#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I can't take anyone who is willing to ignore the Jaws Theme seriously! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 E.T. is not a march. Supes, yes, but that's just a small element of the total score.BTW, Jaws ain't no marching band either. What a petty response. It's obvious Ross was talking about scores propelled by 'showy' themes, and not specifically marches.What you call "showy", I call "strong". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elmo Lewis 6 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Alex, you... disappoint me.Is Empire of the Sun not a brilliant score even though it lacks a "strong" theme like "The Raiders March"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Alex is 100% right.Something is wrong here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 I kinda like zimmer.You know, that just renders your 'factual' opinions nule... 8O By the way I find AI to be as (or even more) emotional than ET, and the 1st time Chairman's waltz is played in the movie, i have that sadness sore throat feeling the whole scene until chio spens the money on prayer. The finale of Schindler's List goes also into there.Williams still can write as emotionally powerful music as like the did in the pastI was joking Luke, cant you tell a sarcasm when you here it. Said Lucy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Alex is 100% right.Something is wrong here? You're right- Ross is making the sounder point, and you think Alex is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 We'll leave the notable exception of the Jaws theme aside because it really doesn't help either side of argument.sure it does, its one of the most brilliant uses of music in cinema history, 2 notes, so everyone thinks its simple,and he would do it again two years later with 5 notes, though few consider Close Encounters simple.I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Not memorable on a global scale, no, but I do know that many, many, many in the film score community will never forget the 10 notes of Sayuri's theme, among several others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyKW 0 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I love his 70's works dearly (especially his incredible run from Jaws in 1975 to ET in 1982) for their energy, their bombast and the instantlyidentifiable themes, but I think he's become far more subtle and sophisticated since the late 1980s. His writing and his handling of themes has become increasingly complex and although it may not provide the instant gratification of his earlier works, it's far more satisfying. Just compareRaiders to Last Crusade. It's incredible that he's still producing so much work of such high quality. I think he's still one of the most under-ratedtalents in film music today. Once his oeuvre is complete and we have a chance to go back and really appreciate his latter works, I think we'llreally begin to appreciate his profound talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Is Empire of the Sun not a brilliant score even though it lacks a "strong" theme like "The Raiders March"?I can sing this score by heart. Very strong themes. Yesterday:- Close Encounters, again another strong theme. Interesting harmony is spread all over the album.Today:- War Of The Worlds ... eh ... no character! In the end this music is all very interchangable. If I put WOTW under a documentary nobody will notice it. Why? It has no face. It's wallpaper. (Perhaps I'm biased, I hate the film)Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable.Except for the Star Wars main theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 We'll leave the notable exception of the Jaws theme aside because it really doesn't help either side of argument.sure it does, its one of the most brilliant uses of music in cinema history, 2 notes, so everyone thinks its simple,and he would do it again two years later with 5 notes, though few consider Close Encounters simple.I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable.But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper? Isn't it just in the finale? (I'm considering Wild Signals source music, since it's part of the diegetic sound) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Is Empire of the Sun not a brilliant score even though it lacks a "strong" theme like "The Raiders March"?I can sing this score by heart. Very strong themes. I can sing the scores to all three Potter films by heart (all three non-crappy Potter films, that is). Very strong themes. Same difference. Yesterday:- Close Encounters, again another strong theme. Interesting harmony is spread all over the album.Today:- War Of The Worlds ... eh ... no character! In the end this music is all very interchangable. If I put WOTW under a documentary nobody will notice it. Why? It has no face. It's wallpaper. (Perhaps I'm biased, I hate the film) War of the Worlds has plenty of character. The fact that it's often interchangable doesn't impact on that. The character is of harsh dissonance and rage, but still, plenty of character.But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper? Isn't it just in the finale? (I'm considering Wild Signals source music, since it's part of the diegetic sound) I think that is not exactly relevant, the point is the the five notes are iconic and more widely recognized than the film itself is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Not memorable on a global scale, no, but I do know that many, many, many in the film score community will never forget the 10 notes of Sayuri's theme, among several others.I don't, maybe if it were pings and dings, but otherwise its a nice score, but nothing compared to JW's best, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper? Isn't it just in the finale? (I'm considering Wild Signals source music, since it's part of the diegetic sound) I think that is not exactly relevant, the point is the the five notes are iconic and more widely recognized than the film itself is.That is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Not memorable on a global scale, no, but I do know that many, many, many in the film score community will never forget the 10 notes of Sayuri's theme, among several others.I don't, maybe if it were pings and dings, but otherwise its a nice score, but nothing compared to JW's best, You're absolutely right, it's not overly showy. It's perfect and moving and emotional, but it's not showy, so it can't be good. If only it were pings and dings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 its not worthy of discussion among the JW greats, most here wouldn't rank it among his twenty best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Hmmmmreally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper?The 5-note theme is supposed to be real and not film music. The effect it has would be lost if we heard it in the score all the time. It's only when the story comes to a conclusion that the score adopts and celebrates the 5-note theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Yes. That's my point, actually.The score isn't built entirely around those 5 notes.Of course the movie is, but that's something else... 8O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 its not worthy of discussion among the JW greats, most here wouldn't rank it among his twenty best. It's about 9 months old. Give it some time. If it's any judge, it's without a doubt the most talked about score of 2005, not counting rejected/replacement/Santoallala scores (and the last of the three was often talked about in context of MoaG). And anticipating your next response, on how the classic JW scores didn't need time to become classics, I'll simply observe that quiet (i.e. not overly showy) scores, are rarely if ever instant classics (at least not in the way you mean). