The Force Theme thread

[Josh500 1,615]

Depending on the orchestration, it's different, of course, but I'm talking about the melody per se. I think it is a deceptively simple one that is also one of the most brilliant things JW has ever written.

The A-section conjures up (for me, at least): a sense of hardship, insurmountable difficulties... then pride, courage, and strength.

The B-section conjures up (in me, at least): determination, decency, and triumph.

Also, is it just me or does the whole melody makes one thing of long-ago legends and mythology?

What do you think? Also, what are the best examples of it in the 6 movies, save the most obvious ones: "The Binary Sunset" and "Battle Over Coruscant."

[oierem 164]

Which is the B section???

Best examples:

TPM: Anakin leaves Tatooine, Blowing up the Federation Spaceship.....

AOTC: Anakin goes to find his mother, Chasing Dooku....

ROTS: Battle over Coruscant, Goodbye Old Friend, Anakin vs. Obi-Wan.....

ANH: Binary Sunset , A Name Not Heard,Burning Homestead, Use the Force, The Throne Room...

TESB: Beneath the AT-AT, Jedi Master Revealed, Yoda and the Force, Rescue from Cloud City, Rebel Fleet....

ROTJ: Strong I Am With The Force, Your Father He Is, Levitation, and all the statements during the duel (including the short statment when Luke cuts Vader's hand, just before falling into the Emperor's theme)

One of my favourite themes. Basically, I like every single statement of this theme.

[Josh500 1,615]

Which is the B section???

If you cut the theme in half, you have the first part and the second part. I think they're (almost) of the same length. I always call them A- and B-section.

Nice examples!

[Datameister 2,086]

I believe there's an actual (albeit very rare) B section, so we ought to be careful with our terminology.

I absolutely love the Force theme because of the complex and wonderful emotions it creates. It takes itself very seriously without becoming cheesy. There's a solemn determination in it...a resolve...and as you said, that amazing sense of history, of long-lost mythology. Almost bittersweet nostalgia, particularly in a few ANH statements of it. It never gets old, and it lends itself to many different statements. It's parsecs ahead of Luke's theme, which is what most people unfortunately associate with the Star Wars scores.

[Taikomochi 1,143]

The Force theme doesn't make me feel anything. Unfortunately, the SW scores were forced on me at such a young age and on that I no longer feel anything about them.

[indy4 155]

One of the best variations is unreleased, when Obi Wan flies to Utapauo in RotS.

[Datameister 2,086]

One of the best variations is unreleased, when Obi Wan flies to Utapauo in RotS.

Agreed - but mostly for the quieter stuff in the hangar just before he takes off. The stuff as he flies away is good, but not my favorite.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

I prefer to think of this theme as Ben (not Obi Wan) Kenobi's theme, which I believe is what Williams originally composed it for -- mainly because its nobility seems to have a sense of tragedy attached to it. Hence, it works for a man who's still noble in a corrupt galaxy, but too old to do anything about it. Then, after Ben's death in the first installment, it made a successful (and logical) evolution to represent the Force itself. Its musical characteristics still fit then, even in its most triumphant moments.

However, its glorified use in the prequels doesn't convince me. It's logical, within the series, to bring back the old theme for the same element -- but the Jedi are in control for most of the prequels, so why should the theme's tragic undertones suit them? I thought it was very nice when, in RoTS, Williams made the switch and associated the theme to Obi Wan Kenobi again. It connects this film to the original, bringing it full circle. But I find the same problem -- should an old man's theme fit a young hero in his prime just because the same notes are made to sound big and heavy?

[Luke Skywalker 1,806]

obi-wan's story in ROTS is tragic too...

[Josh500 1,615]

I believe there's an actual (albeit very rare) B section, so we ought to be careful with our terminology.

I absolutely love the Force theme because of the complex and wonderful emotions it creates. It takes itself very seriously without becoming cheesy. There's a solemn determination in it...a resolve...and as you said, that amazing sense of history, of long-lost mythology. Almost bittersweet nostalgia, particularly in a few ANH statements of it. It never gets old, and it lends itself to many different statements.

Yeah, I totally agree.

It's parsecs ahead of Luke's theme, which is what most people unfortunately associate with the Star Wars scores.

However, I don't really agree with this. I think Luke Skywalker's Theme (Star Wars Main Title) is on the same level as the Force Theme. It just expresses something slightly different, to wit, IMO: optimism, courage, youthful bravado, goodness, and just a sense of "spectacle."

