Rate "Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban"!

[JoeinAR 1,949]

POA isn't even John's best HP score let alone his best period

POA isn't even John's best HP score let alone his best period

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Sorcerer's Stone is way too overbearing and repetitive for my tastes.

[John Crichton 4]

POA isn't even John's best HP score let alone his best period

The man's right.

No one's dismissing PoA, I just don't see any way that it could be called anything close to Williams' best work.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

Not my fault you're blind as a bat!

But then I myself can never see the awesomeness of E.T. or Close Encounters. They're simply good scores...not that great. Nor do I care much for E.T. flying over the moon, in fact the best track out of that is with the beginning forest scene.

A matter of taste I suppose.

[Bowie 45]

RARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Sigh. Say what you will about the way I get my point across (which seems to be misinterpreted for being angry when it isn't intended to be)... at least I actually make thoughtful, detailed contributions to the subject matter; I hardly ever see any substantial contributions from you that don't involve frothing at the mouth at people politics.

[John Crichton 4]

Not my fault you're blind as a bat!

But then I myself can never see the awesomeness of E.T. or Close Encounters. They're simply good scores...not that great. Nor do I care much for E.T. flying over the moon, in fact the best track out of that is with the beginning forest scene.

A matter of taste I suppose.

I find ET a tad overrated as well, but not as much as Jurassic Park (which I think we agree on).

[Ollie 1,059]

I think you're both nuts.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I find ET a tad overrated as well, but not as much as Jurassic Park (which I think we agree on).

Ok so we're similar in a lot of ways, but very different in the most critical ways (John Williams' best score). That makes us enemies. Prepare to die.

Sigh. Say what you will about the way I get my point across (which seems to be misinterpreted for being angry when it isn't intended to be)... at least I actually make thoughtful, detailed contributions to the subject matter; I hardly ever see any substantial contributions from you that don't involve frothing at the mouth at people politics.

You're an ass.

[Henry B 50]

Prisoner of Azkaban Williams' best score? I dunno. A damn good score? Of course! I'm not interested in absolute rankings and all that. Suffice it to say PoA has a unique magic to it and you can really tell Williams was pushing his limits writing it, not to mention having a lot of fun, e.g. "Knight Bus."

RARRRRRGGGHHHH!!!!

Sigh. Say what you will about the way I get my point across (which seems to be misinterpreted for being angry when it isn't intended to be)... at least I actually make thoughtful, detailed contributions to the subject matter; I hardly ever see any substantial contributions from you that don't involve frothing at the mouth at people politics.

I'm not the one talking about group masturbation and checking for mental disability. My contribution to this matter is that I don't think there's any reason to get so worked up over definitions. Words mean different things to different people. Remember that several hundred years ago, communication was slow, older styles were entirely forgotten and incredible composers escaped notice (e.g. J.S. Bach). Is it fair to expect an orderly and consistent vocabulary from such times?

[Bowie 45]

In case you haven't gotten the point, I don't get nor have I gotten "worked up," unless engaging in an argument that doesn't go out if its way to be jovial and use smilies and shit constitutes "getting so worked up".

[Henry B 50]

If you say so.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Not my fault you're blind as a bat!

But then I myself can never see the awesomeness of E.T. or Close Encounters. They're simply good scores...not that great. Nor do I care much for E.T. flying over the moon, in fact the best track out of that is with the beginning forest scene.

A matter of taste I suppose.

F*ck you and the horse you rode in on!

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm with Blume, but then what do I know? Munich is my favorite JW score.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

But does favourite = best?

[Bowie 45]

If you say so.

Man, bloody hell! What THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM!?!?! You f... you damn well make me soo... just kidding.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Poltergeist is better than E.T.

[Henry B 50]

If you say so.

Man, bloody hell! What THE HELL IS YOUR PROBLEM!?!?! You f... you damn well make me soo... just kidding.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

But does favourite = best?

