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Henry Buck

Indiana Jones Unreleased Music Resource

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I just sent out editing packages to those who requested it. If I missed you or you just never had them and want them, drop me a PM.

The Last Crusade one is improved over the old one as well, as it now features the proper cue titles and the palace source music. If you want it, PM me

If somebody could PM me all the alternate Indy4 material being discussed recently that would be great too. All I have is crumb's 2CD expanded score

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A couple of things I recently noticed:

. The so-called "Circus Organ Sweetener" in "Escape from the Train" (aka "Indy's Very First Adventure") is actually there on the new CD! If you listen well, it's mixed very faintly with the orchestral part.

. The 8M3 Fix Alternate in Raiders (aka "Through the Wall" alternate) could have been written to segue directly into "Indy Rides the Statue" (aka 8M3 Fix). The cue should start right after Marion accidentally tries to flame out Indy's whip and he screams "Gee, this one's no!"

What do you think?

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A couple of things I recently noticed:

. The so-called "Circus Organ Sweetener" in "Escape from the Train" (aka "Indy's Very First Adventure") is actually there on the new CD! If you listen well, it's mixed very faintly with the orchestral part.

Maybe its just the notes played, to help mixing and sync the sweetener.

I think Williams did the same with the Taiko drums on 'boys into battle' In the OSt cue you can 'feel' the drums in the background.

And with these sweetenres and insters on the indy movies i have now no doubt that boys into battle was meant to have the drums all over along. They just recorded them sepparately. (I mean it's very very possible that it is not the work of sound designers but Williams himslef.)

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And with these sweetenres and insters on the indy movies i have now no doubt that boys into battle was meant to have the drums all over along. They just recorded them sepparately. (I mean it's very very possible that it is not the work of sound designers but Williams himslef.)

Yes, I remember in those Scoring Sessions reports on SW.com that it was clearly said that the big taiko drums were in fact recorded separately because they would have drown out all the dynamics if recorded alongside the orchestra.

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And with these sweetenres and insters on the indy movies i have now no doubt that boys into battle was meant to have the drums all over along. They just recorded them sepparately. (I mean it's very very possible that it is not the work of sound designers but Williams himslef.)

Yes, I remember in those Scoring Sessions reports on SW.com that it was clearly said that the big taiko drums were in fact recorded separately because they would have drown out all the dynamics if recorded alongside the orchestra.

yes but people thought it was only for the part released on the OST (and therefore the track as released on the OST was the finished and 'true' product) Now I can believe that is was possibly meant for the entire cue.

And who knows maybe TPM sith wispers were also Williams' (or was it confirmed that it was burtt making?)

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A couple of things I recently noticed:

. The so-called "Circus Organ Sweetener" in "Escape from the Train" (aka "Indy's Very First Adventure") is actually there on the new CD! If you listen well, it's mixed very faintly with the orchestral part.

I don't hear it...

. The 8M3 Fix Alternate in Raiders (aka "Through the Wall" alternate) could have been written to segue directly into "Indy Rides the Statue" (aka 8M3 Fix). The cue should start right after Marion accidentally tries to flame out Indy's whip and he screams "Gee, this one's no!"

What do you think?

Holy crap.... I think you're right!

Notice that the very start of the cue on the CD is timed in the film to the shot of Indy's whip latching onto the statue.... but there's actually music playing BEFORE that shot.... I think that's the so called "8m3 fix alternate"! They just only used the very end of it...

PS he actually says "Jesus!" not "Gee this one's no" :huh:

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I don't think it makes sense for "8M3 Fix Alternate" and 8M3 Fix to be consecutive. If that were the case "8M3 Fix Alternate" would start under Indy and Marion's dialogue about the dress. I believe it works to replace 0:22-0:59 of 8M3 Fix with "8M3 Fix Alternate." It sounds as if Spielberg kept asking for more explosive music and finally just tracked the Raiders March in.

