Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 The biggest problem I have with the design is the hook. Remove that, and he would be a half-decent orc.And yeah, it's cool to have him bare chest and all to distinguish him from other orcs, but that just participates in making his design feel a bit bland. I'm sure there would have been other ways to make him memorable without having to resort to such a "cheap trick", so to speak.PJ has never been above cheap tricks when it comes to designs. Witch-King's mace/flail, Gothmog, Shelob etc. Always something a bit over the top. I still remember one of the designers describing how PJ took a chunk of plasticine and slapped that on the original Gothmog design to make him look more like the Elephant man. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,540 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 True, but cheap tricks work better when they're practical effects and not CG!And what's wrong with Shelob? We barely see her face during the sequence, anyway, if that's what you're referring to. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 True, but cheap tricks work better when they're practical effects and not CG!And what's wrong with Shelob? We barely see her face during the sequence, anyway, if that's what you're referring to.Yes I too preferred the masks and prosthetics over the entirely CGI orcs. I thought the masks and make up were particularly impressive in LotR for those monsters.With Shelob I just didn't like the whole Tunnel Web design on the creature. I would have preferred something more demonic and supernatural. But PJ loves his boils, pustules and scar tissue, scabs and gangrene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 My Goodness... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1vwsOsI5Cw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 391 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well there are major music changes alright...guess this is what Doug meant by 'wait and see'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 That was an abomination! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 That was an abomination! What do you mean by that?Do you mean "I am shocked and very disappointed"?Or "That is a exaggerated way of highlighting the difference between the music of Dwarves (Misty Mountains Song, Man In The Moon, Blunt The Knives) and Orcs"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 That was an abomination! What do you mean by that?Do you mean "I am shocked and very disappointed"?Or "That is a exaggerated way of highlighting the difference between the music of Dwarves (Misty Mountains Song, Man In The Moon, Blunt The Knives) and Orcs"?I guess I wasn't expecting them to waste and extend the film's running time with such pointless trite as that song.Oh and yes the song is very Orcish, which means bad but they obviously wanted to give the Great Goblin his place in the musical spotlight. Doesn't change the fact that I felt rather pained to watch that contrivance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I guess I wasn't expecting them to waste and extend the film's running time with such pointless trite as that song.Technically they didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I guess I wasn't expecting them to waste and extend the film's running time with such pointless trite as that song.Technically they didn't Come again? Perhaps I am being a bit obtuse today but isn't that extra minute or two going to be in the EE? Not only does it add to the running time but wastes those extra minutes on rather pointless details as a ungainly song number. The Dwarven bits after were relatively good though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I mean it was only in the EE, so technically its not in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Some things should be left on the cutting room floor. The dandy show host Great Goblin is one of PJs less succesful creations. Nori's little pilferings from Rivendell were quite a funny bit. I am all for adding depth to the dwarven characters. Hopefully Bombur has a line or two in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F96ojmLYcZQ#t=22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F96ojmLYcZQ#t=22The dwarves have now added depth. They are even more ill-mannered and boorish oafs than in the TE. So much for the proud heritage of Durin's line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Seems like alot of the stuff cut is the more lighthearted stuff and character moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Seems like alot of the stuff cut is the more lighthearted stuff and character moments.Yes. My advice would have been to keep the character moments and leave out the awkward humour. Gimli seems like the height of decorum compared to Thorin's company now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well, we know that Jackson puts things back in that he finds "fun" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well, we know that Jackson puts things back in that he finds "fun"Indeed. Though his "fun" was better back in the days of FotR EE I have to admit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So I'm guessing those are clips from the EE? It's probably out in Australia now? My question is for those tempted enough to watch them, any new Shore music we haven't heard before?Nope. No new music outiside the songs.The Bilbo and the shards of Narsil scene unfolds with the material from the SE version of the White Council as suspected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So I'm guessing those are clips from the EE? It's probably out in Australia now? My question is for those tempted enough to watch them, any new Shore music we haven't heard before?Only a few extra bits of the Rivendell source music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Ah just seen in anther thread, bilbos theme!!!!!!!its tracked!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Ah just seen in anther thread, bilbos theme!!!!!!!its tracked!!!!!!!!So it is!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 391 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 SafeUnderhill - it's just the Took part, and it's tracked from Axe or Sword (it's definitely not from White Council anyway). And it plays over Elrond and Lindir moaning about the bathing Dwarves for some reason. But nonetheless it was kind of nice and somewhat reassuring to hear it. Gives me hope we'll hear the full theme in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Probably because the first bit of it plays over Bilbo and Elrond, and they did not want an obvious sounding edit.