No, sometimes they're the same though.

[Josh500 1,615]

YES - if the melody/waltz RECURS, it will be classified as "one of the Harry Potter themes". This is what irks me about terminology; people are just bewildered at the concept of the possibility that, yes, something subtle like presenting a melody in two distinct places in the film instead of just one, could change the classification of that melody. But it's true! Music, especially for an ongoing work, is living, meaning that how you classify parts of it is never set in stone until all is said and done.

The problem with the definition you linked to, Marian, is that it attempted to summarize a whole bunch of different meanings of the word "theme" into a single sentence, utterly defeating the purpose of a definition, IMHO. In the instance we're talking about, it's the "small musical piece" part. Aunt Marge's Waltz is a small musical piece within Azkaban... and rightly so according to his definition, this single musical piece must have "given rise to some variation" -- but of course, it hasn't/wasn't... that piece was never varied.

So, in other words, at the moment, the melody in Aunt Marge's Waltz is indeed a theme BUT ONLY IN TERMS OF THE SINGLE CUE ITSELF. In terms of the entire Azkaban film, or 8-film heptology, however, the melody is NOT a "theme"... this is exactly the same as a SONATA FORM, where the FORM is the ENTIRETY of the SONATA FORM (correct?) and the term "theme" is given to usually two musical phrases or ideas that are developed and recapitulated, and conversely is exactly the same as a SYMPHONIC SONATA, where the full 2-4 MOVEMENTS is the ENTIRETY of the SONATA (correct?), the term "theme" being almost irrelevant when considering the whole multi-movement Sonata.

And yes, as SOON as Williams or another composer brings back the music/melody in another form, it will suddenly be classified as a "theme" in the broad sense of applying to the whole Harry Potter artwork.

But not only all of this, it also DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE to attribute to a one-off musical cue -- clearly imbued with a certain hilarious characteristic depicting that scene in particular -- the same status/musical classification as Hedwig's Theme, for instance, a very easily identifiable melody that has been iterated somewhere in the order of 50-100 times in the 6 films, the fact it was deliberately given the title "... Theme" notwithstanding!

Yes, exactly. Thank you, Bowie. I agree 100%.

I wanted to say that myself, but then thought... ahhh what the heck. I don't have the energy for that!

PoA IS a very good score, but far from the best, not even if you only count the scores from the new millenium...

You have to remember that we're talking about themes in FILM SCORES. Which has a slightly different meaning.

We're talking about themes in music. A film score is still a piece of music. It doesn't have to be a leitmotif to be called a theme (which is all I've been saying all along).

No, that's called "false logic."

Film music is music, too, of course. But the term "theme" applied generally to music doesn't necesarily have to be the same in meaning as applied to "film music." English is a very flexible language.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

F*ck you and the horse you rode in on!

Suck it!

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Film music is music, too, of course. But the term "theme" applied generally to music doesn't necesarily have to be the same in meaning as applied to "film music." English is a very flexible language.

I really don't want to drag this out even longer... but first and foremost, to me at least, film music is music. And regardless of whether we're talking about a piano sonata, a symphony, a cantata, a ballet, an opera, a film score or a pop song, a theme is a theme to me. The Jawa theme appears twice in the Star Wars score, once as its own cue and once as a brief variation of more or less the same cue, for which it's obviously been conceived, and I've often seen it referred to as a theme before. The Aunt Marge melody appears once, throughout a cue, and was obviously conceived as a recogniseable melody for this cue. I don't see how repeating the whole thing later on would change the nature of it (or imagine that Williams had repeated it later on, and scrapped that cue? In fact, doesn't it appear during the end credits - is it not a theme only because Williams was too lazy to adapt the melodies into an end credits suite and instead just copied and pasted the original cues?)

Marge's music is certainly more identifiable than at least one of Voldemort's themes, so if you want to go by identifiability (I wouldn't), it still works in this case, in my opinion.

