Worst 5 Composers

[MSM 126]

I don't like his repetitiveness, his themelessness and the exchangeability of his film scores, which indicates how generalistic his sound is (e.g. the American Beauty score could have been the score for Pay it Forward and vice versa). It's a sin for a film composer.

Which ones more should I clearify?

[Henry B 50]

John Carpenter, Bill Conti, James Horner.

Of course, Horner's pretty bad nowadays, but he was amazing at the beginning.

[MSM 126]

Of course, Horner's pretty bad nowadays, but he was amazing at the beginning.

Agreed. What's more is that he doesn't write his music alone but heavily builds on his orchestrators.

[Henry B 50]

So what's your reasoning for hating on Carpenter and Conti? Their use of electric guitars?

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I don't like his repetitiveness, his themelessness and the exchangeability of his film scores, which indicates how generalistic his sound is (e.g. the American Beauty score could have been the score for Pay it Forward and vice versa). It's a sin for a film composer.

Which ones more should I clearify?

That's right - he has a fairly niche style that I've only heard other composers 'attempting' and that is absolutely perfect for certain types of film. I mean he basically invented the American Beauty sound, and in my whole collection, he's the only composer my brother can recognise blindly.

Is that a sin? Maybe he should try a few more genres, or try doing a more action oriented movie... but plenty of artists have their own unique style that is nothing but praised, and I believe Newman is no different.

[MSM 126]

So what's your reasoning for hating on Carpenter and Conti? Their use of electric guitars?

Maybe I don't hate them?

I think Carpenter's work is too often made of electronic noise, in my view (and based on what I know from him). Conti because the music doesn't fit the movies he writes for (based on what I know from him, see my earlier post in the Thomas Crown Affair thread).

I don't like his repetitiveness, his themelessness and the exchangeability of his film scores, which indicates how generalistic his sound is (e.g. the American Beauty score could have been the score for Pay it Forward and vice versa). It's a sin for a film composer.

Which ones more should I clearify?

That's right - he has a fairly niche style that I've only heard other composers 'attempting' and that is absolutely perfect for certain types of film. I mean he basically invented the American Beauty sound, and in my whole collection, he's the only composer my brother can recognise blindly.

Is that a sin? Maybe he should try a few more genres, or try doing a more action oriented movie... but plenty of artists have their own unique style that is nothing but praised, and I believe Newman is no different.

I think a good film composer should write music that is unique for the movie he writes for. It's for the same reason I don't like Zimmer (although I like some of his music).

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Thomas Newman composes some really great stuff. I know his scores have a very distinct sound and can be repetitive, but it's his style, every composer has that.

[Morlock 11]

I don't like his repetitiveness, his themelessness and the exchangeability of his film scores, which indicates how generalistic his sound is (e.g. the American Beauty score could have been the score for Pay it Forward and vice versa). It's a sin for a film composer.

Which ones more should I clearify?

You clearly know very little of Newman's work. I would strongly suggest you check more of his stuff out, he is one of the main reasons film scores as viable music continute to exist. He writes amazing themes. And American Beauty might have been okay for Pay it Forward, but it doesn't work the other way around at all. Besides, Pay it Forward is one of his least impressive scores.

Thomas Newman is easily one of the very best film composers working now, and is one of most unique, original, and best film composers ever.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Well said, Morlock.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

Absolutely. He just has a very, very low output compared to most others (I don't think he's ever done more than about 3 a year at the very most) so he isn't noticed as much.

And Pay it Forward may not be a particularly strong score, but it's perfect for the film, something Clemmenson at Filmtracks simply cannot understand. He thinks Erin Brockovich is even worse, but a proper orchestral approach would just have been completely wrong for that movie. I happen to love both, but that's just me.

MSM - go listen to The Good German, The Horse Whisperer, Finding Nemo and Angels in America - sounds like a lot, but Morlock was right, there's more to Newman than piano meanderings, much more.

[Morlock 11]

Speaking of themes- Oscar & Lucinda has one of the best themes I've ever heard, Little Woman is brimming with melody, Good German has a terrific love theme, Angels in America has idas up the wazoo, Shawshank Redemption has a powerful theme, Meet Joe Black has a fantastic theme (as well as a fantastic secondary theme), Little Children has a fantastic End Credits, Horse Whisperer's got a good theme, so does The War. And this is talking only about the themes (and these are just the ones that I could think of off the top of my head.

[Salacius 7]

Usually people like to discuss the positives: the best scores, the best composers, the best movies. Well, straying away from my Top 5 series for a moment, let's all take a minute to think about the worst composers in the business.

So let's hear it, who do you think are the worst 5 composers working today? Don't forget to add why, and I don't want to see any "Hans Zimmer - self explanatory"

Great another POSITIVE thread

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Speaking of themes- Oscar & Lucinda has one of the best themes I've ever heard, Little Woman is brimming with melody, Good German has a terrific love theme, Angels in America has idas up the wazoo, Shawshank Redemption has a powerful theme, Meet Joe Black has a fantastic theme (as well as a fantastic secondary theme), Little Children has a fantastic End Credits, Horse Whisperer's got a good theme, so does The War. And this is talking only about the themes (and these are just the ones that I could think of off the top of my head.

