As long as we are competing: Star Wars vs. Close Encounters

[Ross 1]

Two VERY different scores. Same genre. Same year. Same composer.

Some say Close Encounters is Williams' masterpiece. That it's a pity that it lost the Oscar. That it's the maestro's favorite.

But on the other hand, it's Star Wars. It's Luke's theme. The Force theme. It's a new era for movies. A new generation born.

What is your opinion?

-ROSS, who will vote for Star Wars.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Glad to see no one voted for CE3K. Its a good film but WAY too mushy. Full of all that over the top Spielberg sentimentality.

Still like I said great film, but SW is just WAY better.

[Ricard 2,247]

Glad to see no one voted for CE3K. Its a good film but WAY too mushy. Full of all that over the top Spielberg sentimentality.    

Still like I said great film, but SW is just WAY better.

I strongly disagree. CE3K does not even have 1% of the 'over the top Spielberg sentimentality' that E.T. has. I wonder when and how you saw that film.

BTW, we were NOT judging the films, but the scores. I voted for CE3K of course.

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

I like CE3K and love Star Wars: A New Hope. Pity that we must place them against each other.

CE3K may be a more mature score, but SW:ANH is one of the reasons why I am today a obsessive-compulsive John Williams music collector. It's fun and excitement all the way through. IMO, all the Star Wars scores are.

The Abduction Of Barry and the scene when the ships come over the mountain... awesome stuff!

I wonder what a CE3K sequel would be like? "When Dreyfuss returns!!!! Reprogrammed to dominate his fellow earthlings take over the world!!!" BWahahahaa!

-Chris, Who saw Always was airing on AMC and watched a little bit of it for the 1st time in probably 5-6 years. Probably Spielberg's worst film, but even though it may be, I still liked it. Holly Hunter is such a lil' cutie in it... and that old Dreyfuss looked SO wrong for her.

[Morn 8]

The Abduction Of Barry and the scene when the ships come over the mountain... awesome stuff!

I advise you get some Ligeti if you like that

[Rogue_Leader 2]

OH whoops! The scores eh?

Yeah OK I agree with ya Ricard E.T. was notorious with Spilebiggs "Emotion Overload!".

Like I said CE3K is a great film, but to me SW is just better. Anyway as for scores I would vote exactly the same way.

John Williams achieved musical perfection with the SW trilogy.

[Romão 2,276]

Close Encounters perhaps sould be compared to A.I rather than Star Wars. A New Hope.

[Ricard 2,247]

Close Encounters perhaps sould be compared to A.I rather than Star Wars. A New Hope.

No, thanks

[Trumpeteer 302]

I am in love with every second of Star Wars, and maybe only 3/4 of Close Encounters.

So I voted for Star Wars.

[Morlock 11]

I'm trying to like CE3K, but I'm simply too addicted to themes to go over to it. I have to go with ANH.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

There are themes in CE3K. They are just not as prevalent.

[Morlock 11]

There are themes in CE3K. They are just not as prevalent.  

My point exactly. The one theme I really love is the one played when you see the trucks being covered and disguised, but sadly it's not presented in it's true form on the CD :cry:

[Miguel Andrade 1,285]

CE3K... I just don't like it more thant SW:ANH. It's just olne of my all time Williams favorites! And I also like Ligeti

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Close Encounters perhaps sould be compared to A.I rather than Star Wars. A New Hope.

Thanks you for the opportunity. There is no comparison to A.I., both film or score. Close Encounters is a masterpiece, A.I. is well you know how I feel about this film. A.I. score is wonderful, but it could never be mistaken for the wonderful score that Close Encounters is.

There are no aliens in A.I., its not about space and while both films revolve around the destruction of the family unit, any comparisons to Star Wars are just as legitimate, but... it is still an unfair comparison. Its like comparing Star Wars to 2001, or Close Encounters to Spaceballs. ONLY superficially are they even similar.

I expected Star Wars to win hands down and it is. Star Wars is a nearly perfect score, so is Close Encounters. Star Wars is a fun score, Close Encounters is not.

SOAPBOX TIME!!!

