The Official Media Ventures Thread.

[King Mark 3,631]

Ok,since Michael Giacchino and LotR music are limited to only 1 thread,I say Media Ventures composers and scores(Hans Zimmer,Badelt,GrigsonWilliams,PotC...ect...) should be discussed in this thread,because they all sound the same anyways.

K.M.

[tpigeon 3]

MV sucks!

Ted

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Except that some of the MV branch-outs don't compose that way anymore, like HGW.

Ray Barnsbury - who knows that if people just listened to Sinbad, they'd realize this *sigh*

[tpigeon 3]

I was just joking. I actually don't hate them as much as everyone else seems to. Sinbad is one of my favorite scores in the past few years; Gregson-Williams also has as fine an outut recently as any composer, with Kingdom of Heaven and Chronicles of Narnia. John Powell has surprised me from time to time. I even like some Zimmer - believe it or not - including Gladiator, Crimson Tide, the Thin Red Line, Lion King, and Beyond Rangoon.

Ted

[bondo 33]

That's not entirely true Ray. Domino, Team America, Man on Fire, and Metal Gear Solid 3 (all by Harry Gregson-Williams in the last 2 years) sound pretty MediaVentures-ish. One of my favorite tracks on Sinbad (17 - Rescue) is also unmistakably MV. But I see what you are saying, some of them are definitely branching out into a different style (X-Men 3, Chronicles of Narnia, Kingdom of Heaven).

[tpigeon 3]

Team America was supposed to be MV sounding. He is ridiculing a style he once perpetuated. And just because he uses electronic music, that doesn't mean he sounds very MV. He does electronic much better.

Ted

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Parts of Narnia still have some MVish "power anthem" influence. For the record, I don't like the "power anthem" stuff... what some call power I call mindless notes, mostly of the same length, mostly repeated the same way. Now Narnia was very good for the most part as far as I recall, but at some points it still had that distinctive MV influence. I want the CD someday though; I enjoyed it far more than some other usual HGW favourites - the popular Shrek scores sounded far too MVish for my taste.

[pi 0]

More and more Zimmer fans creep from the woodwork these days.

[bondo 33]

While there are fewer and fewer Williams fans skulking around the darkness these days...

:roll:

[tpigeon 3]

Please, hold the accusations against me. I'm a Williams fan through and thick. I'm just unafraid to say I enjoy some of Zimmer's stuff.

Ted

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

I actually wasn't referring to you, Ted. I know where you stand on those scores.

And yeah, Narnia has some power anthem to it, most notably in the presentations of Peter's theme in the battle. In that sense, Sinbad and KoH are less "MV"-inspired. Still, writing with numerous themes in a leitmotivic style, while using a full pallette of almost completely orchestral colors is what HGW's been doing more and more. And that's hardly MV at all.

Ray Barnsbury

[AI 0]

Hans Zimmer was an established film composer before he founded the MV company. I don't know if everyone is aware of that...

I like some of his early scores, Black Rain, Rainman, Crimson Tide, Days of Thunder. Some great themes in there, and at that time, it was something quite new in film scores, that dynamic, forceful sound.

The other Media Ventures minions are not nearly as good as Zimmer though. they are like a tenth of a Zimmer.

Veronica Guerin was effective, in the film, but not something I would want to hear outside of the film.

[bondo 33]

I think terms like "better" and "worse" are thrown around way too often when it comes to film composers and scores.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Erm, lets change MV to Remote Control now shall we? LOL

[tpigeon 3]

One of Zimmer's finest scores, and a real showcase for his very real talent, is The Lion King. He scored this in a period before his booming "brass" action writing, and he captures the guilt and redemption aspects of the story in the music extremely well. It is one of my favorite Disney scores, and possibly Zimmer's best.

Ted

[ymenard 54]

Exactly, "Team America" works as a pastiche of Media Ventu.. errr Remote Control Productions. He ridiculises all concept of audio perceptions we now have with that type of orchestral sound, the pompous stuff, the militaristic tempos, the way you'll have big crashes of wall-of-sound... it's almost as we would hear a typical "Zimmer guitar" from the Rock.