Great list, Lemony Snicket also has an amazing End Credits. I saw the film on TV somewhere, switched to it, and it was the absolute beginning of the end credits. I haven't seen the movie before, and I bought the score based purely on that sequence.

I wonder if they'll ever adapt the other books, I think there are 12 and that movie only covered 3.

[MSM 126]

MSM - go listen to The Good German, The Horse Whisperer, Finding Nemo and Angels in America - sounds like a lot, but Morlock was right, there's more to Newman than piano meanderings, much more.

Fair enough, I should listen to him more. But aren't we all judging from what we know? Finding Nemo and Horse Whisperer are ok indeed. Btw isn't there a classical theme used in the latter score?

[Morlock 11]

Yes, of course we are. But we should try not to judge until we know.

[MSM 126]

Yes, of course we are. But we should try not to judge until we know.

The question is, how much (how many albums, cues or hours of music) would you suggest should one know from a composer to be able to fairly judge that composer?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

As far as I'm concerned, Newman's end credits to The Shawshank Redemption ranks among the best five minutes of music I've ever heard.

[MSM 126]

I've thought about what I feel listening to Newman, I think his music depresses me when I listen too long.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I think it does help with Newman to have seen the film with some scores like Shawshank.

koray - I clearly don't see what you do in the Snicket End Credits. It's the only track I don't listen to in an otherwise superb score.

Little Women is indeed a fine example of him going out of his normal zone; in fact it doesn't have any of his usual mannerisms. It's very English in sound and contains a number of memorable themes - very, very highly recommended.

[Morlock 11]

Oh, it does have the Newman sound. Just without the quirkiness.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I've thought about what I feel listening to Newman, I think his music depresses me when I listen too long.

I don't find him depressing at all. I also think Road To Perdition, The Green Mile, and Cinderella Man haven't been mentioned, those are really great scores too.

Koray - I clearly don't see what you do in the Snicket End Credits. It's the only track I don't listen to in an otherwise superb score.

I don't know why I love it, it's just a really amazing track IMO. It's catchy and works to perfection with the animated sequence.

[Ollie 1,059]

Thomas Newman is easily one of the very best film composers working now, and is one of most unique, original, and best film composers ever.

I wouldn't get that carried away with my praise for him but I will say his music works better in the films than they do outside of them. So he is a very good film composer.

[indy4 155]

Speaking of themes- Oscar & Lucinda has one of the best themes I've ever heard, Little Woman is brimming with melody, Good German has a terrific love theme, Angels in America has idas up the wazoo, Shawshank Redemption has a powerful theme, Meet Joe Black has a fantastic theme (as well as a fantastic secondary theme), Little Children has a fantastic End Credits, Horse Whisperer's got a good theme, so does The War. And this is talking only about the themes (and these are just the ones that I could think of off the top of my head.

Great list, Lemony Snicket also has an amazing End Credits. I saw the film on TV somewhere, switched to it, and it was the absolute beginning of the end credits. I haven't seen the movie before, and I bought the score based purely on that sequence.

I wonder if they'll ever adapt the other books, I think there are 12 and that movie only covered 3.

There are 13, actually. Unfortunate Events, 13 is unlucky.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Ah I see. I never read any of them, I just knew there were a lot. I liked the movie, I don't know why more aren't in production.

[indy4 155]

I think it's because of several reasons.

1. Compared to the books, the movies were not very good.

2. The books become VERY complicated, it would be almost impossible to film something like that and still maintain a kids' attention.

3. They probably didn't want to sign a contract saying that they would follow all the books, because all the books weren't made yet. They just wanted to do the first three, because they were in print and fairly easy to make. I know they did this for Harry Potters, but perhaps the producers just weren't as sure about SoUE.

4. The books ended with a much-less-than-satisfactory touch. Throughout books 1 - 12, Snicket was building up SO many mysteries, so many secrets, the usual things you wonder about in books, and finally find out at the end of the book/series. He had a giant amount of these, things that didn't make sense, that I think everyone was itching to find out. In book 13, we finished reading the books with the knowledge that the three orphans found out everything there was to find out about these secrets and mysteries, but Snicket never let us know! I think he couldn't think of a proper ending, so he just had it end with the orphans surviving, certain people dying, but no secrets revealed. It would be like if J.K. Rowling ending the Potter books without telling us who died and who didn't, but never mentioning all the mysteries of the series.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I see.

[Henry B 50]

4. The books ended with a much-less-than-satisfactory touch. Throughout books 1 - 12, Snicket was building up SO many mysteries, so many secrets, the usual things you wonder about in books, and finally find out at the end of the book/series. He had a giant amount of these, things that didn't make sense, that I think everyone was itching to find out. In book 13, we finished reading the books with the knowledge that the three orphans found out everything there was to find out about these secrets and mysteries, but Snicket never let us know! I think he couldn't think of a proper ending, so he just had it end with the orphans surviving, certain people dying, but no secrets revealed. It would be like if J.K. Rowling ending the Potter books without telling us who died and who didn't, but never mentioning all the mysteries of the series.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Hahahaha.