This thread reaffirms my belief that the majority on this board lacks any real appreciation for Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Refering to Merkel's quote, it is apparent to me that many here's obsession with A.I., has granted them license to grant it a status of masterpiece. The qualities of the two films in a side by side comparison, seem obvious to me, that Close Encounters is the far better picture. Surprisingly I have seen A.I. more recently(3 times infact) than CE3K. However CE3K stands out, frozen in time for me. I can still see it in my minds eye as if it were fall of 1977. There are no comparison musically. John Williams contributions to Close Encounters are beyond mere words. It is the chicken and the egg effect. There is no music without the film, and there is no film without the music, both are so intimately woven. It is a musical achievement far beyond anything in A.I. This is no slight on A.I. either. It is a beautiful score, but it is not the heart and soul of that film(IMHO it has none), it is just beautiful background music for an incoherent mismash of ideas, and misconceptions. Williams score is the heart and soul of Close Encounters. It is the voice of the aliens, it is the terror of abduction, it is the joy of reunitment, it is the beauty of discovery, and it is the embrace of sanity for one man. It is a mothers love, something you will not find in A.I.

I urge members of this board to rediscover Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Turn off the cell phones, leave the computer alone, put down your computer games, just turn the movie on, and watch. Set aside all external stimuli and experience this film as it was meant to be.

I believe I can speak for Ricard in this instance when I say that few film experiences have been so powerful, so though provoking, so uplifting, so transcendetal(for a lack of a better word).

[Morn 8]

Ohh, go away Joe

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Ohh, go away Joe

If that is your wish Morn.

Joe, who will now leave.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,273]

Now look what you have done, Morn.

Stefancos- who hopes Walter will return.

[Trumpeteer 302]

This thread reaffirms my belief that the majority on this board lacks any real appreciation for Close Encounters of the Third Kind.  Refering to Merkel's quote, it is apparent to me that many here's obsession with A.I., has granted them license to grant it a status of masterpiece.  The qualities of the two films in a side by side comparison, seem obvious to me, that Close Encounters is the far better picture.

.....

I believe I can speak for Ricard in this instance when I say that few film experiences have been so powerful, so though provoking, so uplifting, so transcendetal(for a lack of a better word).

Don't go away, Joe! I want to converse.....

I hope my "put-down" of Close Encounters by saying I only like 3/4 of the score didn't lead you to believe that I don't find the movie to be one of the best Spielberg/Williams collaborations, third behind Jaws and Schindler's List. The movie doesn't get going for me until the scene with the mashed potatoes, just before the family leaves. And that's a good thing, because I never liked the casting of Terri Garr, nor the Neary kids. They never got into the feel of the film as the doubting Thomases.

As far as AI, it is more beautifully shot, but not necessarily better in its approach to the ideas it tries to present.

As far as scores are concerned, Close Encounters is awesome. AI is great.

As far as the entire film, Close Encounters is a near-masterpiece. AI is great.

Jeff -- who is still astounded by the story behind the creation of the five tones (check the newest CD release for that one)

[The Five Tones 302]

There is no doubt which film has the greater importance in our culture, and thus how it is likely to rate with even the most specialized group of fans. Looking back, I know that SW was the film that made me a JW fan whereas CE3K kept me there when I sought to grow as a fan. But I wonder what if there never was A New Hope? If SW was a one-off, I mean this is totally theoretical and now almost unthinkable, but how would it really truly rate on its own? And what if Spielberg had not been under the gun to finish CE3K by Xmas '77 instead of summer '78? The Director's Edition probably only partly rectifies what was essentially a rushed production.

In any case, my top three are CE3K, then TESB then ANH.

[Figo 2]

Doesn't get going until the mashed potatoes scene?!! What, are you -- nuts?!!! Close Encounters has one of the most compelling openings in all of Spielberg's oeuvre. The desert storm, people shouting in foreign tongues, the chaos of multiple conversations taking place over one another, the mysterious circumstance of the fighter planes turning up in Mexico, and the sun coming out to "sing" in the middle of the night. Hell, the opening of Jurassic Park is just watered down CE3K!

Joe's right. You will never appreciate the magnitude of Williams' genius if you do not come to terms with Close Encounters. It is a rare marriage of music and image, where music is as much a part of the story as anything seen onscreen. And, as Joe implied, the effect is one of complete sincerity -- unlike A.I.., with its sentimental drivel served up after two and half hours under the orange hot dog lights.

