Bothersome bits from the Skywalker Symphony cd...

[artyjeffrey 20]

Hope this hasn't been brought up before, and if it has, sorry. But the other day I got a hold of the John Williams Conducts John Williams: The Star Wars Trilogy featuring "The Skywalker Symphony" from 1990 Sony Classical. Anyways, aside from the brass sounding a bit weak, overall it's all right (doesn't hold a candle to the originals, of course)... except for track 13, "Throne Room and Finale."

Basically, the first "boom-tz" occurs way too early, and then there's this VERY obvious cut that occurs at 2:07 that jarred me a little. I couldn't believe the misplaced "boom-tz."

Anyways, what's really goofy is the liner note by Lucas himself. On page 8, he said, "John is an extremely talented composer, one of the best film composers in the world." So, if he isn't the best, but only one of the best, then who is, and why didn't Lucas go after that guy/girl to score his films?

Lucas then says that during the recordings for Empire, "at one point we even considered actually recording inside a cathedral. Unfortunately, the motion picture equipment made that impractical." But in the early '70s, didn't Bernard Herrmann record in a cathedral for a film score? I remember reading something like that in Steven Smith's A Heart At Fire's Center, can't remember exactly which score.

But my favorite thing that I took away from this was the final note: "It was thrilling to have John Williams re-recording the Star Wars music as the inauguration of our facility at Skywalker Ranch." Ain't it funny that after Lucas shelled out this cash to build this studio, when it came time for the Prequels, JW went to Abbey Road with the LSO?!! I bet Lucas had visions of even doing the scoring for the film right there at his ranch!

[A24 4,333]

... brass sounding a bit weak ...

Define "weak" and why does it sound worse than the harsh-sounding brass of the originals?

[Henry B 50]

The Skywalker Symphony performance is a little lazy, but it beats the film's recording by miles. Alex is right... incredibly harsh brass. I guess Star Wars is a trip down memory lane, but the recording's just not there - or the remastering failed. Imagine the original Star Wars sounding like the remastered Close Encounters; now that's sound quality.

[artyjeffrey 20]

... brass sounding a bit weak ...

Define "weak" and why does it sound worse than the harsh-sounding brass of the originals?

I guess I mean not "hot"-sounding. They weren't recorded with the mics "hot" like they were for the originals.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

The Skywalker Symphony album contains excellent recordings throughout, contrary to what most people here will say. Imperial March and Asteroid Field in particular are standouts.

And Lucas could just as well have hired Jerry Goldsmith to score the movies, to name just one other composer. Would it have been different? Sure. Would it still have been great? Probably.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

But them Golsmith would not have been able to score ROTS and that would be a tragedy!

BUt would have he scored all other Five? He didnt do all Star Treks, even the first ones.

[Frosty 0]

"Throne Room and Finale."

Basically, the first "boom-tz" occurs way too early,  I couldn't believe the misplaced "boom-tz."

This is a common misconception. In the Star Wars Suite published back in the 1978, the bass drum/cymbal crash is notated where it falls in the recording. Although I don't have the Williams Signature Edition version, I do believe that particular bass crum/ cymbal crash has been removed.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

i bought this cd on amazon for 97 cents just now

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

The Skywalker Symphony album contains excellent recordings throughout, contrary to what most people here will say. Imperial March and Asteroid Field in particular are standouts.

Agreed.

[Lurker 5]

i bought this cd on amazon for 97 cents just now

You overpaid.

Neil

[KingPin 201]

The Cantina Band rendition is pure fun, as is Here They Come, in my opinion. I disagree about the Asteroid Field. I felt like it was rather dry and simply dragging in tempo, lacking any excitement. I prefer the Boston Pops recording of it. Same goes for Parade of the Ewoks. I agree that the brass is harsh at times (as in the Main Theme, when we hear Luke's motif for the second time, there's that annoying trumpet riff completely overshadowing the theme).

[tony69 0]

with regards to the recording in a cathedral, maybe it costed too much? remember lucas was very short on cash since it looked like the movie would be a stupid movie. so maybe he didnt want to go overbudget?

[KingPin 201]

...and then there's this VERY obvious cut that occurs at 2:07 that jarred me a little.

