.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,359]

Either The Scouring of the Shire, or The Barrow Downs.

[KK 3,307]

Some good options there, but I'd love to have heard what he'd have come up with for the Scouring of the Shire. How he would have twisted the Shire themes along with the Isengard theme (possibly) would have been quite interesting.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

The Ballet of Tom Bombadil.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Imrahil, son of Prince Adrahil II!

He has the look of one with elvish blood!

[gkgyver 1,645]

The last option.

I can't believe you forgot the journey to the stone of Erech, with the dead army following the group lead by Aragorn, and the villagers fleeing at its sight, screaming "The king of the dead!"

I want to hear Shore's take on THAT epic bit of creepyness, not Jackson's Braindead adaption with some ghost city.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[chuck 154]

Any part that has Radagast in it. It would be a nice change of pace to have another wizard the mix.

[ST-321 4]

I suppose that it would be out of line to say Ungoliant eating all light from The Silmarillion.

[Incanus 5,716]

Oh what unshot scene wouldn't I want to see scored by Shore? It is difficult to choose from so many great ones listed above and dozens not listed here, moments big and small.

But I think the gathering of lords of Gondor to defend Minas Tirith would offer a good opporturnity for great music.

[indy4 155]

Wow...the only options I even remember are Tom Bombadil and the scouring of the Shire.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The Old Forest, followed closely by The Barrow Downs and The Grey Company.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

Probably Imrahil, but if we're talking scenes, then it would have to be the unfurling of the old Gondor banner on the flagship at the Pelennor Fields. That would have presented Shore a ripe scene for scoring (Gondor, Fourth Age Gondor, Minas Tirith - take your pick).

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Too many possibilities to choose a top priority hastily! One of the first things that came to mind was the scene mentioned by gkgyver above. I think the whole Host of the Dead business is a disaster in the film. With a subtler portrayal of the Dead, the journey from Erech to Pelargir could have been a great musical opportunity.

...all that were left fled to the hills at the rumour of the coming of the King of the Dead. But the next day there came no dawn, and the Grey Company passed on into the darkness of the Storm of Mordor and were lost to mortal sight; but the Dead followed them.

Perhaps something along these lines (the first four minutes or so):

[Jay 37,373]

Remind me: What's the Prince Imrahil stuff all about?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He is a minor character in ROTK a kinsman of Denethor who takes over command of the city

[Wojo 2,453]

He was a prince of Dol Amroth who aided the defense of Minas Tirith. His actions in the book were mostly given to Gandalf in the movie.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He is said to have an Elvish air about him.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Too many possibilities to choose a top priority hastily! One of the first things that came to mind was the scene mentioned by gkgyver above. I think the whole Host of the Dead business is a disaster in the film. With a subtler portrayal of the Dead, the journey from Erech to Pelargir could have been a great musical opportunity.

...all that were left fled to the hills at the rumour of the coming of the King of the Dead. But the next day there came no dawn, and the Grey Company passed on into the darkness of the Storm of Mordor and were lost to mortal sight; but the Dead followed them.

Perhaps something along these lines (the first four minutes or so):

I don't have any problem with the sequence in the film, but extending it and including the full Grey Company would be a fantastic excuse for some really atmospheric music, and cinema.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Too many possibilities to choose a top priority hastily! One of the first things that came to mind was the scene mentioned by gkgyver above. I think the whole Host of the Dead business is a disaster in the film. With a subtler portrayal of the Dead, the journey from Erech to Pelargir could have been a great musical opportunity.

...all that were left fled to the hills at the rumour of the coming of the King of the Dead. But the next day there came no dawn, and the Grey Company passed on into the darkness of the Storm of Mordor and were lost to mortal sight; but the Dead followed them.

Perhaps something along these lines (the first four minutes or so):

Or maybe something like this.

[Uni 306]

Didn't realize how old this thread was. Wow.

Most of the options didn't really appeal, simply because they would've been more of the same. (Would Glorfindel's presence, for instance, have inspired Shore to take the elven thing in an entirely new direction? I doubt it.) In the end, I went with the Scouring of the Shire as well, since that's the part that I was most disappointed about missing from the story on screen. A close second might be the Barrow Downs.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Beregrond man!

[gkgyver 1,645]

The Old Forest/Bombadil.

