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Why the 70's & 80's R clearly superior to the 90's &


JoeinAR
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E.T. is not a march. Supes, yes, but that's just a small element of the total score.

BTW, Jaws ain't no marching band either.

What a petty response. It's obvious Ross was talking about scores propelled by 'showy' themes, and not specifically marches.

What you call "showy", I call "strong".

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I kinda like zimmer.

You know, that just renders your 'factual' opinions nule... 8O

By the way I find AI to be as (or even more) emotional than ET, and the 1st time Chairman's waltz is played in the movie, i have that sadness sore throat feeling the whole scene until chio spens the money on prayer. The finale of Schindler's List goes also into there.

Williams still can write as emotionally powerful music as like the did in the past

I was joking Luke, cant you tell a sarcasm when you here it. Said Lucy

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Alex is 100% right.

Something is wrong here?

You're right- Ross is making the sounder point, and you think Alex is right.

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We'll leave the notable exception of the Jaws theme aside because it really doesn't help either side of argument.

sure it does, its one of the most brilliant uses of music in cinema history, 2 notes, so everyone thinks its simple,

and he would do it again two years later with 5 notes, though few consider Close Encounters simple.

I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable.

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Not memorable on a global scale, no, but I do know that many, many, many in the film score community will never forget the 10 notes of Sayuri's theme, among several others.

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I love his 70's works dearly (especially his incredible run from Jaws in 1975 to ET in 1982) for their energy, their bombast and the instantly

identifiable themes, but I think he's become far more subtle and sophisticated since the late 1980s. His writing and his handling of themes has

become increasingly complex and although it may not provide the instant gratification of his earlier works, it's far more satisfying. Just compare

Raiders to Last Crusade. It's incredible that he's still producing so much work of such high quality. I think he's still one of the most under-rated

talents in film music today. Once his oeuvre is complete and we have a chance to go back and really appreciate his latter works, I think we'll

really begin to appreciate his profound talent.

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Is Empire of the Sun not a brilliant score even though it lacks a "strong" theme like "The Raiders March"?

I can sing this score by heart. Very strong themes.

Yesterday:

- Close Encounters, again another strong theme. Interesting harmony is spread all over the album.

Today:

- War Of The Worlds ... eh ... no character! In the end this music is all very interchangable. If I put WOTW under a documentary nobody will notice it. Why? It has no face. It's wallpaper. (Perhaps I'm biased, I hate the film)

Alex

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I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable.

Except for the Star Wars main theme.

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We'll leave the notable exception of the Jaws theme aside because it really doesn't help either side of argument.

sure it does, its one of the most brilliant uses of music in cinema history, 2 notes, so everyone thinks its simple,

and he would do it again two years later with 5 notes, though few consider Close Encounters simple.

I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable.

But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper? Isn't it just in the finale? (I'm considering Wild Signals source music, since it's part of the diegetic sound)

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Is Empire of the Sun not a brilliant score even though it lacks a "strong" theme like "The Raiders March"?

I can sing this score by heart. Very strong themes.

I can sing the scores to all three Potter films by heart (all three non-crappy Potter films, that is). Very strong themes. Same difference.

Yesterday:

- Close Encounters, again another strong theme. Interesting harmony is spread all over the album.

Today:

- War Of The Worlds ... eh ... no character! In the end this music is all very interchangable.  If I put WOTW under a documentary nobody will notice it. Why? It has no face. It's wallpaper. (Perhaps I'm biased, I hate the film)

War of the Worlds has plenty of character. The fact that it's often interchangable doesn't impact on that. The character is of harsh dissonance and rage, but still, plenty of character.

But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper? Isn't it just in the finale? (I'm considering Wild Signals source music, since it's part of the diegetic sound)

I think that is not exactly relevant, the point is the the five notes are iconic and more widely recognized than the film itself is.

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Not memorable on a global scale, no, but I do know that many, many, many in the film score community will never forget the 10 notes of Sayuri's theme, among several others.

I don't, maybe if it were pings and dings, but otherwise its a nice score, but nothing compared to JW's best,

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But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper? Isn't it just in the finale? (I'm considering Wild Signals source music, since it's part of the diegetic sound)

I think that is not exactly relevant, the point is the the five notes are iconic and more widely recognized than the film itself is.

That is true.

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Not memorable on a global scale, no, but I do know that many, many, many in the film score community will never forget the 10 notes of Sayuri's theme, among several others.

I don't, maybe if it were pings and dings, but otherwise its a nice score, but nothing compared to JW's best,

You're absolutely right, it's not overly showy. It's perfect and moving and emotional, but it's not showy, so it can't be good. If only it were pings and dings.

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its not worthy of discussion among the JW greats, most here wouldn't rank it among his twenty best.