I'm listening to the piece right now and I'm not sure I know what you're referring to in the music. I mean, there's nothing that seems to catch me off guard, nor has there ever been at that section. Could you please elaborate?

[A24 4,333]

The Skywalker Symphony album contains excellent recordings throughout, contrary to what most people here will say. Imperial March and Asteroid Field in particular are standouts.

True. Princess Leia's Theme is also very beautiful and The little People is a personal favorite of mine. The recording is simply fantastic (the percussion is sometimes too loud, but hey!). The only problem is that sometimes you get the feeling that everyone is concentrating too hard on their own individual parts. I believe this is very reason why some people feel the album lacks "enthusiasm".

Alex

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

I used to think the recording sucked, because it lacks clarity. It took me years to realize that there's actually a piano in The Imperial March and The Asteroid Field. It greatly improves on a good system though. Still, I wouldn't call it a great recording (though I admit I haven't listened to it in years); Summon the Heroes is several classes better in that regard.

And yes, Leia is very good as well. I think this greatly benefits from being recorded "as a concert piece" in general - both this version and the Gerhardt recording have much more of a "sweep" than the cue recorded along with the OST. And just for the record, this is one of Williams' all-time best pieces, and in it's own way is unsurpassed by anything else he's written - IM(H)O of course.

The Cantina Band rendition is pure fun,

Agreed. Though the laser blast/sound effects stuff at the end is still a mystery to me.

as is Here They Come, in my opinion.

The only bad cue on the album, if you ask me. Sure, the brass sounds much better than on the original LSO recording, but the tempo is way too slow. If I had to pick one, it would be either the OST or the Gerhardt recording.

I disagree about the Asteroid Field. I felt like it was rather dry and simply dragging in tempo, lacking any excitement.

That's odd, because even if that effect is there, it can't be as strong as with Here They Come? Anyway, I like the spacious (?) handling of Asteroid Field, it's not so much breakneck action as the OST version, but it has such a wonderful flow.

And finally, a short note on the Main Title... my one regret is that the concert version of this is the revised ESB version, with less timpani. I'd love to hear another recording of the original version.

[A24 4,333]

Still, I wouldn't call it a great recording (though I admit I haven't listened to it in years); Summon the Heroes is several classes better in that regard.

8O I consider that the worst recording in my collection! Your system must really suck, Marian!

You probably like the "remastered" Star Wars (SE) scores as well, don't you?

Alex

8O

[robthehand 3]

Empire and Jedi sound a bit rubbish, but what's wrong with the Star Wars SE?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

It took me years to realize that there's actually a piano in The Imperial March and The Asteroid Field.

I still haven't heard it. I'll have to look for it next time I listen.

[A24 4,333]

Empire and Jedi sound a bit rubbish, but what's wrong with the Star Wars SE?

You still don't know after so many negative reports?

[King Mark 3,631]

I like the brass sounding that way on Star Wars.

It sounds like that on Raiders too

K.m.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I like the brass sounding that way on Star Wars.  

+1. I wish Ep I - III had that sound, especially III. Kick ass!

[A24 4,333]

I like the brass sounding that way on Star Wars.  

+1. I wish Ep I - III had that sound, especially III. Kick ass!

That's easy, turn your treble (10 kHz) all the way up!

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

That's easy, turn your treble (10 kHz) all the way up!

HAHAHA that's so funny that you said that!! Literally right after I put up my post, I tried that -- more like at 4Khz though. Funny that you mention that....

Speaking of which, for a while now I've been trying to figure out a way to get I, II, and III to sound more like IV and V. I'm thinking of scanning to see what frequencies the horns take up, then slightly distorting those frequencies in Pro Tools. Anyone tried that?

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Still, I wouldn't call it a great recording (though I admit I haven't listened to it in years); Summon the Heroes is several classes better in that regard.

I consider that the worst recording in my collection! Your system must really suck, Marian!

It's one of Murphy's best recordings. The brass has massive power, there's a lot of fine bass (without the droning Murphy often produced in the last 15 years - which makes Seven Years in Tibet really hard to listen to for me), and you can actually hear the air in the hall for several seconds after a tutti.

You probably like the "remastered" Star Wars (SE) scores as well, don't you?  

I think I was among the first to start the chronic complaining about those on this board. And Superman. I still wish someone could make them sound like the remastered CE3K.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I like this disc a bit less now, but I still like it.

