Williams' "Concert" Suites... which actually work live?

[Bowie 45]

Just watched the Stargazers and Flight to Neverland... yeah... big fan of the recording but yeah... 'nuff said.

Anyone else feel they're just too technically demanding for live performance, even more so than most classical works, and by extension aren't as good?

[Nick Parker 3,040]

When you write "'concert' suites", are you referring to original concert works like "Soundings", or concert arrangements of film work like "The Forrest Battle"?

[Hlao-roo 389]

When you write "'concert' suites", are you referring to original concert works like "Soundings", or concert arrangements of film work like "The Forrest Battle"?

I believe "The Forrest Battle" was actually composed by Alan Silvestri.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Ha, it took me a few seconds to get that one. If it makes you feel better, I could spell it as "The Forest Battle".

[Hlao-roo 389]

If it makes you feel better, I could spell it as "The Forest Battle".

Nah, don't burden yourself so.

[Incanus 5,715]

It is obvious that the very reason Williams has done these specific arrangements is naturally that they can be played live. And yes they can be demanding but I have heard very good or even excellent performances of his concert suites and even his actual film cues live. I guess it has to do with the fact that they have also been performed by the premier orchestras here in Finland who have the skills for it. In fact many of the conductors have pointed out that especially the brass has its work cut out for it in Williams' works (when they play the fanfarish fan favourites of course). But truthfully I have never heard a bad performance of JWs concert suites.

I have heard Escape from Venice, Indy's Very First Adventure and The Slave Children's Crusade performances which were the actual cues from the score and not concert arrangements and the orchestra played them beautifully rivaling the OST recodings (except for the Very First Adventure which had a considerably slower tempo). The Williams concert I attended 2 years ago was such a wonderful performance in its entirety and it contained a very varied selection of his scores from Superman to Schindler's List and Far and Away. The only problem was in DotF the balance between the choir and the orchestra which I guess is the difficulty with every orchestra/choir piece. DotF also requires a sort of aggressive sound that most choirs don't quite achieve.

And certainly it is a matter of opinion if these concert arrangements or this music in general is as good as the classical music. Some of the film music is incredibly tricky to get right in the studio, let alone in a live performance where you have just one try at it. All the Williams' music I have heard live has only shown me how intricate and well orchestrated his music is, how challenging it can for the players and of how high quality it truly is.

[Hlao-roo 389]

For the most part, my only issue with performances of his concert arrangements is with flagging tempi that can sap certain pieces of necessary energy.

[Incanus 5,715]

Yes that's true. The tempi problem has not luckily plagued most of the performances I have heard but it really saps the music of its original energy if it is played lethargically slow. Indy's Very First Adventure was a enlightening example of this. The slow performance sounded like the orchestra was swimming through tar as the saying around here goes

[Hlao-roo 389]

Yes that's true. The tempi problem has not luckily plagued most of the performances I have heard but it really saps the music of its original energy if it is played lethargically slow. Indy's Very First Adventure was a enlightening example of this. The slow performance sounded like the orchestra was swimming through tar as the saying around here goes

As far as live performances go, I feel that the Far and Away suite, at least as performed at Tanglewood 2002, suffers from this tempo problem. It became quite the chore to sit through, much to my dismay.

[King Mark 3,631]

The few Williams pieces I heard live sounded more awesome than on the c.d.

[mark_rayen 0]

Jane Eyre works! It was like a kind of three-movement sinfionetta (slow-fast-slow). Does anyone know if there exists a recording of it?

[King Mark 3,631]

It exists on c.d. (Pops Brittania)

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I remember "The Chamber of Secrets" live sounding exactly like the album version.

[Maxxie 1]

The Raider's March seems to work okay live.

[Datameister 2,044]

I attended JW's Hollywood Bowl concert a few years back, and with the unfortunate exception of the customary light speed interpretation of Jurassic Park, everything translated quite well to the live setting. Quite well.

[John Crichton 4]

I've always been happy with the pieces I've heard live.

Now when it comes to actual scores I always prefer the original version to any kind of re-recording.

[Maxxie 1]

I attended JW's Hollywood Bowl concert a few years back, and with the unfortunate exception of the customary light speed interpretation of Jurassic Park, everything translated quite well to the live setting. Quite well.

Interesting point there re: JP Datameister.

I also noticed on The Lost World soundtrack that JW had upped the tempo on the finale track. Anyone know why? Also, all concerts I've heard since seem to play the theme as quick as possible, why?