[bondo 33]

I always liked the version in SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE occuring at 3:30 in "Night Skies"

[Josh500 1,615]

I always liked the version in SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE occuring at 3:30 in "Night Skies"

Hmmm I am not familiar with that. Is it on any of the OS albums?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

...

Obviously, it would be on the Shadows of the Empire soundtrack...

[Datameister 2,086]

I think Luke Skywalker's Theme (Star Wars Main Title) is on the same level as the Force Theme. It just expresses something slightly different, to wit, IMO: optimism, courage, youthful bravado, goodness, and just a sense of "spectacle."

It does indeed convey all those things, and when I'm in the right mood, it lights up my face with such a wide grin. It's perfect for ANH especially. I didn't at all mean to knock Luke's theme...it's just that it can feel a little cheesy to me at times...it's so unabashedly earnest, you know? The Force theme never feels that way to me. But again, they're both great themes. And some of the weirder, minor-key-ish statements of Luke's theme (e.g. near the beginning of ESB) are really evocative and harmonically interesting.

[Red 75]

My favorite appearance of the theme is probably "Funeral Pyre For a Jedi" from Return of the Jedi, but only the film version.

[Josh500 1,615]

I think Luke Skywalker's Theme (Star Wars Main Title) is on the same level as the Force Theme. It just expresses something slightly different, to wit, IMO: optimism, courage, youthful bravado, goodness, and just a sense of "spectacle."

It does indeed convey all those things, and when I'm in the right mood, it lights up my face with such a wide grin. It's perfect for ANH especially. I didn't at all mean to knock Luke's theme...it's just that it can feel a little cheesy to me at times...it's so unabashedly earnest, you know? The Force theme never feels that way to me. But again, they're both great themes. And some of the weirder, minor-key-ish statements of Luke's theme (e.g. near the beginning of ESB) are really evocative and harmonically interesting.

Cheesy? I've never thought of it that way. When do you feel it's cheesy? (Examples?) I think it's more unabashedly straightforward and honest rather than earnest...

I think these two themes fit perfectly into the Star Wars universe. It can't exist without them, I'm sure.

[Datameister 2,086]

Oh, that is a positively chilling statement, red rabbit, particularly after the initial horn solo (which is wonderful, but not really anything new). What a wonderful final statement of the theme for the OT!

My favorite PT statement is probably when Anakin leaves home. It's a huge moment in the saga. Actually...a defining moment, even. If he hadn't left, there never would have been a Vader...but there never would have been a Luke, either. The music encapsulates with great weight all the bad AND good stuff that will come from that moment. And it's the first time we hear that Neapolitan chord, isn't it? (Which I'm normally not the HUGEST fan of, I might add, but it works splendidly here.)

EDIT: Josh500, I can't really think of any particular example that really exemplifies what I'm talking about, but I only notice it sometimes, and again, I'm not at all trying to put down the theme. I agree that it's perfect for the Star Wars universe, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I just happen to like the Force theme even more! =D Usually.

[Josh500 1,615]

EDIT: Josh500, I can't really think of any particular example that really exemplifies what I'm talking about, but I only notice it sometimes, and again, I'm not at all trying to put down the theme. I agree that it's perfect for the Star Wars universe, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I just happen to like the Force theme even more! =D Usually.

I always thought Luke's Theme as heard at the beginning of the End Credits sounded a little like the Mickey Mouse theme... the way it's orchestrated, that is.

But that's just me.

[John Crichton 4]

It's perfection, pure and simple. And it's the true main theme of Star Wars, the backbone that all the scores are built upon.

Let's see, my favorite statements from each score:

ANH- Binary Sunset, duh. And I'm actually not a huge fan of the big fanfare versions that were used late in the score, I'm glad Williams went away from that.

ESB- Hyperspace, when Leia hears Luke telepathically.

Jedi- Either the herioc statement when Vader throws the Emperor down the pit, or either version of Funeral Pyre.

TPM- Anakin leaves home, and the one that's counterpointed with DotF when the droid ship is destroyed.

AotC- The Binary Sunset reprise.

RotS- Lots of great ones here: the big statement at the start of the movie, Obi-Wan's departure for and arrival at Utapau, and the uber-dark statement when Anakin decides to turn on Mace Windu (the mirror of the Jedi one mentioned earlier).