Or what about "Olympic Fanfare and Theme"? That's a single cue, isn't it?

[Bowie 45]

Or what about "Olympic Fanfare and Theme"? That's a single cue, isn't it?

You really are missing the point. "Single cue"?

It's the "WHOLE THING".

The whole opus of Olympic work for 1984 was that one piece of music, so the term "theme" applies to everything within that piece, as it is the whole work. In fact, this is a great example of sonata form, because the theme is exposed, developed and recapitulated. Not only that, and I'm sure you didn't intend on this, but Williams wrote upwards of 10 musical bumpers to be played leading to and from commercial breaks and the sort; they all developed and restated the theme (well, in truth, 'themes' -- the broad melody and the new fanfare).

HAD John Williams written a full album of Olympic music, and Olympic Fanfare & Theme was the second or third track, or something, and the theme was never re-iterated, it wouldn't be a theme, and he wouldn't have called it a theme.

Again, "Theme" implies "iteration across the entirety of the work IN QUESTION."

Aunt Marge's Waltz has a theme (well, themes) in TERMS OF THE ENTIRETY OF THE PIECE, AUNT MARGE'S WALTZ, yes.

Prisoner of Azkaban has a theme -- well, themes -- in TERMS OF THE ENTIRETY OF THE FILM (SCORE), and Aunt Marge's Waltz is not one of them.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

My god Bowie, you've managed to...make absolutely no sense what so ever.

Let's look at the definition of theme:

1. a subject of discourse, discussion, meditation, or composition; topic: The need for world peace was the theme of the meeting.

2. a unifying or dominant idea, motif, etc., as in a work of art.

3. a short, informal essay, esp. a school composition.

4. Music.

a. a principal melodic subject in a musical composition.

b. a short melodic subject from which variations are developed.

5. Grammar. the element common to all or most of the forms of an inflectional paradigm, often consisting of a root with certain formative elements or modifications. Compare stem 1 (def. 16).

6. Linguistics. topic (def. 4).

7. Also, thema. an administrative division of the Byzantine Empire.

Sounds more like what everyone else is saying than what you're saying.

So stop with the "well relatively speaking...it's a theme in terms of blah blah", you lose. You're wrong.

Get over it.

Move on.

Stop wasting our time and Ricard and Andreas' bandwidth.

[Bowie 45]

My god Bowie, you've managed to...make absolutely no sense what so ever.

Let's look at the definition of theme:

[snip]

Sounds more like what everyone else is saying than what you're saying.

So stop with the "well relatively speaking...it's a theme in terms of blah blah", you lose. You're wrong.

Get over it.

Move on.

Stop wasting our time and Ricard and Andreas' bandwidth.

I'm right! You're wrong!

Get over it!

Move on!

LOL. Wow. I just wanted to quote this in case you changed it. Let the record of JWFAN show that Blumenkohl thinks he can tell me what to do, and thinks that stifling a valid argument -- about music on a music-based DISCUSSION board, no less -- is either any of his concern, or isn't hypocritically wasting bandwidth. EDIT: 910 thoughtless, bandwidth-wasting posts, I presume, versus 4020 thoroughly insightful, well-worded posts of discussion, I take it?

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

This ain't about me brother. This about a certain individual not having enough balls to admit he is wrong and then proceeding to beat a dead semantics horse slowly watering down his argument to "well if you look at it this way". Pathetic.

So let's not make this about Blumenkohl. Blumenkohl is laughing at this debate, sipping a glass of Blanc de Blancs, and watching Office Space with his other half.

I presume, versus 4020 thoroughly insightful, well-worded posts of discussion, I take it?

Feel free to read through them at your own leisure. Your mind will probably fry at the end with some of my sheer idiocy. Occasionally I have been known to make a thoughtful post. I think I made one thread that was thoughtful. It was about what you think about when listening to music or something.