The only true version of the theme is from the JP OST!

Now when it comes to actual scores I always prefer the original version to any kind of re-recording.

Ditto.

[Datameister 2,044]

Interesting point there re: JP Datameister. I also noticed on The Lost World soundtrack that JW had upped the tempo on the finale track. Anyone know why? Also, all concerts I've heard since seem to play the theme as quick as possible, why? The only true version of the theme is from the JP OST!

Seriously! The only performance I've heard that takes the theme at the proper tempo is the original. It's quite sad...it sounds so incredibly cheesy and dumb when sped up like that, and so gorgeous when taken slowly like it's supposed to be. I've heard a rumor that someone alleged Williams had stolen the theme from them, and so now it has to be performed at a faster tempo to avoid copyright infringement...this seems highly unlikely to me, but I suppose nothing's impossible.

[King Mark 3,631]

What I mean is that hearing the Raider's March and the Star Wars theme live loud and clear and in perfect sound quality is almost overwhelming compared to other classical pieces played in the same concert

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

Anyone else feel they're just too technically demanding for live performance, even more so than most classical works, and by extension aren't as good?

The Potter suite is demanding, but when I heard it performed by the RSO Wien, it was top notch. In general, live performances have the potential to convey an energy that's nearly impossible to represent on CD. Even slightly flawed live performances (apparently, the best orchestras have a hard time hitting the brass notes in Goldsmith's Trek theme) can outshine a generally flawless studio recording. And when you get a really good orchestra, which isn't too nervous (the RSO delivered an excellent, though not completely clean, performance of Korngold's Robin Hood duel - at film speed. The rehearsal was flawless, and "live" enough to outshine any recording I've heard of it), things can get really good.

[King Mark 3,631]

yeah ,you hear overtones and stuff that you can't hear on the c.d. Williams music really seems "shiny"

[Maxxie 1]

Apparently, the best orchestras have a hard time hitting the brass notes in Goldsmith's Trek theme

That's understandable!

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

The only true version of the theme is from the JP OST!

But Williams did not conduct Jurassic Park. Maybe the faster version is his 'original vision'?

[King Mark 3,631]

Of course he conducted JP

[Maxxie 1]

Interesting point there re: JP Datameister. I also noticed on The Lost World soundtrack that JW had upped the tempo on the finale track. Anyone know why? Also, all concerts I've heard since seem to play the theme as quick as possible, why? The only true version of the theme is from the JP OST!

Seriously! The only performance I've heard that takes the theme at the proper tempo is the original. It's quite sad...it sounds so incredibly cheesy and dumb when sped up like that, and so gorgeous when taken slowly like it's supposed to be. I've heard a rumor that someone alleged Williams had stolen the theme from them, and so now it has to be performed at a faster tempo to avoid copyright infringement...this seems highly unlikely to me, but I suppose nothing's impossible.

You're absolutely right! It sounds.....erm.....I dunno.....silly (but I don't want to open that can of worms in this thread! ).

It's as if the orchestra thinks, "right chaps, let's get this over with as fast as we can so we can go on to the next piece!"

[King Mark 3,631]

But Maxxie, you should like the re-recordings better than the original since you like your music sped up

Unless your referring to the original c.d. sped up 4% as the perfect performance

[Hlao-roo 389]

The only true version of the theme is from the JP OST!

But Williams did not conduct Jurassic Park. Maybe the faster version is his 'original vision'?

It's the product of a more mature conducting voice.

[Datameister 2,044]

But Williams did not conduct Jurassic Park. Maybe the faster version is his 'original vision'?

Doesn't matter who conducted it originally - Williams still wrote the piece to fit specific cue points in the film. The conductor's job would have been to make it stick to those cue points, which would have meant sticking to the tempo it was originally written for. In this case, that was the slower and much nicer tempo heard in the first film.

It's the product of a more mature conducting voice.

I'm feeling unsophisticated again.

[Maxxie 1]

But Maxxie, you should like the re-recordings better than the original since you like your music sped up

Quite true, but not so fast that you barely get the chance to hear it!

[John Crichton 4]

(apparently, the best orchestras have a hard time hitting the brass notes in Goldsmith's Trek theme)

Our amateur orchestra in Austin did a damn fine job.

[Hlao-roo 389]

(apparently, the best orchestras have a hard time hitting the brass notes in Goldsmith's Trek theme)

Our amateur orchestra in Austin did a damn fine job.

It's Texas -- what do you expect?