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I really like the statement when old Ben is talking about the Empire in "Star Wars". To me, that instills this incredibly forlorn feeling of nostalgia, and I love it ( and Alec Guiness' delivery made it all the more awesome).

[Datameister 2,086]

Absolutely. And the statement that begins as he reveals that he is Obi-Wan is sheer magic, as is the earlier statement when he lifts his hood for the first time. (I still get chills when that plays at the beginning of the TPM trailer...)

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh yeah, I know what you are talking about. I get chills just remembering it. Contrary to John Crichton's sentiment, I love its use in "The Battle of Yavin". Not when Luke hears Ben, but that one very tense variation as time keeps running out. I am going to listen to "Star Wars" now....

[Datameister 2,086]

I agree. Unlike John Crichton, I'm definitely a fan of those fanfares, particularly the first (and rather complex) one that starts as the X-wings swoop down toward the Death Star, I believe. I don't think they'd really belong in any of the other films, but they feel right for that particular battle. And then there's the Throne Room march, which is just perfection, at least in the original recording.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

I did not entirely like it when John Williams regurgitated it for the last "Star Wars" film. I actually preferred the film version.

[Datameister 2,086]

I strongly agree. I thought it was a very disappointing performance. While it was nice to hear the parts that weren't in the film version - I hadn't heard those before - the performance and sound quality were just so...sterile. Having grown up with the faster, edgier, more dramatic version in the film, I really just can't get into the rerecording.

[Jacob 0]

I did not entirely like it when John Williams regurgitated it for the last "Star Wars" film. I actually preferred the film version.

That arrangement dates back at least as far as 1991 for The Star Wars Trilogy Skywalker Symphony album.

But yes, it does feel needlessly tacked on there at the end of the RotS album like that.

[Datameister 2,086]

I can't speak for Nick, but my issue is not so much with the structure or arrangement, but with the slow tempo and the lack of any real enthusiasm in the performance. Not to mention the modern/digital/"perfect" sound quality, which I think is a wonderful thing for some scores but not so much for others. Part of what I love about the original Throne Room recording is that harsh, energetic sound that the LSO's older recordings have. It can be grating at times, but in that context, it works perfectly. And that makes the ROTS version somewhat superfluous, especially considering the amount of great unreleased music that could have replaced it. But we're digressing here.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,493]

A great appearance is after Ben uses the mind trick on the troops and the landspeeder approaches the cantina. It's a really warm "feel good" statement that eases what was a tense predicament with the power of the Force. Always liked it.

[Datameister 2,086]

Yeah, that's a nice one. Doesn't ignore the weirdness of Mos Eisley, but it brings a little comfort to the scene.

[Henry B 50]

Which is the B section???

If you cut the theme in half, you have the first part and the second part. I think they're (almost) of the same length. I always call them A- and B-section.

The "B section" is essentially "The Rebel Fleet" from ESB. That's it. Now, this passage is often included in sheet music titled "The Force Theme," which tends to warrant its inclusion in the theme, but really it's a one-time elaboration, not a permanent piece of it.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Oh, another statement in "Star Wars" that I really like. Three statements, actually. Two are found in "The Burning Homestead", and one is found at the beginning of "Mos Eisley Spaceport".

[Hlao-roo 389]

I prefer to think of this theme as Ben (not Obi Wan) Kenobi's theme, which I believe is what Williams originally composed it for -- mainly because its nobility seems to have a sense of tragedy attached to it. Hence, it works for a man who's still noble in a corrupt galaxy, but too old to do anything about it. Then, after Ben's death in the first installment, it made a successful (and logical) evolution to represent the Force itself. Its musical characteristics still fit then, even in its most triumphant moments.

However, its glorified use in the prequels doesn't convince me. It's logical, within the series, to bring back the old theme for the same element -- but the Jedi are in control for most of the prequels, so why should the theme's tragic undertones suit them? I thought it was very nice when, in RoTS, Williams made the switch and associated the theme to Obi Wan Kenobi again. It connects this film to the original, bringing it full circle. But I find the same problem -- should an old man's theme fit a young hero in his prime just because the same notes are made to sound big and heavy?

Well argued, as usual. But I would hesitate to over-conceptualize Williams's thematic writing, which is relatively fluid and liberal in its application. As we have seen (or heard), Williams is willing to utilize a theme simply for its emotional sweep even if doing so muddies its original leitmotivic associations.