As a film, I would even go so far as to say CE3K outstrips Star Wars. It's a different experience, and both of them are awe-inspiring in their own way. But I feel very, very sorry, indeed, for those who were forced to make this great film's acquaintance on a television screen. You had to be there in that theatre to understand the full impact of that opening scene, of the mailbox sequence at the railroad crossing, of Barry's abduction, and -- most of all -- of the mothership finale, which awed the living shit out of audiences in 1977. You could feel that sucker as it crested Devil's Tower and rolled over in mid-air to Williams' orgasmic score. Hair-raising is the only way I can describe it.

Star Wars was a romp, but CE3K was transcendent. You left the theatre looking at the world differently, wondering about your place in the universe. SW had a mythic appeal, but CE3K was the more human story, one which could happen to anyone, and in the very present. It's about obsession and loss, and realization and fulfillment. About following one's dreams, even if it means letting go of everything you've ever known and thought you held dear. It's beautifully done. One of the great films of the '70s, and one of the greatest science fiction films ever made.

On the other hand, the score to SW literally changed my life, so I'm afraid I am going to have to sit this one out. I simply cannot vote in good conscience. Instead, I shall have to remain one of those good men who does nothing and allows evil to triumph.

Figo, amused to see CE3K mentioned in this month's BBC Music Magazine, because of its use of Kodaly's hand-signals.

[Romão 2,276]

I watched Close Encounters on the TV. I don't even own the score (it's impossible to find here), although I have a reasonable knowledge of it.

I love Close Encounters, both film and score, I think they're both masterpieces. But without Star Wars, I bet this board wouldn't have half of its members.

But when you talk about two scores that are perfect for the film, it's kinda hard to put one of them above the other.

[Ricard 2,247]

Thank you, Joe. Wonderful post, Figo. You know I'm 100% with you guys on this.

[Omen II 1,238]

Close Encounters of the Third Kind is the better score by a country mile. No contest, as far as I'm concerned. My favourite bit is that little oboe solo when the dog goes sliding down the ramp from the spaceship.

Incidentally, has anyone heard the Danish composer Per Norgard's 6th symphony 'for a new millennium'? I heard it on the wireless the other day and the similarities in one of the movements to The Abduction of Barry were almost too great to dismiss as mere coincidence.

Damien - off through the cat flap to meet his spindly-limbed friends any minute now...

[Figo 2]

Thank you, Joe. Wonderful post, Figo. You know I'm 100% with you guys on this.

My parents still speak with awe of the first time they saw Close Encounters, especially the effect of the mothership, which literally shook the entire theatre. Summer movies back then held transgenerational appeal. The best of them spoke to adults every bit as clearly as to children. To this day, Superman (though technically a Christmas release) remains on my stepfather's list of all-time favorites.

By contrast, both he and my mother hated A.I., as all good folk must.

[Figo 2]

Oh yeah, and my stepfather can't stand fantasy movies!

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

You know, guys, I like CE3K and agree that it is a masterpiece of a story, film, and score. It is an awesome experience to behold. But that doesn't make it among my favorite films of all time. I respect it, and give it it's due as a great film, but it personally doesn't effect me the way that it does others. Does that mean I hate the film? No. I loved it.

In the same regard, I give respect to CE3K even though it doesn't move me (and parts of it even bore me). There are scenes that are truly magnificent (the abduction scene and probably every scene with an alien spacecraft or hinting at one in it is brilliant visual filmmaking).

My point is that I wish that the A.I., TPM, and AOTC bashers would simply do the same, because many of us DO love and appreciate those films whether they have faults or not. Some of us see more faults than others, but I enjoyed them a great deal, and many others here do too.

So, I'm with all of you that CE3K is a brilliant film even though it didn't personally move me, but I am not with you that AI, TPM, and AOTC are utterly horrible films, because I like all 4 in question very much.

And there is a difference with subjective opinions on art. Although I believe in moral absolutes, I see NO absolutes in grading art. It's in the eye of the beholder. Every person has different tastes. Why we bash each others opinions is utterly asinine. State yours and respect others.