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Yes, that's part of it, but it's probably tracked. The transition to 8M3 Fix (the shot of the whip latching onto the statue) does not sound natural. Also, the sheet music does not account for this at all.

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I don't think it makes sense for them to record music to replace just 0:22-0:59 of the cue.... they would have just re-recorded the opening 20 seconds and the ending as well I would think...

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And who knows maybe TPM sith wispers were also Williams' (or was it confirmed that it was burtt making?)

I think the "Korah Rahtamah" whispers were purposefully recorded separately by Williams and then used during the mix whenever Lucas and Burtt wanted.

I don't hear it...

Probably my ears are playing tricks on me... :lol:

I don't think it makes sense for "8M3 Fix Alternate" and 8M3 Fix to be consecutive. If that were the case "8M3 Fix Alternate" would start under Indy and Marion's dialogue about the dress. I believe it works to replace 0:22-0:59 of 8M3 Fix with "8M3 Fix Alternate." It sounds as if Spielberg kept asking for more explosive music and finally just tracked the Raiders March in.

I don't know, I tried to sync it up with the film and it worked pretty well. But it could also be as you're saying.

Let's try to figure out the scoring process of that scene:

. Williams writes the original 8M3 "Escape from the Pit" (aka "The Mummy Cave"). The piece starts just when Indy cracks the whip around the statue and climbs up.

. Spielberg asks Johnny to replace the first part of the cue with something more exciting and driving. So, Williams writes the 8M3 Fix (aka "Indy Rides the Statue") to replace the first minute or so of the original cue.

. Spielberg maybe feels the scene needs to be even more pumped up musically and then asks Williams to write more driving music to build up the tension and the excitement. Johnny writes the 8M3 Fix Alternate as a build up to the next cue. However, in the final mix they feel it's better to start the music later, only when Indy actually decides to climb the statue to break the wall.

I'm quite sure both the Fixes were written on the spot by Williams.

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Well, the "alternate" cue builds to an even stronger climax than 8M3 Fix, so it doesn't make sense to me that it would come first, especially considering that nothing too remarkable is going on at that point in the film. The part of it that is tracked in doesn't include the ending, I think.

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Yep, that's exactly why I'm not so sure of my theory. However, it could also be this is the reason why the cue was then played down in the final mix. Maybe Williams took the indication to write an "exciting build up" too literally and it didn't work out.

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Does anyone know if the full "Return to the Village and End Credits" track is supposed to have quite a bit of Raiders March even before the end titles start to roll?

That's what I ended up with now, but it strikes me as if there might be some duplicated material in there.

After all, most of the Raiders March is in the actual end title as well.

Also, can 4m3 Insert from ToD be gotten from the DVD rip without much SFX?

At the moment I have a Welcome to Pankot Palace and a Welcome to Pankot Palace (Alternate) track,

the first being the album version, the second being the DVD rip.

Personally I don't want to have any alternates, unless they're really different, so I'm wondering what to do with this...

For the arrival at the village, I now have:

The Starving Village (DVD Rip)

They Stole the Children (Indy and the Villagers Concord track)

Fortune and Glory (DVD Rip)

They Stole the Children (LEGO Alternate)

All the actual "Temple of Doom" music had me thoroughly confused.

For now, I have:

The Thuggee Ceremony (From the Low-SFX Bootleg)

Approaching the Stones (Concord track)

Children in Chains (Concord track)

The Blood of Khali (Low-SFX Bootleg + first part of "Short Round Escapes" from the Low-SFX Bootleg)

I am confused as to what to do with the end of the "Short Round Escapes" track from the Low-SFX Bootleg, because it doesn't seem to be on the Concord.

Also, how about Willie's sacrifice that is supposed to play after that scene?

And which of the "The Temple of Doom" album track is actually used in the film and where?

Another question, the rope bridge percussion from the LEGO game IS an alternate, right?