Simply because we have enough Shire variations.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Too many possibilities to choose a top priority hastily! One of the first things that came to mind was the scene mentioned by gkgyver above. I think the whole Host of the Dead business is a disaster in the film. With a subtler portrayal of the Dead, the journey from Erech to Pelargir could have been a great musical opportunity.

...all that were left fled to the hills at the rumour of the coming of the King of the Dead. But the next day there came no dawn, and the Grey Company passed on into the darkness of the Storm of Mordor and were lost to mortal sight; but the Dead followed them.

Perhaps something along these lines (the first four minutes or so):

Or maybe something like this.

Heh, I was going to suggest some Dutllieux.

Beregrond man!

He was in ROTK! But robbed of his real characterization... or any, really.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Or maybe something like this...

Yeah, if we're going in that sort of direction all the better!

I don't have any problem with the sequence in the film, but extending it and including the full Grey Company would be a fantastic excuse for some really atmospheric music, and cinema.

For me, although I'm not especially fond of the "Paths of the Dead" sequence, or of the appearance of the Dead, or of the fact that they're brought directly to Minas Tirith, these are relatively minor complaints in the scheme of things; it becomes a disaster when they arrive at the Pelennor Fields and whizz around sweeping the baddies up like a cosmic vacuum cleaner. I think I could even forget the narrative problems this poses, and the silly look of it, but the jovial, celebratory mood of the scene (for which Howard Shore's music - though not necessarily Howard Shore - is partly responsible) is a real deal-breaker for me.

[Incanus 5,716]

I don't have any problem with the sequence in the film, but extending it and including the full Grey Company would be a fantastic excuse for some really atmospheric music, and cinema.

For me, although I'm not especially fond of the "Paths of the Dead" sequence, or of the appearance of the Dead, or of the fact that they're brought directly to Minas Tirith, these are relatively minor complaints in the scheme of things; it becomes a disaster when they arrive at the Pelennor Fields and whizz around sweeping the baddies up like a cosmic vacuum cleaner. I think I could even forget the narrative problems this poses, and the silly look of it, but the jovial, celebratory mood of the scene (for which Howard Shore's music - though not necessarily Howard Shore - is partly responsible) is a real deal-breaker for me.

Well it is the turn of the tide moment after all and includes the Fellowship members. It should be a bit celebtatory really.

But the way the Army of the Dead is dealt with in the films is really awkward. It is a device that Tolkien uses both symbolically and as a narrative tool to enhance Aragorn's character and his importance to winning the war but PJ makes it just a big deus ex machina to clean up the battle. Also it is super fast so no more need for more battle shots.

But in the true spirit of optimization one could ask, why didn't Aragorn retain the services of this army against Mordor when he marched to the Black Gate? Was there a "killing the living quota" that had been fulfilled at Pelargir or what?

The Grey Company as nice as it would have been to see them there simply is not enough time to justify their appearance in the film. But of course Shore could have written some nice brooding ranger-y stuff for them.

[Barnald 365]

It's a shame really, because you know if they were doing these films now they'd have split ROTK into two, and that way we could have got Imrahil, Beregond, The Grey Company, Ghan Buri Ghan and most other things...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The problem is that the film ROTK actually consists of that book, and a really size-able chunk of TTT.

A consequence of making Helms Deep the focus of the second film, far more then it is in the book.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

I'm not generally fond of having musical themes associated with specific characters, so I don't regret the lack of a Glorfindel theme, or an Imrahil theme per se. But it would be interesting to have the Gondorian palette expanded with, say, a Dol Amroth theme. I already think of the theme which most people call "Éowyn's Theme" (in fairness, because Éowyn is always around when it plays) as a secondary anthem for Rohan and, since it has obvious associations with "Gondor", always listed it under the label "Calenardhon" (the ancient northern province of Gondor which was later granted to the Rohirrim) when studying the score. So it would be nice to have other variations of the main Gondor theme associated with other regions of the country.

Well it is the turn of the tide moment after all and includes the Fellowship members. It should be a bit celebtatory really.

It's the joviality of the celebration that I don't like. It seems both to trivialise the battle and to make the army of slimers look even sillier. Also, I find the statement of the Fellowship motif heard when Aragorn jumps out of the boat to be one of the most wince inducing moments in the entire score (right up there with the other statement of that motif when Sam shows up at Shelob's Lair).

But in the true spirit of optimization one could ask, why didn't Aragorn retain the services of this army against Mordor when he marched to the Black Gate? Was there a "killing the living quota" that had been fulfilled at Pelargir or what?

