Thomas Newman's Skyfall

[gkgyver 1,647]

Subtlety is no virtue in a Bond score, Barry was absolutely right.

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

Newman's conducting style looks very ... rousing.

Hah! He is moving his midriff more than his hand. Maybe he's flirting with the female viola players.

Well, with his looks, he might have a change.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Change is right.

[TheHouseholdCat 4]

I can tell, we're running out of steam here...

I still have a couple of days until I can see the film. I'm curious how it will have turned out. Even David Arnold (who is not seen as an authority in any way on this forum, but I may mention it anyway) says that you shouldn't judge the score before you've seen how it works in the film. But well...

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

Change is right.

Bloody Newman! Chance.

[Wycket 36]

Yes, but it doesn't have something like Only Myself To Blame. And I prefer TWINE's setpieces over CR's.

Barry only did two Bond scores with a secondary theme like Only Myself To Blame. He almost exclusively used the main title as a romantic theme throughout the score. Arnold composed a secondary theme which ran throughout his next two scores. I can't see how anyone can argue that Casino Royale didn't have a proper Barry type score.

While we're at it, Die Another Day had the "I will return" theme throughout that Arnold wasn't allowed to develop into a song so one could argue DAD's stature as well. Though I have no intention of defending that film for any reason.

[Bryant Burnette 691]

I think Arnold has the right approach; he simply isn't as talented as John Barry. Which, let's be fair, is hardly something that ought to be held against him; Barry is one of the all-time best at what he did.

But Arnold has done a good job every movie, and I think that all things considered, he's the right man for the job. I hope he's back for 24. I also hope the producers will just let him do what he wants song-wise, because he's written (or co-written) some very good songs for the series, and I'd like to see that continue.

[Darth Crossfader 577]

Film composers never seem to make big movements with their hands, except John Williams and the other old composers.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Yes, but it doesn't have something like Only Myself To Blame. And I prefer TWINE's setpieces over CR's.

Barry only did two Bond scores with a secondary theme like Only Myself To Blame. He almost exclusively used the main title as a romantic theme throughout the score. Arnold composed a secondary theme which ran throughout his next two scores. I can't see how anyone can argue that Casino Royale didn't have a proper Barry type score.

While we're at it, Die Another Day had the "I will return" theme throughout that Arnold wasn't allowed to develop into a song so one could argue DAD's stature as well. Though I have no intention of defending that film for any reason.

I didn't say CR wasn't a Barry type score, I said I consider TWINE higher because it had a second song, and both songs are by Arnold himself.As you pointed out, DAD had Madonna, and Arnold's song was scratched, so that doesn't count, as nobody ever heard it.

[Salacius 7]

.

[TheHouseholdCat 4]

OK, now after having seen the film - I still haven't actually realized that I did finally see it - I have to say: The score had some great moments and now that I am listening to it again, it's starting to grow on me.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

While I understand Newman using that oriental sounding instrumentation in the parts of the score set in Turkey, China etc....

He also uses it for London and Scotland.

Its a solid score though. Certainly not something written on auto-pilot. Newman knew that doing a Bond score is a big thing, and that it would be compared to some really great and classic scores. You can hear he put the work in.

Newman's use of the Bond Theme is strong and fun. Not sure why he depended on Arnold's "The Name Is Bond...James Bond" arrangement from Casino Royale whenever a really lengthy rendition of the theme was needed.

I guess nobody does it better...no body still alive that is.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Its a solid score though. Certainly not something written on auto-pilot. Newman knew that doing a Bond score is a big thing, and that it would be compared to some really great and classic scores. You can hear he put the work in.

If he knew it would be compared to some classic scores, why didn't he write a main theme? That one puzzles me to no end.

Blumenkohl already said it best; you hear two or three notes that you think could lead to something great, but Newman never follows through and just abandons the idea.

Newman's use of the Bond Theme is strong and fun. Not sure why he depended on Arnold's "The Name Is Bond...James Bond" arrangement from Casino Royale whenever a really lengthy rendition of the theme was needed.

He was asked to use it probably.

Maybe they found there wasn't enough Bond theme in it.

For a 50th anniversary movie, I'd say the Bond theme is underused. Newman only teases it with the opening notes of the swinging part, for example in The Bloody Shot, but he never actually uses it before the gunbarrel. Listening to the album, I found that hugely dissapointing.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

Are you saying Newman had no idea it would be compared to the other Bond scores?

Really Gyver.... You do talk rubbish sometimes.

Big main themes simply are not in fashion right now. It's atmosphere and rhythm over thematic integrity. It's hardly Coolman's fault.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Snoozeman, Steef. Snoozeman. Coolman was the miscarried Newman brother. He never made it.

[TheHouseholdCat 4]

While I understand Newman using that oriental sounding instrumentation in the parts of the score set in Turkey, China etc....

He also uses it for London and Scotland.