[Bowie 45]

This about a certain individual not having enough balls to admit he is wrong and then proceeding to beat a dead semantics horse slowly watering down his argument to "well if you look at it this way". Pathetic. [snip]

You're exactly right, this is about semantics. The point arose when Incanus began to discuss the "themes of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban". He said Whomping Willow was a theme, etc etc., then the discussion centred on the Waltz.

The definitions you all have given, which use ambiguous words themselves, centre on words such as "principal melodic subject... unifying idea... dominant idea".

Now, simply apply that definition to "themes of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban":

Q: What are the dominant principal melodic subjects or ideas of Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban?

A: Hedwig's Theme, Double Trouble theme, A Window to the Past (sometimes called Harry's Theme), and maybe Buckbeak's Theme because the character it represents dominates the middle part of the film and returns to play a huge role in the events of the third act (the time travel, the rescue of Sirius).

But yes, you can also apply that definition to "themes of Aunt Marge's Waltz":

Q: What are the dominant principal melodic subjects or ideas of Aunt Marge's Waltz?

A: That quirky waltzing character as illustrated by the oboe and strings; and the horn theme which sees most of the thematic repetition and development.

You're telling me that this argument is baseless, and just about me trying to avoid saying I'm wrong? Please.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

You're tell me that this argument is baseless, and just about me trying to avoid saying I'm wrong? Please.

Cite me a single credible published source that agrees with your definition of a theme. Until then, you're simply dragging this out and trying various means to avoid admitting your error of even pursuing this to begin with.

[Josh500 1,615]

Film music is music, too, of course. But the term "theme" applied generally to music doesn't necesarily have to be the same in meaning as applied to "film music." English is a very flexible language.

I really don't want to drag this out even longer... but first and foremost, to me at least, film music is music. And regardless of whether we're talking about a piano sonata, a symphony, a cantata, a ballet, an opera, a film score or a pop song, a theme is a theme to me. The Jawa theme appears twice in the Star Wars score, once as its own cue and once as a brief variation of more or less the same cue, for which it's obviously been conceived, and I've often seen it referred to as a theme before. The Aunt Marge melody appears once, throughout a cue, and was obviously conceived as a recogniseable melody for this cue. I don't see how repeating the whole thing later on would change the nature of it (or imagine that Williams had repeated it later on, and scrapped that cue? In fact, doesn't it appear during the end credits - is it not a theme only because Williams was too lazy to adapt the melodies into an end credits suite and instead just copied and pasted the original cues?)

Marge's music is certainly more identifiable than at least one of Voldemort's themes, so if you want to go by identifiability (I wouldn't), it still works in this case, in my opinion.

Or what about "Olympic Fanfare and Theme"? That's a single cue, isn't it?

The various melodies heard in Aunt Marge's Waltz ARE themes, if you only consider this one piece. (What you keep saying.)

However, "Aunt Marge's Waltz" is NOT a theme in the PoA score. (What I keep saying.)

So in a way, we are both right. But I get the feeling that you're disagreeing with me on the latter as well, in which case you'd be dead wrong. I don't know how much clearer I can make this for you.

[Bowie 45]

My god Josh, you've managed to...make absolutely no sense what so ever.

Stop with the "well relatively speaking...it's a theme in terms of blah blah", you lose. You're wrong.

Get over it.

Move on.

Stop wasting our time and Ricard and Andreas' bandwidth.

[Josh500 1,615]

Hahahah.

I let the others think whatever they want. I know I am right in this case.

And if I happen to be wrong, then I admit it.

[Bowie 45]

And if I happen to be wrong, then I admit it.

Cite me a single credible published source that agrees with your definition of a theme. Until then, you're simply dragging this out and trying various means to avoid admitting your error of even pursuing this to begin with.

[Josh500 1,615]

And if I happen to be wrong, then I admit it.

Cite me a single credible published source that agrees with your definition of a theme. Until then, you're simply dragging this out and trying various means to avoid admitting your error of even pursuing this to begin with.

