Ricard 2,245 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 It seems a lot of film music fans define Williams with his output from 75-82. I think those years were very non-Williams.Tell that to all those who fell in love with his music during that period, myself included. People are too attached to those few years where he was trying something new.Who are you to tell me that I'm too attached to anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Far and Away is on a completely different level from War Horse. As is Angela's Ashes.The Patriot is generally a more satisfying listen, with a more expansive emotional palette and a knockout love theme that eats the "bonding" theme from War Horse for lunch.One score with which War Horse does compare favorably is Amistad, although the latter's highlights are as good as anything in the former. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Who are you to tell me that I'm too attached to anything?Hey watch it Ricard. This is Alejandro we're talking about... For me the essence of John Williams brilliance lies in his 1975 - 1984 period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 Period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 It would have been more effective if you locked the thread after typing "Period!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 YES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 13, 2011 Share Posted November 13, 2011 John Williams has been writing brilliant music from his beginning as a composer until... well probably until the day he dies. Everyone will of course have their own personal preferences of when his "peak" was. It's certainly an interesting topic to discuss, but shouldn't be taking place in a thread dedicated to the themes of the War Horse OST and Incanus' wonderful review of said OST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted November 14, 2011 Share Posted November 14, 2011 You should know better, Stefan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Question for those of you who have seen the film: Is the OST in chronological order?I would guess it either already is completely chronological, or if not then only one or two cues tacked into the end of a OST track are out of place and that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 You should know better, Stefan...Huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpigeon 3 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Question for those of you who have seen the film: Is the OST in chronological order?I would guess it either already is completely chronological, or if not then only one or two cues tacked into the end of a OST track are out of place and that's it.Based on the track titles and what I've heard of the clips so far, I would say that the album presentation of the score is pretty in-line with the film I can say for sure that the last four or five tracks are chronological. I'll check back next week about the first 10 tracks or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted November 18, 2011 Share Posted November 18, 2011 Am I the only one who is getting a Star Trek vibe from the "War Theme"? It's mostly just the first four notes but whenever I hear it I think of the Enterprise flying over a WWI battlefield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 May I just say...3:15-3:40 of "Bringing Joey Home and Bonding"Makes me misty eyed. Every damn time. It is hear-rending and beautiful in a way only Jerry Goldsmith and John Williams can be with their gentler music. The echoing and lingering melody...held by the players just a moment longer, followed by a moment of hesitation just before the strings gently ease into deeper chords that tear your heart out.Words cannot do justice to the magic that takes place from 3:22-3:32 within that frame of time. And it's all fucking buried in the middle of a comedy track. No other composer working today could accomplish such an amazing contrast, yet alone accomplish it so well.Onions get chopped every time I listen to this lovely track... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 You gotta love the french horn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,690 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have so many misty-eyed moments in this score.- The statement at the beginning of Remembering Emilie.- The Homecoming, 3:35....I'm in heaven. Particularly at 3:50 when those strings make such a subtle base.- Learning the Call - 0:30 - don'tcha just love those 'rolling' strings. I can picture a horseride over the landscape.And I'm loving to bits the buildup throughout Plowing. Even when it lowers slightly at the 3 min point, there's still an undercurrent there which so satisfyingly culminates in the two huge thematic statements and lovely woodwind solo.The themes in this score are literally rolling through my brain. This really kicks KotCS completely out of the park in quality for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I have so many misty-eyed moments in this score.- The statement at the beginning of Remembering Emilie.- The Homecoming, 3:35....I'm in heaven. Particularly at 3:50 when those strings make such a subtle base.