Cutthroat Island

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Every few days I will post a thread on a random score from my collection that we can discuss and rate. I made a playlist on my computer with one track of each score I've got, so by using the random play option, I'll be able to post a truly random score each time. Hopefully this will allow us to discuss some scores that would otherwise never be discussed. Also we can record the rating so that we can create a full list of the ratings given to scores by JWFan.com.

I'd like to have some of my favourite scores discussed before I leave for half a year, so the next scores won't be random. At least they'll be well-known. Hope you don't mind.

Today's score is Cutthroat Island by John Debney. Are you familiar with it? What do you like about it? What don't you like about it? How do do you think it works in the film? What are your favourite tracks?

So far JWFan has rated:

See Soundtrack Ratings by JWFan.com.

This web page contains the ratings from all my previous polls as well as those of Blumenkohl's.

Final ratings are converted to a 1-10 rating for both rating systems so that they can be compared.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

top marks.

big, brash, bold, love it!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Definite 5 stars from me. My absolute favourite score. I can tell the whole story of how it changed my opinion of the score for Pirates of the Caribbean and Media Ventures in general again, but I have done so often enough. Suffice it to say that when I saw the reviews for this score, I thought they were exaggerating. When I was fortunate enough to find the OST, I quickly found out that I wholly agree with them.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The OST?

Get the 2-discer!

[Pieter Boelen 740]

You think I don't have it yet? Bought it as soon as it was released and I'm not at all sorry I did. Once I had found the OST and became a big fan of it, of course I was thrilled when the (almost) complete version was announced. And I'm very glad to have it. Sure there's some less interesting parts, but the new good parts are extremely welcome. Most notably the whole 18-minute "The Battle" track.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Good.

I assumed you had it. I just couldn't resist.

5-star score. I was quite happy to tell Mr. Debney it was my favorite big bold adventure score when he signed my booklet.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hmmm...didn't you tell David Arnold the same when he signed the bookled for ID4?

No wonder there was a big row.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

No. I could only splutter something incoherent and nod at Arnold.

Also, he didn't sign ID4. He signed my Stargate DE and TWINE.

Oh, and that poster (which I have framed in my room now).

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Damn, I still did not find a good frame for a decent price, and now I have this years poster also!

DAMMIT!

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Well, that's pointless.

Send me your poster, I'll frame it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

You will frame it, then send the framed poster back to me?

That is uncommonly kind of you.

[indy4 155]

4 stars, I love it, but I wouldn't give it top marks as there are some parts that drag.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Are you judging the 2 CD release or the OST.

Admittedly the OST is a lot tighter, even though it's missing some juicy stuff.

I always loved the opening double whammy of the Main Title cue and Carriage Chase. 15 minutes of pure testosteron.

[Hitch 57]

5 star epic score although I'd have given an extra brownie point if Michael Douglas had starred in it.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

You will frame it, then send the framed poster back to me?

That is uncommonly kind of you.

I didn't say that!

[indy4 155]

Are you judging the 2 CD release or the OST.

Admittedly the OST is a lot tighter, even though it's missing some juicy stuff.

I always loved the opening double whammy of the Main Title cue and Carriage Chase. 15 minutes of pure testosteron.

I only have the 2 CD release.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

trying to be big and bold but not really

...just average

but hey! people doesn't like E.T. either here

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

4 stars. Might have given it 4.5 perhaps, but it's overrated anyway. Basically a damn fine score, to be sure, but it suffers a bit from too much bombast, makes me lose interest halfway through so I don't even appreciate the quieter parts (if there are that many).

I still wonder if I should get the expansion.

[Erik Woods 555]

5 STARS. One of the top ten scores of all time!

-Erik-

[Ollie 1,059]

I'll give a 4, a little too much bombast and temp track love.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

What scores does it emulate then?