It's not some unused music that is supposed to be combined with the film version then, is it?

Did "Anything Goes (Instrumental)" come from the opening scene rear channels?

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Does anybody have a reliable guide on how to arrange an expanded KOTCS soundtrack, using the rear channel DVD rips, the 3 pre-viz sequences, the OST, and any other DVD/non-DVD source I may not be aware of? Santa Claus brought me this unexpected surprise, and I'd like to use it wisely. If it's in an earlier post, I didn't find it. Thanks!

Does anybody have a reliable guide on how to arrange an expanded KOTCS soundtrack, using the rear channel DVD rips, the 3 pre-viz sequences, the OST, and any other DVD/non-DVD source I may not be aware of? Santa Claus brought me this unexpected surprise, and I'd like to use it wisely.

Eh, I scoured the whole thread, there may be enough to go on. I don't honestly know who to pm to hear somebody else's arrangement, as I am several months late to the KOTCS expansion party.

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FYI, I'm starting the process of engraving the unreleased-and-mostly-unused "Willy in the Fryer" in Finale. If I ever finish, I'll upload the resulting audio file so we can hear what it would have sounded like.

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I apologize if this isn't the right place to bring this up, or if someone else has already brought this up without me noticing. But...the 8-second pizzicato melody is not the only missing music in Through Chinatown. Right around 0:25 in Concord's "Fast Streets of Shanghai", the eighth-note string figures are supposed to continue for 4 more bars (one of them is in 2/4) before the horns come in. It's all there in the DVD audio, and the score confirms that it was indeed written that way, not simply looped in editing. The rear channels of the region 1 DVD are very clean for this part, but the sound quality is, of course, not the best. Again, sorry if this was already brought up - and it seems like it must have been - but I haven't seen mention of that anywhere, and the information is missing from indianajonesmusic.com, at the very least. =)

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This is definitely the right place and I can't believe I never noticed it before!!

I'll check it out as soon as I get home!

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I found this on filmtracks new review of raiders:

. The aforementioned dissonant crescendo used for the scene in which the Ark burns a hole through the Nazi crate on the boat is not the same as what was originally recorded by Williams.

Never heard of this. I feel its not correct?

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The OST, Album, and Concord versions are all the same and are what Williams originally recorded.

In the actual film there is some of sound effects thingy instead

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The OST, Album, and Concord versions are all the same and are what Williams originally recorded.

In the actual film there is some of sound effects thingy instead

Yes, I once thought it was an alternate version too...

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I apologize if this isn't the right place to bring this up, or if someone else has already brought this up without me noticing. But...the 8-second pizzicato melody is not the only missing music in Through Chinatown. Right around 0:25 in Concord's "Fast Streets of Shanghai", the eighth-note string figures are supposed to continue for 4 more bars (one of them is in 2/4) before the horns come in. It's all there in the DVD audio, and the score confirms that it was indeed written that way, not simply looped in editing. The rear channels of the region 1 DVD are very clean for this part, but the sound quality is, of course, not the best. Again, sorry if this was already brought up - and it seems like it must have been - but I haven't seen mention of that anywhere, and the information is missing from indianajonesmusic.com, at the very least. =)

Datameister is absolutely right. There's about 6 seconds chopped out of the album version at 0:24. Damn. I'll have to update the site

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I actually noticed it quite some time ago... but I thought it was just looped... I'm glad I can still count on my ears...

Thanks, Datameister! Good work, Jason! Oh, by the way, I managed to find a VCR and I played my old VHS of Temple of Doom and indeed that small section of "Slalom" sounds different... I'm gonna see if I can borrow it so that I can transfer to my PC...

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Datameister is absolutely right. There's about 6 seconds chopped out of the album version at 0:24. Damn. I'll have to update the site

Can this segment be taken clean off the DVD rear channels?

I sincerely hope not, just finished my edit.