Burga - who paid USD2 for it.

[A24 4,333]

I like this disc a bit less now, but I still like it.

Believe it or not but today it's the only disc that lets me relive those original, wonderous Star Wars moments and it's something the Special Editions cannot do.

Alex

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Marian and I seem to have our ears tuned the same, Summon the Heroes is indeed an awesome recording.

The spectrum for the sound is pretty similar to the Last Crusade, which I find to be one of the worst recordings ever, but it really works well with Summon the Heroes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I like this disc a bit less now, but I still like it.

Believe it or not but today it's the only disc that lets me relive those original, wonderous Star Wars moments and it's something the Special Editions cannot do.

Alex

Did the original 2 LP TESB set come in yet?

[A24 4,333]

Did the original 2 LP TESB set come in yet?

Nah, I lost the bid. Somebody wanted it more than I did.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Marian and I seem to have our ears tuned the same, Summon the Heroes is indeed an awesome recording.

I recently listened to it.

Didn't particulary care for the recording, rather unfocused and bland.

[A24 4,333]

Didn't particulary care for the recording, rather unfocused and bland.

... and Boston Poppish. Lost of bright reverb added.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Probably an attempt to mask their flimsy brass section and rather rigid strings.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I just got this in the mail and I absolutely LOVE the cantina band. WOW! Dare I mention, better than the original?

[Quintus 5,399]

Dare you may. I've always prefered their rendition to the original. Although the original version does suit the film itself better.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

:roll:

[King Mark 3,631]

I lkie the original cantina band better.

K.M.

[Indiana_Fett 0]

I lkie the original cantina band better.

K.M.

Agreed.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Dare you may. I've always prefered their rendition to the original. Although the original version does suit the film itself better.

Agreed.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

I just got this in the mail and I absolutely LOVE the cantina band.  WOW!  Dare I mention, better than the original?

I like it a lot, but I prefer the original for its superior 'feel'.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

Anyone else not impressed by GL's quest to get a studio that sounds like a cathedral? There's way too much reverb there, and it sounds like a cheesey digital workstation plugin.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Not if it's recorded well. All of the old Karajan DG recordings were recorded at the Jesus Christus Kirche in Berlin, and while they sound more distant than a nice, modern-day concert hall recording, they mostly sound very good for what they are (and in many cases the "feel" is exactly right). Marco Polo's excellent Captain Blood recording was recoded in the same location. And that's pretty much the right sound for Star Wars - and as far as I remember, the reverb the scores have in the actual films (not the ultra-dry SE CDs) is quite similar to that.

[Genius_Gone_Insane 5]

I A-B'd 'here they come' (skywalker) with 'ben's death and fighter attack' (ost) and the verb is more prominant in the skywalker version. not in a good way imo

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Well, for one thing, that's the only "bad" cue on the Skywalker album in my opinion, as I said above. And also, the albums sound much drier than the movies do as far as I remember, and they don't sound good, partly for that reason. They sound like a claustrophobic version of space.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Added reverb is definatly not the way to go on Star Wars music.

[A24 4,333]

Jesus, Marian! There's more reverb on Skywalker than on the original Star Wars. In all cases this version comes the closest to the silk sound of the original LP releases, before it sadly went deteriorated (see Polydor CD, Trilogy, SE and Sony).

Marian, what speakers do you listen to?

Alex - who rather likes the sound of Jesus Marian.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Jesus, Marian! There's more reverb on Skywalker than on the original Star Wars.

That's what I said.

In all cases this version comes the closest to the silk sound of the original LP releases, before it sadly went deteriorated (see Polydor CD, Trilogy, SE and Sony).

That's what I said I assume.

And that's why I said that the SEs sound dry and claustrophobic.

Marian, what speakers do you listen to?

A Tannoy Mercury set.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I find the issue of this CD's soundquality not nearly as interesting as the performance quality.

[A24 4,333]

This CD (Skywalker Symphony) boasted having the best sound quality of any Star Wars release to date, and it comes close to that promise. - Filmtracks

That's better!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Clemmensen must have started to lose his hearing at the same time Shawn Murphy did.

[A24 4,333]

If you could hear it on my speakers, Stefancos, you would squeak differently.