[Pieter Boelen 740]

The past few years I've been trying to lay my hands on any piratey score I could find. And although it's clear to see where John Debney found his inspiration for this score, I have been unable to find any piratey score that is truly similar. As far as I'm concerned, Cutthroat Island is by far the best of the lot. Somehow I don't find the classic pirate scores quite as engaging. Cutthroat Island has it all, great themes, great use of the orchestra, amazing action music, beautiful music, good use of choir. I can understand why somebody would think it too bombastic, but that is merely a matter of taste. As far as bombast is concerned, it doesn't come much better than this.

[Richard Penna 3,688]

4 stars

I've never given it the full 2 disc listen, but the bits and pieces I have heard were great.

[bondo 33]

5 Star - Film music perfection

[crocodile 8,012]

Are you judging the 2 CD release or the OST.

Admittedly the OST is a lot tighter, even though it's missing some juicy stuff.

I can't get through the set so I don't know what juicy stuff you're referring to. The single CD is good enough for me.

What scores does it emulate then?

David Arnold, mostly. Not a particular score, just the overall vibe. Some choral writing is very similar and one of the themes could come straight out of Stargate.

4.5 stars.

Karol

[MSM 126]

4 stars. A rousing adventure score, but also very unoriginal. David Arnold could have written this score.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

The single CD is indeed very impressive and might work better as a listening experience, but there's a fair amount of stuff not on there that's really quite good.

06 - Morgan In Command

Starts out quite beautiful and sad, but quickly develops into a short, but impressive swashbuckling statement.

08 - A Lady Scorned

Nice build-up to the Carriage Chase.

18 - Betrayal

Some impressive desperate-sounding choral music.

32 - The Battle, To Dawg's Ship, Morgan Battles Dawg, Dawg's Demise, The Triumph

Impressive all the way through. The beginning and end are on the OST, but the middle is missing and the middle is at least as good as the parts that are on the OST.

I especially like the choir-backed action music of "Morgan Battles Dawg" that makes it sound like Morgan's about to be toast.

There's, of course, a lot more to like on the 2-CD set, but I think these are the main parts. I think the OST is as good as a 1-CD representation of the score can be, but there's still a lot not on the OST. The 2-CD version does have a fair amount of less interesting music in there, but it's still great to have those unreleased pieces that ARE really good. And even the not-so-interesting parts are only not-so-interesting compared to the impressive rest of the score, but are quite good on their own anyway.

I do see some similarities with the music of David Arnold, but there can't have been much temp-tracking going on in that respect. Cutthroat Island is from 1995, so David Arnold only wrote Stargate and Last of the Dogmen before that which might've served as temp track. Independence Day was from 1996. If anything, Cutthroat Island might've served as temp track for that film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He also wrote The Young Americans.

but you are right, some parts do sound a bit like Arnold, but that hardly means the score suffers from Temp Track Love, like Mark claims.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

He also wrote The Young Americans.

Is that in a similar vein to Stargate and Last of the Dogmen?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It is very reconisable as an David Arnold score, and has one suberb choral cue. but it's more of a score for an urban crime drama. and hugely obscure.

[tjguitar 0]

whoever voted not familiar needs to buy this immediately. Silva has some of their release on Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/John-Debney-Cutthroat-...VQQcmdZViewItem

[Morlock 11]

4 stars. Might have given it 4.5 perhaps, but it's overrated anyway. Basically a damn fine score, to be sure, but it suffers a bit from too much bombast, makes me lose interest halfway through so I don't even appreciate the quieter parts (if there are that many).

I still wonder if I should get the expansion.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

Does that mean that you agree with me or that I should get the expanded release?

[Morlock 11]

That your words reflect my opinions on the score, including the expanded release (I'm also still wondering).