Yes, the only good way to end a story is to reveal everything.

[indy4 155]

4. The books ended with a much-less-than-satisfactory touch. Throughout books 1 - 12, Snicket was building up SO many mysteries, so many secrets, the usual things you wonder about in books, and finally find out at the end of the book/series. He had a giant amount of these, things that didn't make sense, that I think everyone was itching to find out. In book 13, we finished reading the books with the knowledge that the three orphans found out everything there was to find out about these secrets and mysteries, but Snicket never let us know! I think he couldn't think of a proper ending, so he just had it end with the orphans surviving, certain people dying, but no secrets revealed. It would be like if J.K. Rowling ending the Potter books without telling us who died and who didn't, but never mentioning all the mysteries of the series.

Hahahahahahahahaha.

Hahahaha.

Yes, the only good way to end a story is to reveal everything.

It is! The author's just being cheap when they don't tie up the loose ends.

[Delorean90 42]

Now, I agree with the general implication of Henry's remark, that some stories are meant left open, but these books do seem like the kind to benefit from some closure.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I would like at least 1 other film from this unfortunately short series. I really enjoyed the style and originality from the first film.

[AI 0]

Clint Eastwood gets my vote.

Runner up: Rolfe Kent

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

It is! The author's just being cheap when they don't tie up the loose ends.

No, the author is being unrealistic if they tie up every single plot thread nicely.

Life doesn't work that way. Arguably, modern storytelling shouldn't either.

Pete - who thinks the Series fo Unfortunate Events film was excellent, and far superior to the first three books.

[indy4 155]

I disagree. And that's one of the reasons why I hateThe Birds.

[Hitch 57]

[Ollie 1,059]

I disagree. And that's one of the reasons why I hateThe Birds.

Wow, just wow.....................

[Red 75]

Some of the better endings I've ever seen are left open, and are left up to the viewers to decide the meaning (or ultimate outcome).

Of course, it isn't always called for.

[Delorean90 42]

It is! The author's just being cheap when they don't tie up the loose ends.

No, the author is being unrealistic if they tie up every single plot thread nicely.

Life doesn't work that way. Arguably, modern storytelling shouldn't either.

I don't see how closure in a story suddenly requires suspension of disbelief.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

There's a difference between closure and tying up every loose thread. There can be one without the other (and all too frequently it's a case of answering every question, but in a way so contrived and extraneous that any sense of closure is sent out the window).

[Hitch 57]

I disagree. And that's one of the reasons why I hateThe Birds.

Wow, just wow.....................

Henry wouldn't know a good score if it pecked him in the ass.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Wow, Hitch, that had absolutely nothing to do with the post you quoted.

[Hitch 57]

Read between the lines, Kora. It's alllllllllll there baby.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I don't see it.

[Delorean90 42]

There's a difference between closure and tying up every loose thread. There can be one without the other (and all too frequently it's a case of answering every question, but in a way so contrived and extraneous that any sense of closure is sent out the window).

I see what you're saying. There can be one without the other. However, I wouldn't say that tying up all the loose ends should be done away with completely. It has its place.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Oh either am I. Generally it can be very satisfying, but when things become too complicated *cough*LOST*cough* it starts to get extremely difficult to satisfy traditional storytelling techniques (i.e. too many guns, not enough time to use them all).

I'm being horrifically general here, but I'd prefer a great ending that really ends the story well in an unexpected, but pleasing way, rather than a predicable vacuum-cleaning of plot ideas.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I learned a new term, Chekhov's gun! Although I did know it as foreshadowing, which is pretty much what it is. Lost does happen to have some of these "guns" but it isn't too complicated if you watch the show regularly.

[Hitch 57]

I don't see it.

If you take off the sunglasses, you'd see it.

[Delorean90 42]

Oh either am I. Generally it can be very satisfying, but when things become too complicated *cough*LOST*cough* it starts to get extremely difficult to satisfy traditional storytelling techniques (i.e. too many guns, not enough time to use them all).

I'm being horrifically general here, but I'd prefer a great ending that really ends the story well in an unexpected, but pleasing way, rather than a predicable vacuum-cleaning of plot ideas.

I see. I would agree with you then.

[Hitch 57]

I learned a new term, Chekhov's gun! Although I did know it as foreshadowing, which is pretty much what it is. Lost does happen to have some of these "guns" but it isn't too complicated if you watch the show regularly.

Chekov's Gun....In Color

And to a lesser extent....Chekov's Finger Gun

[Ollie 1,059]

"I'm sorry Keptin..."

[John Crichton 4]

"Vy not just....waporize it?"

I'm sure they were laughing when they wrote that line.