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Morlock, it took you years to realize that The Game isn't a masterpiece after all. How many years is it going to take before you wise up and understand that War Of The Worlds is merely interchangeble wallpaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Miguel, this is an internet forum for discussion, we have no new JW scores this year to discuss, not eveyone gets caught up in the last couple of dramatic scores he's created, so I made this thread to create discussion. Don't be so provincial in your thinking that I don't understand that kind of emotionality, I've lived enough of life to understand there are all kinds of emotions, but John's emotional music, the one we commonly discuss, the kind that tugs the heart strings, we don't see much in John's works. No score does compare to ET when it comes to those emotions, not even Schindler's List. There are no central figures in SL that we can focus on and relate to that create those emotions, like we can relate to in the character of Elliott. No Joe, you made a thread to say how good your favourite scores are.And I apologise for being so provincial, but I remain in saying that you fail to understand the kind of mature emotional impact of contemporary Williams music.Further more, I apologise you for messing up your perfect idea, and surelly I'm just dumb wrong and Williams as turned into an hack this later years.But when you do understand that what you like more is not necessarily better, then we will talk again.And trust me, I'm not sugesting that Williams recent output is better. I'm just saying that it isn't worst. 8O Williams' Daddy's Gone A-Hunting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 22, 2006 Author Share Posted August 22, 2006 Hmmmmreally?really, if they did it would be towards the bottom of the twenty.Memoirs, which btw is in my car so I can listen too it about every 3rd day, is not as good asImages,Towering InfernoJawsStar WarsClose EncountersSuperman Jaws 2,The FuryThe Empire Strikes BackRaiders of the Lost ArkE.T. The ExtraterrestrialMonsignorThe RiverTemple of DoomWitches of EastwickHome AloneJurassic ParkSchindlers ListHarry Potter and the Socerer's StoneCatch Me If You CanPrisoner of Azkabanand everyone of these scores was an Oscar Nominee too, notice I did leave some off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted August 22, 2006 Share Posted August 22, 2006 Morlock, it took you years to realize that The Game isn't a masterpiece after all. How many years is it going to take before you wise up and understand that War Of The Worlds is merely interchangeble wallpaper? I never thought The Game was a masterpiece, and it took me precisely one repeated viewing to discern that it was not nearly as good or as interesting as I remembered it being the first time, several years ago. And War of The Worlds being largely interchangeble is besides the point. The rage is there, and the score works in every scene it's in. Whether it is interchangeble (and it is, in a general sense), is immaterial. JW's job is to serve the film dramatically, and he succeeds at that on a scene by scene basis as well as overall. The fact that to a lot of people it all sounds the same on the CD is quite irrelelvant to it being a good film score. And it being wallpaper is very arguable indeed, I suspect to you it is wallpaper because of your dislike for the film. For me, I felt the score preset at all times, and as an organic part of the film, not as wallpaper (But, then again, I also feel the same way about Elfman's Mission:Impossible score, a score which Elfman himself classified as expensive wallpaper). 'Allergic Reaction' from The Secret of NIMH by Jerry Goldsmith (apparantly channelling S. Prokofiev) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Jurassic Parkand everyone of these scores was an Oscar Nominee tooSadly, it was not (but thank god SL won...)And heck joe, how can i understand your sarcasm?You say so extreme things and some of them are true and others dont, im starting to have problems discerning between good and evil! For example, you said this zimmer things as seriously as you said Zorro was your fav score from 2005.How can i know which is the fake comment? I need hints, use some smilies, please.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morlock 11 Posted August 23, 2006 Share Posted August 23, 2006 Well, Zorro was a good score...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeshopk 8 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 The Williams concert in Tanglewood ended with music from Star Wars 4, 5 and 6. I have to say that everything else on the program was more enjoyable and interesting to see live, and most of it was recent stuff except Close Encounters. And Close Encounters is the only older score that really fits with his newer work, so it melded incredibly with WOTW. The old Star Wars stuff sounded unoriginal in comparison to the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted August 24, 2006 Author Share Posted August 24, 2006 Jurassic Parkand everyone of these scores was an Oscar Nominee tooSadly, it was not (but thank god SL won...)And heck joe, how can i understand your sarcasm?You say so extreme things and some of them are true and others dont, im starting to have problems discerning between good and evil! For example, you said this zimmer things as seriously as you said Zorro was your fav score from 2005.How can i know which is the fake comment? I need hints, use some smilies, please.... yes Luke, I was wrong about that, sad that JP didn't get nominated, when SL, a lesser work did.as for recognizing my sarcasm, you're going to have to figure that out on your own, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,338 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 No, Joe. Any film composer could've scored Jurassic Park but not many could've written a successful yet widely respected score to a sensitive and delicate subject as Schindler's List. If Spielberg or Williams would've hit one wrong note, the film would've fallen flat on its face. These accomplishments are simply astonishing and therefore Williams was righteously awarded. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Breathmask 555 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I agree with Mr. Cremers on the SL part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Mee too.: music : Bach Brandebug Concert nº. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miz 139 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 We'll leave the notable exception of the Jaws theme aside because it really doesn't help either side of argument.sure it does, its one of the most brilliant uses of music in cinema history, 2 notes, so everyone thinks its simple,and he would do it again two years later with 5 notes, though few consider Close Encounters simple.I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable.To make a value judgement on the scores alone based on the main themes' salience in public conciousness is absurd. The films he scored in the 70s and 80s were utterly iconic - yes, his music played a large part in that, but few people other than us seperate the music from the film so...enthusiastically.None of his 90s/00s scores will be 'remembered' by the public unless they have a notable main theme and are memorable films. I believe the only two that fit the criteria are Jurassic Park and Schindler's List. Saving Private Ryan will be remembered as a landmark war film, but since the music did not play a part in its iconic status it could never be considered 'superior' to the adventure scores of 25 years ago.I find the comparison between A.I. and E.T. interesting. I think the music for both is equally beautiful and emotional, but in different ways. Neither is superior (but, of course, E.T. will always be remembered).That John Williams has been scoring films that the public do not latch onto as readily as those films of the 70s and 80s does not make their scores inferior.- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Williams' Daddy's Gone A-HuntingWhaaaa? How??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Williams' Daddy's Gone A-HuntingWhaaaa? How???How? But that's very easy! You just have to look in the right places.Now, many times, this boards ain't the right place. There are many serious collectors that aren't interested in being around here -- one can only wonder why...For the record, the title song, with lyrics by Dori Previn was comercially released -- a 45 rpm was released at the time of the film. And two segments of the score ahve been floating around among collectors for years now: The opening sequence, which also features the song, and the love theme.The song, both on-sceen and on the single was performed by Lyn Roman, and has a somewhat James Bond feel to it. Williams The Lost World Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Now, many times, this boards ain't the right place. There are many serious collectors that aren't interested in being around here -- one can only wonder why...There are Williams fans more snobbist then Alexcremers?Who are these people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Snob, not at all! They don't have the time or pacience to put up to some things. Some of you know this guys, some have been around here for some time and left...I can tell you that the greatest Williams collector I know is the kindest and nicest person, and don't comes around this place. Bernstein: Missa Brevis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I can tell you that the greatest Williams collector I know is the kindest and nicest person, and don't comes around this place.I'm sure Ricard still drops by and reads a few posts from time to time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Miguel is right, I have a few friends who are big Williams fans who avoid message boards and can't stand them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Please convey your friends my utter disregard and lack of interest the next time you see them, taking your order in a McDonalds! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ollie 1,059 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Sorry Stefancos they're all grown up and making real money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 If Spielberg or Williams would've hit one wrong note, the film would've fallen flat on its face. 'Schindler's List' actually did that (falling flat on it's face) in the 'I could have done more'-sequence...and largely through the helping hands of Williams syrupy scoring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robthehand 3 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 If Spielberg or Williams would've hit one wrong note, the film would've fallen flat on its face. 'Schindler's List' actually did that (falling flat on it's face) in the 'I could have done more'-sequence...and largely through the helping hands of Williams syrupy scoring.I think it does fall flat in a few places, but not because of Williams - I just feel that occasionally it tries a bit too hard and obviously to be upsetting or emotional - the subtler parts are far more effective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Sorry Stefancos they're all grown up and making real money.Those rich fucks...this whole fucking thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I can tell you that the greatest Williams collector I know is the kindest and nicest person, and don't comes around this place.I'm sure Ricard still drops by and reads a few posts from time to time.Who talked about Ricard? It's not Ricard. Bernstein's Chichester psalms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 So you don't think Ricard is a kind and nice person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miguel Andrade 1,263 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Of course he is, and we talk every now and then. I'm just saying that there are Williams fans that can't stand this place -- the message board, not the main site -- and are greater experts in all that concerns John Williams than most people here. Count Baise & Ella Fitzgerald: A Perfect Match Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,795 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 as for recognizing my sarcasm, you're going to have to figure that out on your own,Ow. Well i suppose that was not sarcasm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 yes Luke, I was wrong about that, sad that JP didn't get nominated, when SL, a lesser work did.You never cease to surprise me with your opinions, Joe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pixie_twinkle 48 Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Miguel, you have a very eclectic taste in music. It's impossible to predict what you will be listening to every time you post a response. Chichester Psalms is a great piece! LaMu Ragashu! LaMu Ragashu Goyim! (Or however it's spelled! I sang it once when I was 15 and I've never forgotten the words, only how to spell them).Looks like I need to get on the trading board sometime soon. I'm sure I have something to interest you in return Miguel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now