Do I need to cite a source?

JW is my grandfather. I asked him.

[Henry B 50]

Oh my goodness what an overcomplicated argument. Could both definitions be correct? Remember that not everything written by classical composers (here I am thinking Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, etc.) is a self-contained work. How about incidental music for plays? Operas? Ballets? Say a piece of incidental music, like an overture, is written in sonata form. There's an A theme, a B theme, a development, a recapitulation, all that good stuff. In the context of this single piece there are themes. Is this suddenly not so when we view the work as part of an entire score? (This is assuming a structure devoid of leitmotif.) Yes, I think theme is just a word, not a way of life. Of course Hedwig's theme and A Window to the Past are themes in Prisoner of Azkaban, not necessarily because they are developed in a classical sense but because they are leitmotives. "Aunt Marge's Waltz" contains a theme in a different sense. Can't we just accept a liberal use of the word? Or is it really that confusing? "OMG somebody told me such and such a cue contained a theme, but I scoured the entire score and couldn't find a trace of its reappearance, I WAS DECEIVED!!"

[Marian Schedenig 8,207]

Thanks Henry, that's exactly what I've been trying to say all along.

So in a way, we are both right. But I get the feeling that you're disagreeing with me on the latter as well, in which case you'd be dead wrong.

You are right, I disagree on this. I don't see why adding music to a cue or series of cues (e.g. a suite) would remove the "theme" status from a theme. Also see below.

Or what about "Olympic Fanfare and Theme"? That's a single cue, isn't it?

You really are missing the point. "Single cue"?

It's the "WHOLE THING".

So... if Williams were to put all his concert version of his various Olympic compositions into a suite... then "Olympic Theme" would no longer be a theme?

The whole opus of Olympic work for 1984 was that one piece of music, so the term "theme" applies to everything within that piece, as it is the whole work. In fact, this is a great example of sonata form, because the theme is exposed, developed and recapitulated.

And the theme in Aunt Marge's Waltz is recapitulated and varied throughout the whole piece (the cue), too.

Not only that, and I'm sure you didn't intend on this, but Williams wrote upwards of 10 musical bumpers to be played leading to and from commercial breaks and the sort; they all developed and restated the theme (well, in truth, 'themes' -- the broad melody and the new fanfare).

I knew this would come up. But I think we can assume it would be called "Olympic Theme" regardless of whether Williams had written bumpers using it. Also, they're not part of the composition called "Olympic Fanfare and Theme" - unlikely though it is, Williams might have 3 hours of variations on the Marge material sitting in his drawer, but I don't think this would change the theme status of it either way.

Again, "Theme" implies "iteration across the entirety of the work IN QUESTION."

This is simply wrong. Look at Beethoven symphonies. Mozart symphonies. Schubert symphonies. Dvorak symphonies. Full of themes - and in very few cases do they appear in more than a quarter of the work.

Aunt Marge's Waltz has a theme (well, themes) in TERMS OF THE ENTIRETY OF THE PIECE, AUNT MARGE'S WALTZ, yes.

Prisoner of Azkaban has a theme -- well, themes -- in TERMS OF THE ENTIRETY OF THE FILM (SCORE), and Aunt Marge's Waltz is not one of them.

So none of Williams' themes is a theme in the entirety of his works? The Star Wars Theme isn't a theme in the entirety of the Empire Strikes Back suite? If whoever composes the music for the final Potter movies would drop Hedwig's theme, it would cease to be a theme in the entirety of the Potter movies?

[Bowie 45]

My god Marian, you've managed to...make absolutely no sense what so ever.

Stop with the "Aunt Marge's Waltz is the equivalent to one of the themes from a Beethoven symphony blah blah", you lose. You're wrong.

Get over it.

Move on.

Stop wasting our time and Ricard and Andreas' bandwidth.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yeah, we get it. Enough.