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But how many times is the five-note motif really used in the score proper?

The 5-note theme is supposed to be real and not film music. The effect it has would be lost if we heard it in the score all the time. It's only when the story comes to a conclusion that the score adopts and celebrates the 5-note theme.

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its not worthy of discussion among the JW greats, most here wouldn't rank it among his twenty best.

It's about 9 months old. Give it some time. If it's any judge, it's without a doubt the most talked about score of 2005, not counting rejected/replacement/Santoallala scores (and the last of the three was often talked about in context of MoaG). And anticipating your next response, on how the classic JW scores didn't need time to become classics, I'll simply observe that quiet (i.e. not overly showy) scores, are rarely if ever instant classics (at least not in the way you mean).

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Morlock, it took you years to realize that The Game isn't a masterpiece after all. How many years is it going to take before you wise up and understand that War Of The Worlds is merely interchangeble wallpaper?

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Miguel, this is an internet forum for discussion, we have no new JW scores this year to discuss, not eveyone gets caught up in the last couple of dramatic scores he's created, so I made this thread to create discussion. Don't be so provincial in your thinking that I don't understand that kind of emotionality, I've lived enough of life to understand there are all kinds of emotions, but John's emotional music, the one we commonly discuss, the kind that tugs the heart strings, we don't see much in John's works. No score does compare to ET when it comes to those emotions, not even Schindler's List. There are no central figures in SL that we can focus on and relate to that create those emotions, like we can relate to in the character of Elliott.  

No Joe, you made a thread to say how good your favourite scores are.

And I apologise for being so provincial, but I remain in saying that you fail to understand the kind of mature emotional impact of contemporary Williams music.

Further more, I apologise you for messing up your perfect idea, and surelly I'm just dumb wrong and Williams as turned into an hack this later years.

But when you do understand that what you like more is not necessarily better, then we will talk again.

And trust me, I'm not sugesting that Williams recent output is better. I'm just saying that it isn't worst.

8O Williams' Daddy's Gone A-Hunting

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Hmmmmreally?

really, if they did it would be towards the bottom of the twenty.

Memoirs, which btw is in my car so I can listen too it about every 3rd day, is not as good as

Images,

Towering Inferno

Jaws

Star Wars

Close Encounters

Superman

Jaws 2,

The Fury

The Empire Strikes Back

Raiders of the Lost Ark

E.T. The Extraterrestrial

Monsignor

The River

Temple of Doom

Witches of Eastwick

Home Alone

Jurassic Park

Schindlers List

Harry Potter and the Socerer's Stone

Catch Me If You Can

Prisoner of Azkaban

and everyone of these scores was an Oscar Nominee too, notice I did leave some off.

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Morlock, it took you years to realize that The Game isn't a masterpiece after all. How many years is it going to take before you wise up and understand that War Of The Worlds is merely interchangeble wallpaper?

I never thought The Game was a masterpiece, and it took me precisely one repeated viewing to discern that it was not nearly as good or as interesting as I remembered it being the first time, several years ago.

And War of The Worlds being largely interchangeble is besides the point. The rage is there, and the score works in every scene it's in. Whether it is interchangeble (and it is, in a general sense), is immaterial. JW's job is to serve the film dramatically, and he succeeds at that on a scene by scene basis as well as overall. The fact that to a lot of people it all sounds the same on the CD is quite irrelelvant to it being a good film score.

And it being wallpaper is very arguable indeed, I suspect to you it is wallpaper because of your dislike for the film. For me, I felt the score preset at all times, and as an organic part of the film, not as wallpaper (But, then again, I also feel the same way about Elfman's Mission:Impossible score, a score which Elfman himself classified as expensive wallpaper).

:music: 'Allergic Reaction' from The Secret of NIMH by Jerry Goldsmith (apparantly channelling S. Prokofiev)

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Jurassic Park

and everyone of these scores was an Oscar Nominee too

Sadly, it was not :( (but thank god SL won...)

And heck joe, how can i understand your sarcasm?

You say so extreme things and some of them are true and others dont, im starting to have problems discerning between good and evil!

For example, you said this zimmer things as seriously as you said Zorro was your fav score from 2005.

How can i know which is the fake comment? I need hints, use some smilies, please.... :P;);)

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The Williams concert in Tanglewood ended with music from Star Wars 4, 5 and 6. I have to say that everything else on the program was more enjoyable and interesting to see live, and most of it was recent stuff except Close Encounters. And Close Encounters is the only older score that really fits with his newer work, so it melded incredibly with WOTW. The old Star Wars stuff sounded unoriginal in comparison to the rest.

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Jurassic Park

and everyone of these scores was an Oscar Nominee too

Sadly, it was not :| (but thank god SL won...)

