Worst 5 Composers

[QMM 4]

Big Fish is okay, but the rest you mentioned are all a big snore. Not to mention Terminator Salvation, which is a really lazy piece of tosh.

Serenada Schizophrena and Standard Operating Procedure have shown me that he's still got some good stuff left in him. Still not a big fan of his latest film scores though.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Trevor Rabin's got some pretty good scores under his belt.

[Diego 21]

This thread title should be changed to "The most pretentious thread ever"

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I'm surprised how little Zimmer bashing there's been actually. I actually got to argue about some of my pet worst composers.

[crocodile 8,020]

Big Fish is okay, but the rest you mentioned are all a big snore. Not to mention Terminator Salvation, which is a really lazy piece of tosh.

Serenada Schizophrena and Standard Operating Procedure have shown me that he's still got some good stuff left in him. Still not a big fan of his latest film scores though.

The problem is most people expect Elfman to write the same music all over again. My real appreciation for him started when I realized that he can do so much more. Not that I love every single score he does. I just don't want him to write grand gothic scores with trademark lullaby themes with children chorus anymore. I didn't want The Wolfman. We have enough of this already.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

This thread title should be changed to "The most pretentious thread ever"

No one was complaining 2 years ago. I don't get what's the problem, we argue over who think is the best, why not over who we think is the worst?

[Diego 21]

I'm sorry Koray, I was not directing that at you. I was refering to the latest posts. I'm not a musician and have zero knowledge about such things but I am of the idea that almost any composer deserves some respect. I may not like Santaloalla, cause it's not my kind of music, but it would be foolish and pretentious to say he's not talented at all.

And stuff like "If we get everyone in a room with just a piano: Williams goes Optimus Prime and transforms into a full orchestra kicking everyone's ass, Horner writes a rip-off, Zimmer and company start crying cause they can't write music, Elfman does his 16 note stuff". That's pretentious bullshit. It's not like anyone here has written stuff like Batman, Rocketeer, Hannibal, etc...

[Matt C 455]

I think people are being really too harsh on guys like John Ottman, Brian Tyler and James Horner. Koray, James Horner's done terrific work earlier in his career -- Something Wicked This Way Comes and Krull are my personal favorites. Ottman can write decent scores, it just depends on whether he's really invested in it or just going in on autopilot (Astro Boy had a good main theme).

As for Brian Tyler, it's on the same principle of John Ottman. AVP: Requiem was great, bombastic fun (a helluva lot better than Kloser's work on the first AVP movie) and The Final Destination was on autopilot but still fun. It also depends on what kind of sound the directors want too, that can shape how Tyler or Ottman can deliver a score.

[QMM 4]

Big Fish is okay, but the rest you mentioned are all a big snore. Not to mention Terminator Salvation, which is a really lazy piece of tosh.

Serenada Schizophrena and Standard Operating Procedure have shown me that he's still got some good stuff left in him. Still not a big fan of his latest film scores though.

The problem is most people expect Elfman to write the same music all over again. My real appreciation for him started when I realized that he can do so much more. Not that I love every single score he does. I just don't want him to write grand gothic scores with trademark lullaby themes with children chorus anymore. I didn't want The Wolfman. We have enough of this already.

Karol

That's why I mentioned those two scores as he went into a new style with them.

[John Crichton 4]

On the other hand, I'm really liking Christophe Beck and Deborah Lurie at the moment, Once in a while you come across a composer whose style seems to gel with you instantly.

Beck wrote some awesome stuff for Buffy (and usually used one or more live players along with synths), but he's fallen off my radar screen since. Any recent works I should check out?

[David Coscina 4]

I'm sorry Koray, I was not directing that at you. I was refering to the latest posts. I'm not a musician and have zero knowledge about such things but I am of the idea that almost any composer deserves some respect. I may not like Santaloalla, cause it's not my kind of music, but it would be foolish and pretentious to say he's not talented at all.

And stuff like "If we get everyone in a room with just a piano: Williams goes Optimus Prime and transforms into a full orchestra kicking everyone's ass, Horner writes a rip-off, Zimmer and company start crying cause they can't write music, Elfman does his 16 note stuff". That's pretentious bullshit. It's not like anyone here has written stuff like Batman, Rocketeer, Hannibal, etc...

since this is degenerated into name calling let me just say chill the fuck out. My post was a super over generalization and tried to keep with the spirit of the thread.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Koray, James Horner's done terrific work earlier in his career -- Something Wicked This Way Comes and Krull are my personal favorites.

Horner still isn't among my top favorites, but I do indeed like a lot of his work. My tastes have changed considerably since I started this.

[Red 75]

Trevor Rabin's got some pretty good scores under his belt.

He sucks. One of the worst I can think of.