(And Steef, I know what you are going to say because you always say it, but that statement is NOT hypocritical because the off-topic things that I debate about outside of this board can usually be proven or disproven with enough research, intelligence, and willingness to get the information straight in the idea of seeking the truth. Personal opinions on art cannot be so black and white, because it is ENTIRELY based on personal tastes, and cannot be graded by anybody other than the individual in question).

[Figo 2]

Hey, just because my entire family happens to think A.I. sucked, I don't see why that should ruin your day. Are we not entitled to our opinions, just as you are entitled to yours?

You don't want Beowulf calling you a pompous ass, do you?

[Morn 8]

And there is a difference with subjective opinions on art. Although I believe in moral absolutes, I see NO absolutes in grading art. It's in the eye of the beholder. Every person has different tastes. Why we bash each others opinions is utterly asinine. State yours and respect others.

I'm sure an experienced director for example would be judging the films he saw in an objective way. Camera angles, lighting, acting etc

[Ricard 2,247]

As far as AI, it is more beautifully shot

One again, I disagree.

[Ricard 2,247]

]Star Wars is a fun score, Close Encounters is not.

That's the only part of your post I disagree with. To me the CE3K score is much more fun than Star Wars.

[Ricard 2,247]

I'm sure an experienced director for example would be judging the films he saw in an objective way. Camera angles, lighting, acting etc

That's not only utterly illogical, but also means that you've never read or heard the opinion of any 'experienced director'

[Morn 8]

I've talked to people who make films. Only small films though. One of them tends to judge films according to all the technical aspects

[Chris ChrusherComix 46]

Hey, just because my entire family happens to think A.I. sucked, I don't see why that should ruin your day.  Are we not entitled to our opinions, just as you are entitled to yours?  

You don't want Beowulf calling you a pompous ass, do you?

I just mean to show a little respect because some of us like them.

Don't be like me and my feelings towards STEPMOM. My feelings towards that film betrayed me, and yet I enjoyed my proposed alternate plot points for a STEPMOM: SPECIAL EDITION: DEATH FINDS THEM ALL!

[Rogue_Leader 2]

I'm sure an experienced director

Clearly this post was reffering to Spielberg and NOT Lucas for obvious reasons!

[quaver 0]

This is a hard choice but I have to say Star Wars. It's happier and less eerie than Close Encounters!

[Rogue_Leader 2]

JW became the Jedi Master of leitmotif with Star Wars.

[Mari 279]

I love both scores and still haven't been able to decide between them!!

Mari

Rite of Spring (Stravinsky)

[Figo 2]

Rite of Spring (Stravinsky)

Nice relaxing music for the end of your day!

[Mari 279]

Rite of Spring (Stravinsky)

Nice relaxing music for the end of your day!

I spent the day at work being mellow and listening to "Appalachian Spring" and am kicking it up a notch or two now that I'm home.

Mari

[Figo 2]

Well, just don't trash that bedroom of yours. We all know the precarious condition it's been in since Chrusher got done with it.

[Mari 279]

The repair work was finally completed last weekend!

Mari

Toccata and Fugue in D Minor (Bach)

[Figo 2]

Tut tut. This isn't what I remember reading yesterday. Someone's been making free with the "edit" button.

Figo, who was merciful, but is starting to rethink his stance.

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Hmmmm but were your scores OK Mari??

You claim they got drenched right?

[Mari 279]

Hmmmm but were your scores OK Mari??  

You claim they got drenched right?

The scores were definitely drenched . . .including the Star Wars Trilogy boxed set! I've discovered cardboard doesn't hold up real well under water and the booklet is shot too. I've listened to a few of the CDs and they are starting to skip, so I will have to replace them. The good news is that I do have full replacement coverage and am now totaling up amounts.

Thanks for asking Rogue Leader!

Mari

[Rogue_Leader 2]

Well that is VERY good to hear. I am glad your not SOL. Sore out of luck in case ya didn't know.

[King Mark 3,634]

Hey,I loved A.I.,both movie and score.My only miff is that the score was mixed in so low in the movie.

K.M.

[Justin 2]

I don't have any release to CEOT3K and I don't have the SE release to ANH. :oops:

Those are next on my purchasing list.

Justin

[JoeinAR 1,949]

8O :wow: :evil: censored