- Learning the Call - 0:30 - don'tcha just love those 'rolling' strings. I can picture a horseride over the landscape.And I'm loving to bits the buildup throughout Plowing. Even when it lowers slightly at the 3 min point, there's still an undercurrent there which so satisfyingly culminates in the two huge thematic statements and lovely woodwind solo.The themes in this score are literally rolling through my brain. This really kicks KotCS completely out of the park in quality for me.I agree with everything you said...down to the other moments.With each listen, this score creeps further and further up my John Williams favorites. I don't want to be hasty, but there is a possibility when all is settled and done this will be a top 10 or even top fiver.And finally, to the lone three people disappointed by this amazing score:Sucks for you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 War Horse is easily the best (as in "most accessible") Williams score since SS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I found Tintin more accessible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Upon hearing War Horse for the first time, I thought "this is a classic".Didn't happen with Tintin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Usually scores that sound brilliant at the first spin will later lose their appeal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I very much doubt that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Some reveal everything to you at the first turn. Leaving nothing to discover later on.Not saying War Horse is like that though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I'd actually agree with Steef. In fact, I think that reasoning is why I am gradually holding War Horse in higher and higher esteem. When I first heard it, it seemed slow and plodding, it wasn't quite as immediately gratifying to me. As I listen more and more and begin to grasp the context of the score my appreciation for its individual tracks started going up. And the discovery continues. I've always said around here that I think the best music sounds deceptively simple. And yet when you closely inspect it, you realize that simplicity is the result of an intense amount of thinking and work on the part of the composer. The number of notes may not be huge, but so much thought has been put in to each and every one that each beat of the music is a story on its own. With scores of that caliber, as you listen and listen, you find something new every time, no matter how long you've been listening. "Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 What an articulate and insightful post.Just a pity that that picture is under it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 I'm gonna fix that just for you. Give me a minute. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,690 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'd actually agree with Steef. In fact, I think that reasoning is why I am gradually holding War Horse in higher and higher esteem.When I first heard it, it seemed slow and plodding, it wasn't quite as immediately gratifying to me. As I listen more and more and begin to grasp the context of the score my appreciation for its individual tracks started going up. And the discovery continues.+1I had to get used to the slow, deliberate style of this score, and I didn't find it immediately gratifying.In fact, the piano solo in Remembering Emilie did nothing for me at first, but once I listened to the album in order and I heard the rendition in The Reunion, it suddenly opened up.This score is brimming with emotion that Tintin completely lacks for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My reaction to War Horse is that it sounds deceptively fresh. I would say that it comes closest to any Williams score in a long time to creating its own sound world, its own distinct soundscape. And that's an achievement unto itself. Clearly there was a connection Williams felt with the film and its visuals that manifested itself in his music.But -- and of course this is where the heavy subjectivity is fully evident -- there's a point in listening to this score at which the initial freshness gives way to something that seems fairly well trodden -- just in a different guise. The protestation here is that to expect anything beyond that is to expect the composer to deny his own style. But I will maintain that when I listen to "Dartmoor, 1912" or "No Man's Land," I can hear the gears grinding, I can hear the noise of Williams the craftsman at work in his shop. When I listen to "The Mecha World" or "Abandoned in the Woods," Williams the magician the swiftly and imperceptibly transports me to another world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I halfway agree, the swollen pathos of some of the later cues (and the big action sound of NO MAN'S LAND) sounds very much like the same hoary old Hollywood clichés we're used to - and nobody would congratulate i. e. JNH on accomplishing that - but it's in the more elaborate rural writing in the first half i find real pleasures.The HOMECOMING cue is as close as you can get to concert music, so i guess what's contained therein is what Williams found at the heart of the movie.I'd say a good 8 out of ten in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 The closest to this one is, I think, Far and Away. In terms of tone and quality, I mean.But -- and of course this is where the heavy subjectivity is fully evident -- there's a point in listening to this score at which the initial freshness gives way to something that seems fairly well trodden -- just in a different guise. The protestation here is that to expect anything beyond that is to expect the composer to deny his own style. But I will maintain that when I listen to "Dartmoor, 1912" or "No Man's Land," I can hear the gears grinding, I can hear the noise of Williams the craftsman at work in his shop. When I listen to "The Mecha World" or "Abandoned in the Woods," Williams the magician the swiftly and imperceptibly transports me to another world.These are good points, of course. But is it fair to expect Williams to reinvent the wheel this time around? It's conservative and old-fashioned film as they get. Besides, he's not the kind of composer who's made his name by bending the rules.Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Well, I seem to be in the minority here.I was blown away when I first heard it, and I still am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Well, I seem to be in the minority here.I was blown away when I first heard it, and I still am.Yeah I actually had the same reaction. I was blown away by this music on my first listen and all the numerous subsequent listens have not diminished that feeling. It has heart and soul of a classic JW score, dash of that innocent wide eyed wonder, the familiar yet fresh Williams sound and a delightfully luminous spirit. I feel that the music somehow gathers all that is great about Williams' music from different decades into a one score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I also agree. Everytime I listen to the CD I find new parts to enjoy and i never get bored at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Did I say I wasn't blown away?Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I don't understand gkyver's post either. The score is pretty much universally praised by everyone who's heard it, and then he posts that he must be in the minority that he was blown away by it >shrug< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I thought the discussion was whether you are taken by it upon your first listening or whether you need to warm up to it, as those statements clearly say:I'd actually agree with Steef. In fact, I think that reasoning is why I am gradually holding War Horse in higher and higher esteem.When I first heard it, it seemed slow and plodding, it wasn't quite as immediately gratifying to me. As I listen more and more and begin to grasp the context of the score my appreciation for its individual tracks started going up. And the discovery continues.+1I had to get used to the slow, deliberate style of this score, and I didn't find it immediately gratifying.In fact, the piano solo in Remembering Emilie did nothing for me at first, but once I listened to the album in order and I heard the rendition in The Reunion, it suddenly opened up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 There were some recent posts along those lines, but overall people have been extremely positive about it. I think its a wonderful score, easily my favorite JW drama score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,690 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It's easily in my top 10 Williams scores. It just took a few proper listens to get up there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hlao-roo 389 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It should be obvious to anyone that knows anything, Ricard, that War Horse is the 156th greatest film score of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Amen to that!Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 21, 2011 Author Share Posted November 21, 2011 Hallelujah to that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years?I've listened to a bunch of JW drama scores in my day and I like War Horse more than all of them. What's wrong with that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years?They might just have good intuition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brónach 1,302 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I usually need to give stuff time to see it with more perpective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 It takes a couple of months for me.But others can pin it down in one listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I'm not putting it in any lists or anything, I'm simply saying I like it more than his other drama scores.Way too soon to be putting either score on any lists IMHO, especially since I haven't seen either movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 I think the viewing of the film will only raise this score's worth in my eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,690 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I'm not putting it in any lists or anything, I'm simply saying I like it more than his other drama scores.Way too soon to be putting either score on any lists IMHO, especially since I haven't seen either movieI don't think it's too soon, in terms of listenability.I've heard the album all the way through at least twice now and I already prefer listening to it than many of JW's other scores. Hence, it goes higher on the theoretical list.For Tintin, viewing the film actually didn't help much; I still think the same of it (i.e. a decent score, but not one that really appeals to me much). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricard 2,245 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 How can a score that has just been released be in anyone's top 10 or even become someone's favorite JW drama score? Have you guys even had time to compare it to every other Williams score from the past 40 years?I've listened to a bunch of JW drama scores in my day and I like War Horse more than all of them. What's wrong with that?There's obviously nothing wrong with that. But it puzzles me nonetheless. I would understand it if you meant that these are the scores you listen to the most these days (for whatever reason). But my personal favorites (or best, greatest, top x, whatever, it's all the same) are the result of decades of listening and experiencing the music countless times. I think some perspective is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 I agree.Remember all discussion there was about The Patriot, how brilliant it was. It was like Far and Away but better, best JW drama score ever etc....Now it's barely mentioned anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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