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant in referring to the narrative problems arising from this depiction of the Dead. In the book, one doesn't get the sense that the Dead Men are either omnipotent or infinitely indebted to Isildur's heir. In the film, it looks as though it would be a piece of cake for them to glide over to Mordor and sweep up the rest of Sauron's army, yet no reason for their dismissal is mentioned...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Wojo 2,453]

Didn't Aragorn tell the Army he felt their oath was fulfilled, after the King of the Dead pointed out as much? Yes, it's a damn shame any man or elf needed to die during the entire War of the Ring with an invincible ghost army waiting to be used, but that's what he wrote. PJ hated the Army of the Dead but kept it in to avoid pissing off the book readers.

[Incanus 5,716]

Didn't Aragorn tell the Army he felt their oath was fulfilled, after the King of the Dead pointed out as much? Yes, it's a damn shame any man or elf needed to die during the entire War of the Ring with an invincible ghost army waiting to be used, but that's what he wrote. PJ hated the Army of the Dead but kept it in to avoid pissing off the book readers.

Actually the fear the Army of the Dead evokes drives living insane and perhaps they are able to sap their life force but mostly it is pure dread that is enough to defeat any enemy they go against. While reading the novel one could ask why didn't Aragorn bring the army to the battlefield to end the war if he basically could hold them to their oath, perhaps for an indefinite time. But as such devices are far too powerful and far too deus ex machina-like they are used with special limitations set by the characters and the world itself. Same goes for the eagles as Tolkien himself was well aware. We don't know if Aragorn could have led the dead against Mordor because he was a man of honor and released them after their considerable help in defeating the corsair of Umbar. It is not just convenient weapon to mass destroy enemies but again element that reinforces Aragorn's role as rightful king and of course shows how great a man he is for not demanding something beyond what he considers is fair from the dead. But the point is that we shouldn't expect this story to go for the engineer style optimization just because it is possible as most stories would not be worth telling if all things and advantages were stretched to their maximum potential by all involved. Epics, myths and legends just do not work that way.

Musically Shore presents to my ears a rather roiling march that doesn't necessarily celebrate them and the music for the concurrent Gothmog and Eowyn moment is tense enough not to completely turn the moment to its head. It is a turn of the tide really and yes the ghosts ex machina are annoying but there isn't time for another grim struggle at this moment. Legolas' swashbuckle is ridiculous as a scene but I love that Shore opens up the score for such big heroism once in a while.

Well it is the turn of the tide moment after all and includes the Fellowship members. It should be a bit celebtatory really.

It's the joviality of the celebration that I don't like. It seems both to trivialise the battle and to make the army of slimers look even sillier. Also, I find the statement of the Fellowship motif heard when Aragorn jumps out of the boat to be one of the most wince inducing moments in the entire score (right up there with the other statement of that motif when Sam shows up at Shelob's Lair).

I think Shore gives in to the cinematic conventions at PJs behest at times with these films. I think such heroic "I have come to save the day" moments stand a bit outside the style of the rest of the writing but I still love to hear those moments that unabashedly celebrate our heroes and their actions and enhance their presence or turn of events. Sometimes bold to the point of being obtrusive? Yes. But does it add that extra charge that makes you cheer for them? You betcha!

I'm not generally fond of having musical themes associated with specific characters, so I don't regret the lack of a Glorfindel theme, or an Imrahil theme per se. But it would be interesting to have the Gondorian palette expanded with, say, a Dol Amroth theme. I already think of the theme which most people call "Éowyn's Theme" (in fairness, because Éowyn is always around when it plays) as a secondary anthem for Rohan and, since it has obvious associations with "Gondor", always listed it under the label "Calenardhon" (the ancient northern province of Gondor which was later granted to the Rohirrim) when studying the score. So it would be nice to have other variations of the main Gondor theme associated with other regions of the country.

Éowyn's Theme(s) are mostly called that because that is how Shore conceived them. It is an enormous stretch to call them Calenardhon when that is clearly not what the composer intended them to significy leitmotifically. Music of course is open to interpretation but your train of thought goes a bit outside intentions of the music itself. Just saying.

Undoubtedly Éowyn and Aragorn material might share some Rohan/Gondor connection because of the two characters. Shore's approach to character themes is by and large intuitive and he doesn't assign too many in LotR (or the Hobbit) as most themes revolve around cultures. Only a couple of characters seem to have their own specific themes in the musical cultural framework. Most others are covered by their culture specific leitmotifs.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Sometimes bold to the point of being obtrusive? Yes. But does it add that extra charge that makes you cheer for them? You betcha!