[tpigeon 3]

I listen to Team America for the shear kicks every now and then, though I must admit that I listen to the songs on the album quite a bit more. Gregson-Williams' score is quite funny though, especially the "emotional" music.

Ted

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

One of Zimmer's finest scores, and a real showcase for his very real talent, is The Lion King. He scored this in a period before his booming "brass" action writing, and he captures the guilt and redemption aspects of the story in the music extremely well. It is one of my favorite Disney scores, and possibly Zimmer's best.

Ted

I think its his best. Too bad about the rather poor official release, and thank heavens for the expanded boot

[ymenard 54]

Yeah the best thing with Team America is not only the nice work by HGW, but even more those songs... I mean they are all classics "You need a montage... Montage!!!"

[Magnus 0]

This is my general feeling about Zimmer scores... e.g. when I first heard Last Samurai I had almost a hard time believing it was Zimmer... second time I saw it I thought... well, this is Zimmer after all... 3rd time I got an even worse impression, and that's how it goes on... (especially after hearing Memoirs of a Geisha, Zimmer's attempts at Japan inspired music seems futile!).

Gladiator is another score that followed the same pattern... I dunno, I guess Zimmer just disappoint more and more the more you hear it?

[bondo 33]

That's definitely the opposite for me. I usually don't appreciate the latest Zimmer score until I listen to it several times and hear it within the context of the film.

[futuremartymcfly 0]

the only time I found MV useful is when watching a sports match, its the only thing that it adds intensity to, mainly because your not paying enough attention to the music.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

This is my general feeling about Zimmer scores... e.g. when I first heard Last Samurai I had almost a hard time believing it was Zimmer

erm, how can you not believe it was Zimmer? His sound (or the MV/RC sound if you like) is very distinctive and instantly recognizable.

Burga - who found The Last Samurai score a big bore

[Magnus 0]

This is my general feeling about Zimmer scores... e.g. when I first heard Last Samurai I had almost a hard time believing it was Zimmer

erm, how can you not believe it was Zimmer? His sound (or the MV/RC sound if you like) is very distinctive and instantly recognizable.

Burga - who found The Last Samurai score a big bore

I dunno what it was first time I saw the movie, I just couldn't believe it (although I agree there were more then one hint). I guess it was the japanese flutes or something. Or maybe even the fact that I didn't think Zimmer would write a score like that?

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

the low synth droning and power anthem signaled to me it was Zimmer off the bat.

[bondo 33]

Alan Silvestri, Jerry Goldsmith, James Newton Howard, John Debney, and David Arnold all wrote/write power anthems.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Alan Silvestri, Jerry Goldsmith, James Newton Howard, John Debney, and David Arnold all wrote/write good power anthems.

[bondo 33]

The point being, many of them sounded very very much alike. "Good", of course, is personal preference.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes but Silvestri's power anthems usually don't sound much like Goldsmith's, or Arnold's.

Rabin power anthems sounds like Zimmer, Gregson Williams power anthems sound like Zimmer...etc...etc....

The pronlem I have with MV/RC is that their music seems to be much more a product then an artform. Of course this is inherent to film music, but it's just too apparent with MV/RC.

[Ollie 1,059]

Indeed it does.

[bondo 33]

Yes but Silvestri's power anthems usually don't sound much like Goldsmith's, or Arnold's.

I didn't make my point clear. Their power anthems don't sound like each other's. Each individual composer writes power anthems that sound alike, the same way Zimmer's do. I'm not talking about MV, because yes, many of them have copied Zimmer's power anthem style.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The pronlem I have with MV/RC is that their music seems to be much more a product then an artform.

Unfortunately I work in visual effects, which follows a "factory" like process as well on many occasions where time is simply not there. Our end products are the result of the efforts of sometimes dozens of people all working on one part of the finished product. We have people who make concept art, model, people who texture, people who actually build physical models, people who animate those models, people who composite all those things together. I myself am a technical director, I oversee lighting and shaders, the extra effects to make metal look like metal, and basically making everything turn out the way the Zimmer (or director) wants.