[Red 75]

A five, though not as strong of a five as you might think. Still, it's my favorite swashbuckling score.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I watched the film again yesterday and the music was as amazing now as it was last time. The film itself is also not half as bad as people make it out to be. It's an OK pirate film and with the lack of good pirate films available on DVD, it's certainly enjoyable if you like such films. I did notice that, rather than scoring every move of the action, the music to Cutthroat Island is sometimes a bit detached from the movie, which in this case is actually a good thing. The music just keeps going when the movie loses some of its momentum. Seems to me John Debney let himself be inspired by the good parts of the film, but not be contrained by the bad parts. Why can't I vote for six stars?

[Ollie 1,059]

Does that mean that you agree with me or that I should get the expanded release?

You should probably stick with the regular release.

[Wojo 2,453]

Stick with the OST if loud bombastic thematically repetitive scores get old for you. I bought the 2-disc complete score and never regretted it, and while it's a five star score, I can't listen to it every day.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I watched the film again yesterday and the music was as amazing now as it was last time. The film itself is also not half as bad as people make it out to be. It's an OK pirate film and with the lack of good pirate films available on DVD, it's certainly enjoyable if you like such films. I did notice that, rather than scoring every move of the action, the music to Cutthroat Island is sometimes a bit detached from the movie, which in this case is actually a good thing. The music just keeps going when the movie loses some of its momentum. Seems to me John Debney let himself be inspired by the good parts of the film, but not be contrained by the bad parts. Why can't I vote for six stars?

In hindsight, I guess the film was ahead of it's time. The world was not yet ready for silly pirate/action movies.

[Marian Schedenig 8,193]

You should probably stick with the regular release.

Thanks, I'll just continue doing that for now.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Saved another 20 euro's

[Pieter Boelen 740]

Actually, the thing I disliked most in the film was in the art direction. The ships don't look quite as beautiful as they should; instead they look pretty "fat". Also many of the swords are fairly ugly. But if you look past that, it isn't all that bad of a film as far as I'm concerned. I think the failure of that film had more to do with the lack of advertizing and the news that it bankrupted the studio and perhaps also the time it was released, but taken on it's own terms, it isn't all that bad.

[indy4 155]

The film had a great swashbuckling feeling to it--it really felt like a pirate film, that I admired.

Yes the actions scenes were too long, and there was way too much slow motion, but overall I've seen MUCH worse. I wouldn't even call it a bad film.

The acting was horrible, though.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

The film had a great swashbuckling feeling to it--it really felt like a pirate film, that I admired.

That's the one thing I really like about that film. And the scenery in the film looks amazing. Lots of beautiful backgrounds.

[Wojo 2,453]

In hindsight, I guess the film was ahead of it's time. The world was not yet ready for silly pirate/action movies.

And in 1995, you got a double whammy of silly pirate/action movies with Waterworld. Not pirate in the swashbuckling sense, I'm just including it as another long drawn out pretentious epic set almost wholly on the open sea and looking for treasure with a treasure map. Yet Costner's flick fared better worldwide than Davis' and Modine's.

For Cutthroat Island, the studio put all its eggs into one basket by blowing an A-budget on a B script with cheesy dialog and terrible acting, with at best two B lead actors and a supporting cast of unknowns. The action and atmosphere were immersive, but not enough to save it at the box office. However, wait a few years and put witty dialogue, a more attractive cast, wonderful acting, better special effects, slap the Disney brand on it, and then you have Pirates of the Caribbean 1, which was not even remotely plausible as it was more of a fantastical swashbuckling movie then a realistic pirate movie, but was still as smashing success. And now I'd say the world has been exhausted by silly pirate action movies after Disney's trilogy.

[Ollie 1,059]

Actually Waterworld isn't that bad of a film. Had it not suffered thru some of the problems and bad press it might have been a well received summer blockbuster.

[Pieter Boelen 740]

I watched Waterworld a while ago as well. I enjoyed it.

[Wojo 2,453]

I enjoy both Waterworld and Cutthroat Island when you've got nothing else to watch. They're self-contained Saturday afternoon guilty pleasure popcorn movies.

[indy4 155]

I prefer CI to Waterworld.