[Romão 2,274]

In Portugal we call this sort of thing "discussing the gender of angels"

[John Crichton 4]

Reminds me of a friend I had in college. I used to say that he'd argue with God about the meaning of life. And think he won.

[Jeshopk 8]

Oh my goodness what an overcomplicated argument. Could both definitions be correct? Remember that not everything written by classical composers (here I am thinking Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, etc.) is a self-contained work. How about incidental music for plays? Operas? Ballets? Say a piece of incidental music, like an overture, is written in sonata form. There's an A theme, a B theme, a development, a recapitulation, all that good stuff. In the context of this single piece there are themes. Is this suddenly not so when we view the work as part of an entire score? (This is assuming a structure devoid of leitmotif.) Yes, I think theme is just a word, not a way of life. Of course Hedwig's theme and A Window to the Past are themes in Prisoner of Azkaban, not necessarily because they are developed in a classical sense but because they are leitmotives. "Aunt Marge's Waltz" contains a theme in a different sense. Can't we just accept a liberal use of the word? Or is it really that confusing? "OMG somebody told me such and such a cue contained a theme, but I scoured the entire score and couldn't find a trace of its reappearance, I WAS DECEIVED!!"

How about the fact that many of the best symphonies were composed as 4 seperate pieces, and then just slapped together later because they were sort of compatible and the composer wanted to get a symphony performed instead of one movement at a time? How about the fact that composing has always been really f'in hard thing to do as a profession except for the lucky, and I emphasize LUCKY few.

In Portugal we call this sort of thing "discussing the gender of angels"

Very good phrase. I hope it has a slant of disrespect to it

[Bowie 45]

In Portugal we call this sort of thing "discussing the gender of angels"

So what you're saying is, you think angels are... male?

[Josh500 1,615]

In Portugal we call this sort of thing "discussing the gender of angels"

Now, this piece of nugget might be the most useful information in this thread...

(BTW, you speak European Portuguese, right? I am a bit conversant in Brazilian Portuguese... not much difference, but I like the BP better! )

[Bowie 45]

... tres prados de trige para tres chigres tristes, or something?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

... tres prados de trige para tres chigres tristes, or something?

That seems to try to be Spanish...

"Tres tristes tigres comían trigo en un trigal."

I think we have the same angels saying in Spain too.

[Henry B 50]

Oh my goodness what an overcomplicated argument. Could both definitions be correct? Remember that not everything written by classical composers (here I am thinking Renaissance, Baroque, Classical, Romantic, etc.) is a self-contained work. How about incidental music for plays? Operas? Ballets? Say a piece of incidental music, like an overture, is written in sonata form. There's an A theme, a B theme, a development, a recapitulation, all that good stuff. In the context of this single piece there are themes. Is this suddenly not so when we view the work as part of an entire score? (This is assuming a structure devoid of leitmotif.) Yes, I think theme is just a word, not a way of life. Of course Hedwig's theme and A Window to the Past are themes in Prisoner of Azkaban, not necessarily because they are developed in a classical sense but because they are leitmotives. "Aunt Marge's Waltz" contains a theme in a different sense. Can't we just accept a liberal use of the word? Or is it really that confusing? "OMG somebody told me such and such a cue contained a theme, but I scoured the entire score and couldn't find a trace of its reappearance, I WAS DECEIVED!!"

How about the fact that many of the best symphonies were composed as 4 seperate pieces, and then just slapped together later because they were sort of compatible and the composer wanted to get a symphony performed instead of one movement at a time? How about the fact that composing has always been really f'in hard thing to do as a profession except for the lucky, and I emphasize LUCKY few.