[Matt C 455]

I blame Jerry Bruckheimer for forcing either Rabin or the other not-as-talented MV composers on his projects. I don't get his love for that MV sound, aside from it being the recent flavor of choice for directors these days. At least Bruckheimer mercifully kept Rabin off Prince of Persia and got Harry Gregson-Williams instead.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Bruckheimer reserves Rabin for all his Nick Cage movies.

[David Coscina 4]

Okay here's a little reality- and most of you know this anyhow- film composers don't often get to write music they want to write. That luxury has been taken away (if it even existed in the first place) with over zealous producers, focus groups and all that crap. Even on a smaller scale, composers must constantly wrestle with their creative vision and the directors in the hope they will align at some point. I do agree that the Michael Bays and Jerry Bruckheimer's of the world do demand a heavy handed approach. So I look away from the blockbuster efforts of these composers and more towards the smaller films where the composer can be given more latitude by the director. Funny enough, the Media Ventures stuff still sounds pretty much the same, regardless of whether it's for a large scale overblown popcorn ride or a smaller film. The approach and style is often very similar with the exception that the orchestral or instrumental resources having been scaled down. This argument also doesn't wash in many ways because someone like Michael Giacchino composed a lovely, if not sentimental, score for UP! in a very old fashioned style. This was a big budget, A list film and he was obviously given some room to do what he felt the film needed. So if Gia can score a film using these types of scoring devices, why can't someone like Brian Tyler? Well, for one, Tyler just doesn't have the same range that Giacchino has. I have heard a LOT of his output and will continue to with the optimism but thus far he hasn't shown me anything special. Same for Ottman who by all accounts is a delightful person and an enthusiastic supporter of film scores. The problem with both of these guys is in their abilities insofar as range of technique and style compounded with their understanding or lack thereof of structure. Yes guys, even film scores benefit from this. This is why something like Superman works so well. Williams deliberately set out to create a narrative dramatic arc so that the music progressively develops throughout the course of the story which underlines the dramatic genesis of the film. Guys like Tyler or Ottman, in the projects I have seen/heard, seem to lack this fundamental imperative. Everything is for the moment with little to no regard for the score as a whole. David Raksin once said in a film bio on Bernard Herrmann "almost anyone can come up with one good melody in his/her life. The key to being a composer is how you vary it and develop this melody in many different ways. Benny was a master at doing that". I know a lot of you don't put much stock in what I say so I'm hoping you regard Mr. Raksin's comment with more respect.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Well said! I definitely agree, as far as my limited understanding of the industry is concerned!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Giacchino's case is pretty special though, as we all know Pixar are gods amongst men and are pretty amazing in what they let their creative staff go for. That's the only company I can think of where the cafe staff probably have an input into what goes on film.

[David Coscina 4]

Giacchino's case is pretty special though, as we all know Pixar are gods amongst men and are pretty amazing in what they let their creative staff go for. That's the only company I can think of where the cafe staff probably have an input into what goes on film.

this is true.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Any directors and producers ever say to a composer "just do your thing"?

[Wojo 2,453]

The deaf ones.

[QMM 4]

Any directors and producers ever say to a composer "just do your thing"?

This is what Abrams/Lindelof/Cuse have been telling Giacchino for the whole LOST series pretty much.

[crocodile 8,020]

He does pretty much what he wants, doesn't he? They don't seem to give him much instructions. At least, that's what it looks like from the documentaries. I mean, it doesn't really sound like what they temp-tracked in the pilot episode.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They temp tracked the pilot with a lot of different stuff, even Hans Zimmer!

[crocodile 8,020]

They temp tracked the pilot with a lot of different stuff, even Hans Zimmer!

Yes, and Vangelis, Horner, Carpenter, Herrmann, Morricone. And even Thomas Newman, for some reason. Pretty schizophrenic, I'd say.

Karol

[Ollie 1,059]