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It's very clean from the rear channels - I'm listening to it on my Sony MDR 7506 headphones in a quiet environment, and I'm not picking up any SFX or dialogue or anything whatsoever. The sound quality is muted in comparison to the OST as you'd expect with the rear channels, so it's a noticeable edit, but it is, for all intents and purposes, 100% clean. EDIT: And regarding the other missing section - if you can stomach slight SFX, I actually prefer to include the front channels for that one. All you can hear is some slight rustling - probably Indy trying to find the vial in Willie's dress - but there's a dramatic increase in sound quality, and it's worth it for me. But I understand if it's not a fair trade for some listeners.

EDIT: Hey, would someone be willing to PM me the best available version of the TLC bootlegs? I have a copy that I bought on CD a few years back, but now I'm wondering if it's actually the best out there. A lot of artifacts are audible (from noise removal, I assume), but they're clean and obviously not DVD rips. Anyway, all I need is those unedited boot tracks in case there's actually a better version out there than what I've already got. I'm starting my TLC edit now, having just finished TOD, and I want to avoid having to redo my work too much, so I figure I may as well gather my resources now. =P

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Thanks very much, Jason! You rock. =D

In other news - although this might have already been covered - it's worth noting that the guitar that's heard in the statements of the theme for the cross of Coronado was apparently recorded separately. It's only heard in the center channel of the DVD rip. I dunno if this was recorded as a separate, written-down cue or if someone simply told a guitarist to play three arpeggiated chords. =P Unfortunately, it's not a clean rip by a long shot, but the guitar-less version is certainly audible.

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Why would you need to rip anything from the DVD for the Cross of Coronada segments? Its all on the Concord set minus the circus organ sweetener and 5 second sweetener

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Sorry for the confusion...I worded that poorly. I meant that the guitar was recorded separately and mixed into the center channel of the DVD as well as the Concord release, but the original orchestra-only recording can be heard in the front and rear channels. =)

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I'm sure most people wouldn't want that on their edits, but I'll probably throw it in at the end of mine as a bonus track, simply because it's interesting to deconstruct the cues.

Now, Jason and Valentinice already know this, but the rest of y'all do not - apparently, I have several bootlegged TLC tracks that are of higher quality than what's currently making the rounds! The quality is still pretty bad, but it's definitely not as bad. I'm not sure how many tracks are an improvement, but I know it's not all of the bootlegged tracks. The part that's unfortunate is that I don't have lossless versions of the files at the moment, but my hope is that I will within a few days. (Not worth explaining why.) Then I'll upload them for everyone to enjoy! =D EDIT: Stand by...we're still verifying that they are indeed different files of better quality...

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No, digitalfreaknyc was the source of the RAIDERS boot

He never shared his Last Crusade files with us until a few months ago when he heard the ones in the editing package and realized his were better

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DigitalFreak's have hiss,but no "compression" artifacts from excessive processing of the files

And also I wouldn;t be surprised if a totally new LC boot showed up from another

concord leak

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It does indeed remain to be seen. But I don't think it's a hiss-reduction issue, though. I've heard some the files with and without the reduction, and this seems to be a whole 'nother issue, almost as if someone changed the tempo of the boot without changing the pitch, or vice versa. They sound more "hiccupy" than the files I've got, which don't have the best sound quality but don't have significant hiss or hiss-reduction artifacts. It's just a few files, not all of them - a couple of the "Death of Kazim" inserts, for instance. Nothing too substantial, but interesting nonetheless.

Okay, I again apologize if this has been discussed, but as I'm listening to the DVD rips of TLC, the sound quality is waaaaay dryer than what you hear on the OSTs, at least for the first few cues. (I haven't gotten very far. =P) I really think they might have introduced artificial reverb after the fact. Thoughts?

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i know i may have passed some LC cues to someone long time ago, and i played with downplaying them 4% since they were faster and it was said in the old track listing. before i knew about tempo and pitch so i may have done it bad

It was you datameister?

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