timpani is mixed in the latter cues of the soundtrack? In Anakin vs Obi-Wan in particular they sound like they're being played in another room. I don't know what the story is, but it's quite distracting. Anyone else notice?

YES! When I first listened to the whiny timpani, I thought "Why the hell did JW include that?" It sounds pretty disgusting, especially in Anakin Vs Obi- Wan and Anakin's Dark Deeds. No reverb, no power.

Inded - I would go as far as to say that that they were recorded at a completely different time to rest of the score, and that they were recorded by different engineers in a different studio???