All that combines to make that extra magic you see on the screen.

Of course, many people don't think of the visual effects of movies, as an artform. Who actually stopped and said "WOW that opening shot of A New Hope, is some awesome art?" Yet I bet that single shot has capitvated peoples imaginations just as much as any cue John Williams has written, and any painting Picasso has done.

Personally, and I'm biased, I don't think one bit that a collaborative effort makes something less an artform. It doesn't always make good art, but it is still an art.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

CGI is overused in film, but I often find the efforts of the artists creating those effects are underestimated.

[tpigeon 3]

Very well put.

Ted

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

CGI is overused in film, but I often find the efforts of the artists creating those effects are underestimated.

and underappreciated?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Aye.

[Magnus 0]

the low synth droning and power anthem signaled to me it was Zimmer off the bat.

must've been one of those rare occassions when I didn't listen very much to the music... I did see it with some of the most music uninterested people in the history of time

[Ollie 1,059]

The best CGI is when you don't notice it.

[tpigeon 3]

Does the same principle hold true for the score? If not, why? I believe that the best CGI is used to support storytelling, not the other way around.

Ted

[Ollie 1,059]

Music is meant to support the film but if you have a poor film the music can stand out and distract the viewer. A recent example for me was Along Came A Spider. Goldsmith's music, while not that great, was too good for the film. While watching it I felt the music was out of place, the scenes just didn't have the excitement that the music was providing.

I agree CGI should support the story.

Granted there will be times you'll notice that something is CGI (good or bad can apply) but a good movie can make you forget or accept the quality of the visuals because they are part of what you are viewing.

Jurassic Park's T-Rex sequence is so well done that it doesn't even look like CGI

Spiderman and FOTR come to mind as obvious to average CGI but the actual plot is good enough to overcome the effects.

AOTC's CGI is made worse by the fact that the story is so poor and un-interesting.

[ymenard 54]

Saying that CGI should support the story is like telling that color in photography should be used only when necessary. It can be used to create the most amazing things. There is nothing that forces directors to have the laws of reality dictate the movement of their virtual cameras. Why hold up directors? If they want to do that, let them do that.

We simply have to admit that classical artistic values have exploded and cannot apply to past experiences anymore. Cinema Verité is from the past. So are silent movies.

CGI can or cannot support it. It doesn't make one better than the other.

[tpigeon 3]

CGI being used to support a story is different than saying you shouldn't notice it. It depends on the film, the director, and the story he or she wants to tell. That is what determines the use of CGI. I agree that directors should use the technology as they please; I'm not one to say what directors can and cannot do. But when creating neat effects overshadows the characters, themes, and storytelling, I suspect that it has gone too far. CGI is becoming like the color film; everyone will be so used to it that they fail to appreciate it, filmmakers and spectators.

Ted

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

FOTR come to mind as obvious to average CGI

I think you're confusing style with quality.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

AOTC's CGI is made worse by the fact that the story is so poor and un-interesting.

Was the CGi really bad or were they (ILM) just stretching its limits a bit too far at that time?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

ILM was trying to do too much in too little time I guess.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

For its time AoTC's visual effects, were bar none amazing.

The battle in the sandstorm (once the Federation ship crashes) was one of the most impressive FX sequences I've seen.

However, a good bit doesn't hold up to the passage of time, mainly the clones and Yoda.

Another problem was also the radical shift in style, while Episode I was more in line with what we'd come to expect of Star Wars, Episode II suddenly pulled a fantasy on us. Things became glowy, lighting was over-dramatized, with impossible sunsets, and there was an extreme color pallete that we'd not really expected out of a Star Wars film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For its time AoTC's visual effects, were bar none amazing.

Rubbish, you make it sound like AOTC was shot in 1982.

Special effects live and die on their details. and while many of the effects were good, a lot just were not good enough.

[ymenard 54]

I completely dissagree

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

With me or with Bluhmenguy?

[Ollie 1,059]

Much of AOTC's scenes looked like the actors were standing on a green screen sets.