The Turning Point for JW

[artyjeffrey 20]

During JW's "classic era" (1975-84), his scores were very motif-driven, melodic, well, "classics." From about the end of that era onwards it seems that his scores changed, getting looser and kind of impressionistic (pardon my lack of diction). So my question: What score do you believe signified this change in his approach? For that matter, was it Williams that changed, or was it the films he began to score that changed?

For me, I noticed the big change with Empire of The Sun.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'd say Schindler's List. Spielberg's style shifted then as well. Just look at the difference between Jurassic Park and The Lost World: Jurassic Park besides the fact that the first one is a superior movie.

[dooku77 0]

The turning point for me plain and simple was Last Crusade, Belly of the steel beast and "no ticket" cues clearly set up and are being used in almost every score he's written since Phantom Menace, to me this line is very clear, I'll agree that there was a buildup to this point, but for me this is where he really changed his style, this is a tough topic because there are little original moments in all of his scores. It's hard for me because it looks like it might be until summer 2007 until we get another one of his brilliant action scores, hopefully someone will hire him for summer 2006, hopefully he won't be taking another year off, even though he does deserve it.

[A24 4,359]

For me it all changed the moment he came back from his so-called "semi-retirement" (After Schindler's List, John was set to concentrate more on his "serious" music and only make exceptions for Spielberg/Lucas productions).

[Damo 0]

The turning point for JW is similar to what dooku77 said, which i think is the indiana Jones saga trilogy and onwards. I also think that as the modern films progresses in the future, the more significant changes in JW style as he gets older.

[scissorhands 16]

I see no major differences between his works of early and late 90's, so in my opinion, 1987 was the main turning point. 2000 would be the other important change in his style.

[Marian Schedenig 8,238]

You can see gradual changes in style throughout his 80s/90s scores.

Marian - who doesn't think there is a specific turning point.

Dangerous Beauty (George Fenton)

[King Mark 3,631]

Yes,I agree with Sissorhands about 1987.

After Spacecamp,Witches of Eastwick and Amazing Stories,these are the "peak" of Williams early 80's style of writing.

After that there was stuff like Presumed Innocent,BotfJ and JFK,which I considered very different and I remember that well....

K.M.

[Trumpeteer 302]

I don't think there was a turning point in his style, just the types of movies that came his way. If Spielberg continued to make movies like Indy or ET or Jaws, JW would still have composed in those classic motif styles, I think.

I would say his use of motif has diminished to make way for more melodic scores.

[ymenard 54]

If you look at that late 80's period, you'll see that Last Crusade was his first big action movie in... years. That's why it sounds so different than his previous stuff, why imho it's the clean mark between his periods. Ok I'm sure some of you will say Empire of the Sun was a big movie, but it wasn't the typical big action large score stuff he was used to do for a decade. Here's a list :

1989 - Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade

1987 - Empire of the Sun

1984 - Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom

1983 - Return of the Jedi

1982 - E.T. The Extra-Terrestrial

So basically it was his "return to form" of almost FIVE YEARS.

Listening again to Last Crusade, I still find the same style of action found in every movie since. And also, the same type of underscore he uses nowadays (ex : Listen to the underscoring of the Phantom Menace and see how similar it is to TLC)

[jamesie 1]

And then Hook... And Home Alone... And Jurassic Park... All thematically driven scores. After that, until Harry Potter, he did change his style... mainly because the movies were a different style than his earlier works... But when Harry Potter came around, the themes popped up again. So I don't know if his style has changed as much as the movies that he has had to work with.

[Romão 2,274]

I think he has become masteful in "serious", dramatic scores starting with Empire of the Sun. After this, you had Accidental Tourist, Schindler's List, Seven Years in Tibet, Amistad, Angela's Ashes, A.I, all fantastic dramatic scores that are some of best scores ever and they certanly sound more refreshing to me than his fantasy scores, which are nevertheless still wonderful. That is why I'm anticipating the score for Geisha more that any of his score in past 5 years. It's just a genre where I think he excels and sounds as refreshing as he can sound.

[Sandor 798]

I think Williams had several "turning points". For me the first one since 1975 (from Jaws to E.T. was, for me, the best period of any film composer's career) was 1983's Return Of The Jedi. For films like Jaws, Star Wars, Close Encounters Of The Third Kind, Superman, The Empire Strikes Back, Raiders Of The Lost Ark and E.T. Williams wrote instantly classic themes which are still highly recognizable to most people on this planet. There was no end to the winning streak of his seemingly endless abilities to master classic melodies. It seemed that Williams had unlocked the secret to the formula of a successful instrumental cue.

Return Of The Jedi shattered that misconception. Don't get me wrong; I love Luke And Leia, I love the Darkside Beckons music, hell - even the Ewok Celebration music. But they are not classics in the same manner as the Star Wars Main Title, The Imperial March, The Raiders' March or Flying. They're not even close! Therefor; a turning point.

Williams wrote good scores afterwards (and sometimes GREAT - Born On The Fourth Of July, Hook, Far And Away), but it wasn't until 1993's Jurassic Park and Schindler's List that Williams found his gift for truly outstanding classic melodic writing. Williams made film music popular again in that year. Those two scores alone were responsible for countless compilation albums and opened the door for folks like James Horner to be recognized by the general public.

But his return to greatness sadly lasted merely a year. Williams has written several outstanding scores since 1993 (Seven Years In Tibet, Saving Private Ryan, A.I.), but not a single score - perhaps with the exception of Harry Potter and The Sorcerer's Stone - can be added to list of Williams' truly classic works. I'm still waiting for that score. Perhaps Memoirs Of A Geisha. I have good hope.

[Romão 2,274]

There is more to a score than memorable themes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's a matter of debate!

(enter Alexcremers)

[Morn 8]

Empire of the Sun, that was his first full move towards his post-classic era sound. Little else needs to be listed, this is the turning point score.

[Sandor 798]

I think it's a little too easy to classify Empire Of The Sun as the turning point score. It was arguably the first "serious" film that Williams got to score that got major attention (therefor The River or something doesn't count). After Empire Williams' was credited for not just being able to write excellent music for sci-fi/fantasy films, but also for serious dramatic works (stuff like Born on the fourth of July or Stanley and Iris started to define his career just as much as Star Wars and E.T. after Empire Of The Sun). I'm sure this happened because Williams WANTED to write more serious music, more dramatic, more profound.

But for me, like I posted before, Return Of The Jedi is the turning point score.

[Morn 8]

Yes, but Empire of the Sun is more than his first "serious" score, it's his first score that he would write in the style that he used throughout most of the 90's, it was the first score of his new sound.

[King Mark 3,631]

For me his "new sound" came with Born on the Fourth of July and JFK,I remember finding these scores very different from the rest of the music I'd put on my Williams compilations

K.M.

[A24 4,359]

There is more to a score than memorable themes.

You got that right, Merkel. Artists like to express their art through various forms of communication. Whistle-along tunes may not be even a part of that. Some composers consider the "hum-along tunes" the least interesting. Yes, some languages are more complex. All it takes to understand a experimenting composer is a bit of open-mindedness and the ability to think further than Andrew Lloyd Webber and Yanni.

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Alex Cremers

[Romão 2,274]

Themes contribute a great deal for a pleasant listening experience, but there some magnificent scores which are not very thematic in their core.