That's because he likes to include non-traditional elements in his scores, even if it may be irritating if you're not used to it. He thinks more in terms of color than what associations come along. It may probably be not that appropriate to use those instruments in an English setting in the film, but there he pulled back a bit. It's not that ethnic...

Are you saying Newman had no idea it would be compared to the other Bond scores?

Really Gyver.... You do talk rubbish sometimes.

Big main themes simply are not in fashion right now. It's atmosphere and rhythm over thematic integrity. It's hardly Coolman's fault.

He's also not that much into melody. He's always been more into rhythms and colors. He could have written a theme, but maybe he wasn't asked to do that.

[Incanus 5,801]

Thomas Newman interviewed on the Skyfall score at Film Music Magazine

[Admiral Holdo 16]

My physical copy of the CD's here; booklet's nothing special, regrettably little of Newman's quirky instruments. NO PROCESSED SAZ, WTF?!?

*cough* anyway... I'm enjoying the music. Your opinion of this lives or dies on whether you enjoy textural scoring or not. Normally I'm more of a melody guy, but... I like it.

That said, I picked up on what seems to be a theme for Severine, in that track as well as Modigliani. There's also a four-note motif running throughout it (heard most clearly in New Digs). And then there's the Bond theme of course, which is handled splendidly.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

It's a solid score

[BLUMENKOHL 1,081]

Agreed. I'd actually argue this score is being a little underrated by many.

And you all know my stance on Snoozeman, so I'm not saying it because I want to kiss his boring sleepy ass.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Are you saying Newman had no idea it would be compared to the other Bond scores?

Really Gyver.... You do talk rubbish sometimes.

Big main themes simply are not in fashion right now. It's atmosphere and rhythm over thematic integrity. It's hardly Coolman's fault.

I am not saying that.

What I am saying is that Newman knew he would be compared. And he proceeded to not follow that tradition. Which makes me think "Why?"

I know big main themes are not in fashion now. But that doesn't mean a Bond movie has to follow suit. It almost never did. It followed its own rules, and rightfully so because history gave them the right to.

Bond scores that followed the musical trend of the times do sound dated today. And even they had the Bond ingredients, and at the very least a great main theme.

Looking at all the boringness that is written these days, a Bond score with a lush main theme would be quite fresh.

He's also not that much into melody. He's always been more into rhythms and colors. He could have written a theme, but maybe he wasn't asked to do that.

Not asked to do that? I don't think you would have to ask for example John Williams to write a theme for a new Star Wars movie. You would think it is a given.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

What I am saying is that Newman knew he would be compared. And he proceeded to not follow that tradition. Which makes me think "Why?"

Because he doesn't answer to people on film music message boards. He answered to Mendes and the Broccolis.

[gkgyver 1,647]

So did David Arnold.

[publicist 4,647]

And Arnold's scoring was not altogether different. There are tons of nondescript suspense cues and stitched-together action cues in CR and QOS. Newman had, to my old ears, more style and sense of orchestration, but if you define BOND! music by how often a 6-note riff from the song turns up, regardless of how the rest is done, i whole heartedly agree.

[crocodile 8,520]

I'm not totally unconditionally in love with the score, but it's rather good. If there is a regret to be had it would be that it seems to be a sort of discrepancy between two different styles - a more traditional Bond and Newman's own. Only occassionally he makes an attempt to merge the two, like in the brilliant The Bloody Shit. But I must say for this particular story all the ghostly Newmanisms for very well, especially for the finale sequence.

Karol

[BloodBoal 7,541]

I'm not totally unconditionally in love with the score, but it's rather good. If there is a regret to be had it would be that it seems to be a sort of discrepancy between two different styles - a more traditional Bond and Newman's own. Only occassionally he makes an attempt to merge the two, like in the brilliant The Bloody Shit.

Hehehe...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

So did David Arnold.

Whistle me the Main Theme to QoS or Die Another Day?

[publicist 4,647]

The Bloody Shit

Karol

Yeah, that's what too much alcohol does to your innards...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

Especially if you go for spicy food after drinking!

[publicist 4,647]

So did David Arnold.

Whistle me the Main Theme to QoS or Die Another Day?

Forget it. He's hellbent on disliking TN and will pile up ill-chosen counter arguments till the cows come home.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

Typical German mentality if you ask m....ooohhh...

[publicist 4,647]

That's for sure...

[gkgyver 1,647]

And Arnold's scoring was not altogether different. There are tons of nondescript suspense cues and stitched-together action cues in CR and QOS. Newman had, to my old ears, more style and sense of orchestration, but if you define BOND! music by how often a 6-note riff from the song turns up, regardless of how the rest is done, i whole heartedly agree.

While there is a lot of, like you said, nondescript suspense music in a score like Casino Royale, it also has pieces like The End Of An Aston Martin, Miami International and Solange. Skyfall sounds like someone had pulled all the good stuff from a David Arnold score, and left the boring stuff in.