Not me! For me, those bits completely dissipate the charge and make me cringe...

Éowyn's Theme(s) are mostly called that because that is how Shore conceived them. It is an enormous stretch to call them Calenardhon when that is clearly not what the composer intended them to significy leitmotifically. Music of course is open to interpretation but your train of thought goes a bit outside intentions of the music itself. Just saying.

Sure, it's beyond any doubt that Shore intended that theme to be associated specifically with Éowyn, and I didn't mean to suggest that I thought I'd sussed out its real meaning (although I do think it highly likely that the Gondorian associations were deliberate). I just prefer the label "Calenardhon" for it, and think it suits well both in regard to the theme in itself and its relationships with other themes; I think I've also got a lot more out of it (while watching the film) with that association in mind.

[Incanus 5,716]

Sometimes bold to the point of being obtrusive? Yes. But does it add that extra charge that makes you cheer for them? You betcha!

Not me! For me, those bits completely dissipate the charge and make me cringe...

Éowyn's Theme(s) are mostly called that because that is how Shore conceived them. It is an enormous stretch to call them Calenardhon when that is clearly not what the composer intended them to significy leitmotifically. Music of course is open to interpretation but your train of thought goes a bit outside intentions of the music itself. Just saying.

Sure, it's beyond any doubt that Shore intended that theme to be associated specifically with Éowyn, and I didn't mean to suggest that I thought I'd sussed out its real meaning (although I do think it highly likely that the Gondorian associations were deliberate). I just prefer the label "Calenardhon" for it, and think it suits well both in regard to the theme in itself and its relationships with other themes; I think I've also got a lot more out of it (while watching the film) with that association in mind.

Just as long as you put in brackets if need be the "official" name of the themes you have a special name for and I am a-okay. Helps if I know what we are talking about.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

*yawn*

[Incanus 5,716]

Thank you for that insightful expression of boredom Stefan.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

When is the next score coming out? So this will get interesting again.

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Not as good as "Burp!" though.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was EPIC!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Lothlórien - I think I'd like to have seen more of the Fellowship's journey through Lothlórien, with musical accompaniment less eerie and oppressive than the main Lothlórien theme.

[Jay 37,373]

When is the next score coming out? So this will get interesting again.

The next Hobbit score?

The AUJ OST was released on Tuesday December 11th (Mon Dec 10 internationally) before the film's Friday Dec 14th release.

The DOS OST was released on Tuesday December 10th (Mon Dec 9 internationally) before that film's Friday Dec 13th release.

So since BOFA has a Wednesday, December 17th release date planned, I'd assume the OST will come out Tuesday December 16th (Monday the 15th internationally)

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Oppressive? WTF? What's next? You're going to tell us that the Shire theme is too dark?

But surely you're jesting. I'm not saying Mordor levels of oppression, but it certainly does have a threatening vibe to it. As it's supposed to, because the Lothlórien sequence is presented so that first time viewers won't know whether the Fellowship are genuinely safe there or not.

[Incanus 5,716]

When is the next score coming out? So this will get interesting again.

November/December 2014 probably. So we just have to sit quietly and listen to the 5 previous scores in silence before the next one so we can talk again!

Oppressive? WTF? What's next? You're going to tell us that the Shire theme is too dark?

But surely you're jesting. I'm not saying Mordor levels of oppression, but it certainly does have a threatening vibe to it. As it's supposed to, because the Lothlórien sequence is presented so that first time viewers won't know whether the Fellowship are genuinely safe there or not.

Yes it is intentional that the music is otherworldly and slightly ambivalent so I can't blame Shore for following the director's wishes. I find that the Eastern stylings so prevalent in this Elvish music are mesmerizing on that track. I was taken aback at first by Shore's solution of using these scales but then I slowly came around and now think it is some of his best music for the trilogy.

Come to think of it, The Woodland Realm material is the same way. Very dark and brooding for Elven music for the most part. We hear nary a hint of that beautiful choral rendition that was part of the AUJ prologue but rather more exotic less choral and more orchestral settings of the material which sound often quite grim or dangerous (aptly because of the dwarves' predicament) but we luckily have the Beyond the Forest to give us taste of what this material sounds when not harrassing dwarves or brooding over The Nature of Evil.