And heck joe, how can i understand your sarcasm?

You say so extreme things and some of them are true and others dont, im starting to have problems discerning between good and evil!

For example, you said this zimmer things as seriously as you said Zorro was your fav score from 2005.

How can i know which is the fake comment? I need hints, use some smilies, please.... :P;):)

yes Luke, I was wrong about that, sad that JP didn't get nominated, when SL, a lesser work did.

as for recognizing my sarcasm, you're going to have to figure that out on your own,

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No, Joe. Any film composer could've scored Jurassic Park but not many could've written a successful yet widely respected score to a sensitive and delicate subject as Schindler's List. If Spielberg or Williams would've hit one wrong note, the film would've fallen flat on its face. These accomplishments are simply astonishing and therefore Williams was righteously awarded.

Alex

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We'll leave the notable exception of the Jaws theme aside because it really doesn't help either side of argument.

sure it does, its one of the most brilliant uses of music in cinema history, 2 notes, so everyone thinks its simple,

and he would do it again two years later with 5 notes, though few consider Close Encounters simple.

I don't think in 30 years anything he's done today with the exception of the Potter themes will be so memorable.

To make a value judgement on the scores alone based on the main themes' salience in public conciousness is absurd. The films he scored in the 70s and 80s were utterly iconic - yes, his music played a large part in that, but few people other than us seperate the music from the film so...enthusiastically.

None of his 90s/00s scores will be 'remembered' by the public unless they have a notable main theme and are memorable films. I believe the only two that fit the criteria are Jurassic Park and Schindler's List. Saving Private Ryan will be remembered as a landmark war film, but since the music did not play a part in its iconic status it could never be considered 'superior' to the adventure scores of 25 years ago.

I find the comparison between A.I. and E.T. interesting. I think the music for both is equally beautiful and emotional, but in different ways. Neither is superior (but, of course, E.T. will always be remembered).

That John Williams has been scoring films that the public do not latch onto as readily as those films of the 70s and 80s does not make their scores inferior.-

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:) Williams' Daddy's Gone A-Hunting

Whaaaa? How???

How? But that's very easy! You just have to look in the right places.

Now, many times, this boards ain't the right place. There are many serious collectors that aren't interested in being around here -- one can only wonder why...

For the record, the title song, with lyrics by Dori Previn was comercially released -- a 45 rpm was released at the time of the film. And two segments of the score ahve been floating around among collectors for years now: The opening sequence, which also features the song, and the love theme.

The song, both on-sceen and on the single was performed by Lyn Roman, and has a somewhat James Bond feel to it.

:music: Williams The Lost World

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Now, many times, this boards ain't the right place. There are many serious collectors that aren't interested in being around here -- one can only wonder why...

There are Williams fans more snobbist then Alexcremers?

Who are these people?

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Snob, not at all! They don't have the time or pacience to put up to some things. Some of you know this guys, some have been around here for some time and left...

I can tell you that the greatest Williams collector I know is the kindest and nicest person, and don't comes around this place.

:) Bernstein: Missa Brevis

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If Spielberg or Williams would've hit one wrong note, the film would've fallen flat on its face.

'Schindler's List' actually did that (falling flat on it's face) in the 'I could have done more'-sequence...and largely through the helping hands of Williams syrupy scoring.

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If Spielberg or Williams would've hit one wrong note, the film would've fallen flat on its face.

'Schindler's List' actually did that (falling flat on it's face) in the 'I could have done more'-sequence...and largely through the helping hands of Williams syrupy scoring.

I think it does fall flat in a few places, but not because of Williams - I just feel that occasionally it tries a bit too hard and obviously to be upsetting or emotional - the subtler parts are far more effective.

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I can tell you that the greatest Williams collector I know is the kindest and nicest person, and don't comes around this place.

I'm sure Ricard still drops by and reads a few posts from time to time.

Who talked about Ricard? It's not Ricard.

:music: Bernstein's Chichester psalms

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Of course he is, and we talk every now and then.

I'm just saying that there are Williams fans that can't stand this place -- the message board, not the main site -- and are greater experts in all that concerns John Williams than most people here.

:music: Count Baise & Ella Fitzgerald: A Perfect Match

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yes Luke, I was wrong about that, sad that JP didn't get nominated, when SL, a lesser work did.

You never cease to surprise me with your opinions, Joe.

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Miguel, you have a very eclectic taste in music. It's impossible to predict what you will be listening to every time you post a response. Chichester Psalms is a great piece! LaMu Ragashu! LaMu Ragashu Goyim! (Or however it's spelled! I sang it once when I was 15 and I've never forgotten the words, only how to spell them).

Looks like I need to get on the trading board sometime soon. I'm sure I have something to interest you in return Miguel!

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