I'm not sure how that relates to the current discussion... ? Well, yes, some symphonies were cobbled together from different projects, and John Williams used an early version of the Jawa theme for Lex Luthor and the Esplanade Overture for Monsignor. Oh shit, did I go there!? Yeah, I think most of the best composers are "guilty" of re-purposing their own music for completely different projects. "Who cares?" I say. Just because a piece of music isn't composed as part of a complete musical score doesn't mean it can't fit into one. Round pegs into oval holes and square pegs into hexagonal holes and god knows what else. Some of the best music came together like Frankenstein's monster. Except not cruel and murderous like the monster. But the poor thing was misunderstood, and I think some music is too.

[Romão 2,274]

In Portugal we call this sort of thing "discussing the gender of angels"

Now, this piece of nugget might be the most useful information in this thread...

(BTW, you speak European Portuguese, right? I am a bit conversant in Brazilian Portuguese... not much difference, but I like the BP better! )

Yeah, European Portuguese. It still is pretty much thesame as BP, except for the accent

[Samiraaa 0]

In Portugal we call this sort of thing "discussing the gender of angels"

Now, this piece of nugget might be the most useful information in this thread...

(BTW, you speak European Portuguese, right? I am a bit conversant in Brazilian Portuguese... not much difference, but I like the BP better! )

Yeah, European Portuguese. It still is pretty much thesame as BP, except for the accent

Some parts of the vocabulary and grammar differ too

Portugal: Estou a trabalhar

Brazil: Estou trabalhando

[i'm working]

Portugal: O comboio está aqui

Brazil: O trem está aqui

[The train is here]

Portugal: És bonita

Brazil: Você é bonita

[You're pretty]

How do I know? I'm half Portuguese.

You already know this, but I felt like sharing with the rest who don't know much about Portuguese. ^^

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

OK who are better?

Dutch or Portugese?

[Josh500 1,615]

OK rewatched this movie today, and definitely one of JW's masterpieces. I wouldn't go so far as to say that it's better than PS, though. The music is just different. I suspect that's why so many are raving about it...

Some of the best cues are unreleased, but that doesn't mean the album is poorly assembled. It's more like almost EVERY cue is great, so the ones included (obviously the highlights) as well as the ones missing on the OS album, which are mostly underscore.

Among the unreleased cues, I especially liked (I didn't know all the titles):

Grave Danger: Low strings and then the threat motif o­n harpsichord again, as Mr. Weasley warns Harry about Black.

A Word Of Caution: Foreboding music as Dumbledore warns of the Dementors of Azkaban. Then a light statement of the DT (Double Trouble) theme for his words of hope.

Harry's Vow: A sympathetic, string-based cue for Harry uncovering more shocking secrets about Sirius Black. After his vow to kill Black, we have a brief

choral segment that anticipates the upcoming sequence (and might actually BE the next cue ? see below).

Confusing Confrontation: Williams music for this scene blends so well with the creaks and groans of the Shrieking Shack that it?s hard to tell where the music starts or ends (the sound design of this film is excellent)! The exact length of this cue is suspect, but it?s is mostly atmospheric ? the drama coming from the performances is so effective, it doesn?t need much help.

Meddling With Time: Continuation of the time travel material, while leading into Saving Buckbeak.

Sirius Black's Escape: One of the score's best unreleased cues. joyous, pulse-pounding excitement, and featuring the second and final appearance of Buckbeak's theme.

http://www.jwfan.com/index.php?option=com_...view&id=427

How do I know? I'm half Portuguese.

So you're half Portuguese, half Dutch?

That's an interesting combination!

OK who are better?

Dutch or Portugese?

Brazilian.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

Sirius Blacks escape is dynamic. I love watching that section of the movie just for the music, another key to heaven for John, who has many.

[Josh500 1,615]

Sirius Blacks escape is dynamic. I love watching that section of the movie just for the music, another key to heaven for John, who has many.

Yeah, this IS great, but actually I'm not SO interested in this as in the other missing cues I mentioned. This is pretty much a reprise of Buckbeak's Flight, with some additional music and difference in orchestration.

I REALLY want the music in Shrieking Shack and the whole of Saving Buckbeak...