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Its tracked from the film version of The Invention of Golf.It is indeed the same music copied from in the film elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No.Its Edoras/Evenstar all over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,236 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You know, I'm sure people have mixed feelings about that golf scene... but the way Gandalf says, "Yes, well he could!" is just one of the most Gandalfy things in all the films. Made me grin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Sneaky edit there TGP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,236 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Damn! Someone noticed my quote-memory deficiencies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 391 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Probably because the first bit of it plays over Bilbo and Elrond, and they did not want an obvious sounding edit....That makes sense, because whenever I tried to cue Bilbo's theme from The White Council to the scene, I always had to start earlier than when the Shire theme comes in.I love the Golf scene. Wonderful acting from McKellen. I'd love it even more if it had Bilbo's full theme playing over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No.Its Edoras/Evenstar all over again.Explain! Explain!Probably because the first bit of it plays over Bilbo and Elrond, and they did not want an obvious sounding edit....That makes sense, because whenever I tried to cue Bilbo's theme from The White Council to that, I always had to start earlier than when the Shire theme comes in.I love the Golf scene. Wonderful acting from McKellen. I'd love it even more if it had Bilbo's full theme playing over it.I just played the SE version of the opening of the White Council over the Bilbo at Rivendell scene and it works perfectly, Bilbo's themes and all.And yes the invention of golf scene itself has wonderful acting from McKellen. A charming part of the film with good writing incorporating material from the novel into the dialogue and being loyal to the character of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Evenstar was tracked over Elrond discouraging Arwen and convincing her to leave.part of Edoras was tracked into the burning of the Westfold.I meant that they probably just played the full (tracked) recording over the scene, because if they cut off the music once the scene cut to Elry and Lindy it would have sounded a bit awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Evenstar was tracked over Elrond discouraging Arwen and convincing her to leave.part of Edoras was tracked into the burning of the Westfold.I meant that they probably just played the full (tracked) recording over the scene, because if they cut off the music once the scene cut to Elry and Lindy it would have sounded a bit awkward.Indeed it might have when they tracked material in like that. Naughty, naughty PJ! A director should know better! And this shows Howard Shore knows better! If PJ had kept Bilbo's themes in the film, audience would be familiar with them by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Duh. I watched it the minute I could!Oh, you mean, the poem? whole entire extended edition? I have not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 No, but I do not think anything in it was changed... I could be wrong though! (I hope it)BTW I like Bofur's bit about going to meet relatives, somewhat like in the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke Skywalker 1,882 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 i'm bewildered. So it seems shore did not work on the EE at all?I cannot blame him anyway. I think the little good there is in the extensions is not worth the awful humour shown there.PD: are the dwarves in the fountain CGI? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 BTW I like Bofur's bit about going to meet relatives, somewhat like in the bookYeah that was taken from Thorin's original subterfuge when brought before the Great Goblin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So it seems shore did not work on the EE at all?Well, Shore definitely score MOST of the scenes before they were cut form the film, so technically, there is not anything for him to work on.PJ just has little faith in the material Shore wrote for these scenes, so he replaced them, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,765 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 So it seems shore did not work on the EE at all?Well, Shore definitely score MOST of the scenes before they were cut form the film, so technically, there is not anything for him to work on.PJ just has little faith in the material Shore wrote for these scenes, so he replaced them, sadly.And the policy of "remove all Bilbo's Themes and replace them with the Shire Theme" did the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 awful humour shown there.And what do you mean by Awful humor?The bathing? yes thats awful.The Song? thats a song from FOTR.The Elf Maiden thing? I thought it was hilarious.same with Nori's pilfering ways (I remember a TORn chat where someone thought that Ori looked like a thief.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,540 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SafeUnderHill 205 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Great Gonzales 5,817 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Duh, so he couldn't say "Oh Yeah, Shore's cue for the Arrival at Goblintown is partially replaced by the GK's song." or reveal what music on the CD corresponded to what EE scene etc.Oh and BB, this post was slightly edited in ways of expression. SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,540 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Well at least we can find out why Doug had to sign so many NDAs soon.Well, so far it seems there was nothing that justified them (apart from the reason Faleel mentioned). I don't know how much footage of the additional 13 minutes are available in these videos (I haven't watched them), but I'm sure it must be about a third of it. And still no new music! I doubt they would have bothered recording less than 10 minutes of music for the EE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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