You do know that Bond scores were usually defined by the title song? If you take away the use of the title song(s) in previous Bond scores, there usually wasn't much left. Like in Skyfall.

So did David Arnold.

Whistle me the Main Theme to QoS or Die Another Day?

No problem actually.

In Die Another Day, Arnold's main theme is all over the place. You can't play three cues in a row without hearing it.

QoS was less prominent, but it still had an awesome theme for Quatum, it used the title song a few times, and it had the "No Good About Goodbyes" theme, which alone radiates more class than any motif Newman used.

As far as me hating Newman is concerned: kiss my butt.

Applying criticism to a score does not equal hate. Typical black and white thinking. And look who's talking, Mr. Publicist, someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about Bond anyway.

[TheHouseholdCat 4]

He's also not that much into melody. He's always been more into rhythms and colors. He could have written a theme, but maybe he wasn't asked to do that.

Not asked to do that? I don't think you would have to ask for example John Williams to write a theme for a new Star Wars movie. You would think it is a given.

"Because he doesn't answer to people on film music message boards. He answered to Mendes and the Broccolis."

[gkgyver 1,647]

So you tell me they told Newman specifically not to write a theme? You would think they know their legacy better.

[Koray Savas 2,254]

Received the CD today. I think it's funny that on the back it says, "This album does not contain a recording by the artist Adele."

[Jay 39,429]

Haven't you ever read the back of the Casino Royale OST?

[Koray Savas 2,254]

My brother bought it. Haven't touched it since I first imported it however many years ago.

[publicist 4,647]

As far as me hating Newman is concerned: kiss my butt.

Applying criticism to a score does not equal hate. Typical black and white thinking. And look who's talking, Mr. Publicist, someone who doesn't give a rat's ass about Bond anyway.

Come on, i just pointed out some obvious contradictions and after having seen the movie, i think even more that you delude yourself with all this. The final half is generic blockbuster action scoring, but before, Newman has some elegant pointers which kind of movie he scored - it just doesn't matter THAT much that the song melody isn't more often integrated, especially if the last Arnold scores are your benchmark. It's just not that much of a difference and i found Newman's orchestration actually more accomplished.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

Interview with Thomas Coolman about the scoring of Skyfall.

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=10217

[crocodile 8,520]

What I find interesting is that he mentions Broccoli's having some "issues". He doesn't come across as very sure about the process, does he?

Karol

[Incanus 5,801]

Interview with Thomas Coolman about the scoring of Skyfall.

http://www.filmmusicmag.com/?p=10217

Stefan I mentioned this already on this very page!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

Well if that's your attitude then forget it!

[Joni Wiljami 1,212]

Repetition is the mother of learning.

[Incanus 5,801]

Repetition is the mother of learning.

Don't you gang up on me with the Dutchman hornist!

But people have been embroiled in a furious argument on the merits of this score so most other matters have gone unnoticed, including my original link. Perhaps people took note of Stefan's.

[gkgyver 1,647]

While I wasn’t a rabid fan of James Bond movies when growing up, I really loved watching them. Now there’s obviously a huge amount of expectation in terms of what a “James Bond score” is. Everybody has an opinion on Bond, and his music. But I really didn’t feel an obligation to meet up to these expectations. Or if I was going to defy them, I wanted to defy them in a way that was pleasing and compelling as opposed to making people feel that I was doing something different for it’s own sake.

It’s not like I set out to study the past Bond scores. I watched some of the movies, and had general notes and impressions about how the music was operating. But after that, I didn’t want to be too studious about it all. I thought that would be intimidating, and suppressing any ability I might have to be creative in my own right.

In other words, the process of creating a score similar to the past seemed too laborous and intimidating, so I stuck with my own voice.

I don't want this guy anywhere near a Bond movie ever again. He has no clue what he's doing when it comes to this series.

[Wojo 2,456]

Repetition is the mother of learning.

Isn't the motto of the serial killer?

[Koray Savas 2,254]

While I wasn’t a rabid fan of James Bond movies when growing up, I really loved watching them. Now there’s obviously a huge amount of expectation in terms of what a “James Bond score” is. Everybody has an opinion on Bond, and his music. But I really didn’t feel an obligation to meet up to these expectations. Or if I was going to defy them, I wanted to defy them in a way that was pleasing and compelling as opposed to making people feel that I was doing something different for it’s own sake.

It’s not like I set out to study the past Bond scores. I watched some of the movies, and had general notes and impressions about how the music was operating. But after that, I didn’t want to be too studious about it all. I thought that would be intimidating, and suppressing any ability I might have to be creative in my own right.

In other words, the process of creating a score similar to the past seemed too laborous and intimidating, so I stuck with my own voice.

I don't want this guy anywhere near a Bond movie ever again. He has no clue what he's doing when it comes to this series.

He's saying he didn't want to analyze every Bond score and then forgo his own style to fit in with the series. Newman > Arnold

[gkgyver 1,647]

That's what Arnold did.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,415]

David Arnold Will Return Guyver!