[John Crichton 4]

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Of course he conducted JP

Didn't Artie Kane conduct most of it?

[King Mark 3,631]

I doubt it's most of it, and I doubt it's important cues like Journey to the Island and the concert versions cues .

[Henry B 50]

Of course he conducted JP

Didn't Artie Kane conduct most of it?

Yes, he did. Williams fell ill during the scoring sessions.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

Well I suppose the two possible explanations for the JP theme tempo are:

1. Artie Kane messed it up

2. Williams just preferred the faster version in hindsight.

[King Mark 3,631]

I'm sure Williams was still right there even in the remote possibility he didn;t conduct it

[Maxxie 1]

I'm sure I read somewhere that Williams deliberately made the "Theme From Jurassic Park" slow and graceful, as befitting the Dinosaurs it's meant for?

[King Mark 3,631]

Well this whole thread is based on rumors and heresay

[Maxxie 1]

Williams just preferred the faster version in hindsight.

I don't know why, but for some reason I just can't imagine that being the case.

Having said that, Don Davis uses the faster tempo in JP3 too..........

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

The TLW CD end credits is the most played or re-recorded version of JP music. (theme from Jurassic Park + Island theme + finale of T-Rex Rescue)

And all i have heard have the faster tempo, so i think that williams prefers the faster tempo in this particular composition, (as oposed to other pieces where he slows down, like the Throne Room)

Furthermore, i think this arrangement was composed after JP, and Williams wanted to record (and release) it, that's why its on the TLW CD (Where it doesnt fit at all) and it is neither used in the movie.

Just like the Throne room Concert version released in ROTS, a concert arragemen he had never recorded with the LSO and did not appear on any official soundtrack of the movies.

[Datameister 2,044]

Well I suppose the two possible explanations for the JP theme tempo are:

1. Artie Kane messed it up

2. Williams just preferred the faster version in hindsight.

It couldn't have been 1. If it was written to be performed at a faster tempo, it was supposed to take up a shorter amount of time, which means it wouldn't have fit the scene.

Also, KM, there was very little concert version material to record for the first film. Just the introduction to "Theme from Jurassic Park," really, since the rest of the track is the exact same recording as the one done for the film itself. Similarly, "End Credits" is the same recording heard as part of "Welcome to Jurassic Park."

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

(apparently, the best orchestras have a hard time hitting the brass notes in Goldsmith's Trek theme)

Our amateur orchestra in Austin did a damn fine job.

Well the LSO messed it up every time. The local RSO actually beat them in that regard.

[Bowie 45]

^ Anyone got a recording of the actual end credits music from the film? I love how the TLW "Concert Suite" (the timpani/energetic piece) is fleshed out -- even moreso than a few of the live recording versions of the theme I've heard.

Of course he conducted JP

Didn't Artie Kane conduct most of it?

Yes, he did. Williams fell ill during the scoring sessions.

Williams fell ill in 1993? Before he took a year or so break and returned with Nixon and supposedly a new era of compositional style with it?

Hmm... interesting

[Hlao-roo 389]

^ Anyone got a recording of the actual end credits music from the film? I love how the TLW "Concert Suite" (the timpani/energetic piece) is fleshed out -- even moreso than a few of the live recording versions of the theme I've heard.

Of course he conducted JP

Didn't Artie Kane conduct most of it?

Yes, he did. Williams fell ill during the scoring sessions.

Williams fell ill in 1993? Before he took a year or so break and returned with Nixon and supposedly a new era of compositional style with it?

Hmm... interesting

Patrick Doyle's music has never been the same following his recovery from leukemia.

[scissorhands 16]

Williams suffered from a back injury at the time of the JP recording sessions, but he conducted Schindler's List only a few months later. He didn't take any break, as he wrote the Cello Concerto and other stuff before Sabrina.

[chinaismine 64]

Yes, that's what I thought I remembered, that Williams couldn't conduct due to back problems.

[QMM 4]

Escapades for Saxophone works fantastically live. When I saw it in Chicago two years ago they had Dan Higgins, and special guests for vibes and bass.

[mahler3 478]

Yes, that's what I thought I remembered, that Williams couldn't conduct due to back problems.

Also the reason why he doesn't like to travel long distances apparently - hence no hope of another LSO concert!!!

^ Anyone got a recording of the actual end credits music from the film? I love how the TLW "Concert Suite" (the timpani/energetic piece) is fleshed out -- even moreso than a few of the live recording versions of the theme I've heard.

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