Okay here's a little reality- and most of you know this anyhow- film composers don't often get to write music they want to write. That luxury has been taken away (if it even existed in the first place) with over zealous producers, focus groups and all that crap. Even on a smaller scale, composers must constantly wrestle with their creative vision and the directors in the hope they will align at some point. I do agree that the Michael Bays and Jerry Bruckheimer's of the world do demand a heavy handed approach. So I look away from the blockbuster efforts of these composers and more towards the smaller films where the composer can be given more latitude by the director. Funny enough, the Media Ventures stuff still sounds pretty much the same, regardless of whether it's for a large scale overblown popcorn ride or a smaller film. The approach and style is often very similar with the exception that the orchestral or instrumental resources having been scaled down. This argument also doesn't wash in many ways because someone like Michael Giacchino composed a lovely, if not sentimental, score for UP! in a very old fashioned style. This was a big budget, A list film and he was obviously given some room to do what he felt the film needed. So if Gia can score a film using these types of scoring devices, why can't someone like Brian Tyler? Well, for one, Tyler just doesn't have the same range that Giacchino has. I have heard a LOT of his output and will continue to with the optimism but thus far he hasn't shown me anything special. Same for Ottman who by all accounts is a delightful person and an enthusiastic supporter of film scores. The problem with both of these guys is in their abilities insofar as range of technique and style compounded with their understanding or lack thereof of structure. Yes guys, even film scores benefit from this. This is why something like Superman works so well. Williams deliberately set out to create a narrative dramatic arc so that the music progressively develops throughout the course of the story which underlines the dramatic genesis of the film. Guys like Tyler or Ottman, in the projects I have seen/heard, seem to lack this fundamental imperative. Everything is for the moment with little to no regard for the score as a whole. David Raksin once said in a film bio on Bernard Herrmann "almost anyone can come up with one good melody in his/her life. The key to being a composer is how you vary it and develop this melody in many different ways. Benny was a master at doing that". I know a lot of you don't put much stock in what I say so I'm hoping you regard Mr. Raksin's comment with more respect.

Bravo.

And I want to stress something because it was brought up at FSM, I don't think anyone here is insulting the composer on a personal level. Yes one's job can be considered personal but I'm referring to race, religion, sexuality etc etc.

There are planty of nice people in this world who aren't good at their jobs or don't produce satisfying results.

I'd really like to see John Ottman step away from editing films, I think he even mentioned that was a problem when it comes to his job as a composer. He provides the temp track and he has might stick to it too much.

[crocodile 8,020]

I'd really like to see John Ottman step away from editing films, I think he even mentioned that was a problem when it comes to his job as a composer. He provides the temp track and he has might stick to it too much.

Ironically, he is better at editing than composing.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

How is that ironic? He was an editor first.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

How is that ironic? He was an editor first.

I think because he's generally known as a composer first, editor second.

[crocodile 8,020]

I was referring to Mark's post, where he said Ottman should quit editing. And he clearly does this better than composing music. I thought this was obvious.

Karol

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

THAT THE ENTIRE ORCHESTRA DOES NOT NEED TO ALL PLAY AT ONCE AND AS LOUD AS POSSIBLE.

Which he doesn't do as often! In his non-epic "I wrote it in one week" projects.

[John Crichton 4]

Any directors and producers ever say to a composer "just do your thing"?

This is what Abrams/Lindelof/Cuse have been telling Giacchino for the whole LOST series pretty much.

It's what Abrams tells him for pretty much all their projects I would think, they have a very good relationship. Pretty much the modern equivalent of Spielberg/Williams.

[Damien F 1,742]

Funny, I was going to start a similar trend.

I think Harald Kloser is one of the worst composers working in Hollywood today, especially considering some of the massive productions he scores. His scores are so bland and devoid of any complexity or emotion. I've heard better scores for wildlife shows! Thank goodness he didn't score ID4. Imagine what a composer like Newton Howard, Giachino or Young would have done with 2012!

[rant] I agree that the MV crowd have lowered the standards of the film music industry. They take the art away from film scores, and offer poor quality low-budget ready-made scores to producers. They are the pot-noodle of the score industry. [/rant] However, I do enjoy Hans Zimmer's music when he isn't on autopilot, and John Powell is by far the best of Zimmer protégés.

James Horner definately isn't a bad composer, just currently an unoriginal self-plagerising one. His scores from the 1980s and 1990s are absolute 5 star gems, but in the 2000s they have become so tiresome to listen to (incl. Avatar). The last Horner CD I can listen to from start to finish is The Perfect Storm. It's sad to see a once great composer fall from grace like this.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Having 1 good score does not make you a good composer.

maybe one day Zimmer will have one good score.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

You know you love Zimmer, Joey. You need to stop hiding in the closet.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

That closet hasn't seen him for years.

[Quintus 5,399]

Having 1 good score does not make you a good composer.

maybe one day Zimmer will have one good score.

Gladiator, which isn't only a good score, but a great one.

[David Coscina 4]

Having 1 good score does not make you a good composer.

maybe one day Zimmer will have one good score.

Gladiator, which isn't only a good score, but a great one.

I thought it was effective inside the film. Not much of a listen on its own for me though.

[Quintus 5,399]

When it came out the cd never left my player. Loved it.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

When it came out the cd never left my player. Loved it.

Same here. Unfortunately it has a lot less of the power it used to. But it still gets an occasional listen.

[Swordfish392 3]

MOzart

Goldsmith

Giacchino

3 of the worst - most overrated composers on earth

http://video.golem.de/games/1545/tomb-raider-underworld-trailer.html

!

[Morn 8]

Goldsmith... OVERRATED?

Eh, screw Mozart though.