Thomas Newman's Skyfall

[Neimoidian 14]

Hate to use that expression, but this Skyfall preview sounds like Newman on autopilot. If I didn't know they're from the new Bond picture, I could swear these cues come from some other scores of his, like Jarhead. On the other hand I am sure they are going to work well in the picture.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They didn't exactly choose the best tracks for preview there did they? Sounds very uninspiring, even game music-esque - some parts sounded similar to Zimmer's Modern Warfare 2 score. Let's hope they decided to retain the thematic material for the album release.

Yeah I think it's the repetitive drums, lack of timbre change combined with the ever present throb of the guitar/synths in the background. Very, very gamey.

What the hell defines game music, and why is it a bad thing? The comparison to MW2 is ridiculous. That's just Zimmer in his 90s mode.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

The Psycho Pianist seems to know very little about game music.

[The Psycho Pianist 216]

They didn't exactly choose the best tracks for preview there did they? Sounds very uninspiring, even game music-esque - some parts sounded similar to Zimmer's Modern Warfare 2 score. Let's hope they decided to retain the thematic material for the album release.

Yeah I think it's the repetitive drums, lack of timbre change combined with the ever present throb of the guitar/synths in the background. Very, very gamey.

What the hell defines game music, and why is it a bad thing? The comparison to MW2 is ridiculous. That's just Zimmer in his 90s mode.

When I say game music, I mean the kind of music that you would expect to accompany a mission or passage of play. Game music these days is significantly improved obviously however you still expect a film score to sound more lively than something you would hear in a Call of Duty multiplayer mission. Most often these are designed to be very ostinatic and it seems to have become the trend these days to use a bass guitar/low electric mute to sustain a rhythm along with drums. What I'm hearing in the second half of that preview is essentially just that, it contains no clear theme or motif and sounds as though it could be looped indefinitely. You could listen to and comprehend it just as well in the background as you could when listening to it with no distractions.

That said, I think that the previews are just badly chosen. I expect there to be a lot of classic Bond sounds, Newman will almost undoubtedly copy Arnold's imitative style of Barry's brass motifs, although I expect his own stamp just as with any other composer.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

They didn't exactly choose the best tracks for preview there did they? Sounds very uninspiring, even game music-esque - some parts sounded similar to Zimmer's Modern Warfare 2 score. Let's hope they decided to retain the thematic material for the album release.

Yeah I think it's the repetitive drums, lack of timbre change combined with the ever present throb of the guitar/synths in the background. Very, very gamey.

What the hell defines game music, and why is it a bad thing? The comparison to MW2 is ridiculous. That's just Zimmer in his 90s mode.

Angsty teen,

Here's what the hell defines game music:

There's a distinct way game music is constructed these days and that's simply because of the technical limitations imposed by game engines. The music is designed from the get go so that it can be looped easily, faded easily, and/or in more robust video games recorded in layers so that the music can be layered differently to achieve different effects (ambient/tense/action).

For this to work properly the music *has* to be relatively simple in its construction so it can all fit together cohesively. Otherwise dynamic music in a game will sound very bad. So you end up with very safe and very nonspecific music.

This is actually a problem that is created by bigger budgets. A recording of an orchestra is not malleable like a midi orchestra.

- Blume, who is actually researching crafting a solution to this problem right now! Hence the recent threads about things like Emily Howell

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They didn't exactly choose the best tracks for preview there did they? Sounds very uninspiring, even game music-esque - some parts sounded similar to Zimmer's Modern Warfare 2 score. Let's hope they decided to retain the thematic material for the album release.

Yeah I think it's the repetitive drums, lack of timbre change combined with the ever present throb of the guitar/synths in the background. Very, very gamey.

What the hell defines game music, and why is it a bad thing? The comparison to MW2 is ridiculous. That's just Zimmer in his 90s mode.

Angsty teen,

Here's what the hell defines game music:

There's a distinct way game music is constructed these days and that's simply because of the technical limitations imposed by game engines. The music is designed from the get go so that it can be looped easily, faded easily, and/or in more robust video games recorded in layers so that the music can be layered differently to achieve different effects (ambient/tense/action).

For this to work properly the music *has* to be relatively simple in its construction so it can all fit together cohesively. Otherwise dynamic music in a game will sound very bad. So you end up with very safe and very nonspecific music.

This is actually a problem that is created by bigger budgets. A recording of an orchestra is not malleable like a midi orchestra.

- Blume, who is actually researching crafting a solution to this problem right now! Hence the recent threads about things like Emily Howell

Not a teen, and if you think video game scoring is still entirely confined to loops, then I don't know what to say. Henry Buck posted a meaty list of game composers that not only defy traditional game scoring, but are even better than a lot of film scores. You kinda work in that industry, it changed 8 years ago.

Either way, none of this can be deduced from a clip of an action track. The lot of you just love to draw insane conclusions from so little. And before you or Alex or whoever goes off, of course I'm not speaking about the entire industry. Yes there are games that heavily conform to the framework you described. MW2 is an example of confined game scoring because of how the game was developed, Zimmer and team composed suites that could be looped. And they were relentlessly looped, I heard that music endlessly while playing Spec Ops on veteran. But to completely disregard tons of brilliant game scores, paint them in a bad light, and to say Newman's score falls into that category based off a sample, is ridiculous.

[Wycket 36]

That said, I think that the previews are just badly chosen. I expect there to be a lot of classic Bond sounds, Newman will almost undoubtedly copy Arnold's imitative style of Barry's brass motifs, although I expect his own stamp just as with any other composer.

If you watch the short clip they released last week of a bit of the pre-title, you'll see this to be the fact.

[publicist 4,643]

CLIPS:

http://www.amazon.de/James-Bond-Skyfall-Thomas-Newman/dp/B0096233ZW/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1349949848&sr=8-2

[Jay 37,322]

Damn, why do these things always come out when I'm at work and can't listen?

[Incanus 5,713]

Sounds like Newman in urban thriller mode for the most part. The 30 second clips didn't yield truly memorable melodic material and the action music is very angular, rhythmically oriented. Newman mannerisms abound but only a few stylistic hints of old James Bond music.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

I heard a couple of potentially nice gems in there. But most of it sounds...

Snoozy.

Damn, why do these things always come out when I'm at work and can't listen?

What kind of work doesn't allow Amazon or headphones?

[Jay 37,322]

I never really set up a precedent of listening to music through headphones, I have speakers on my desk that play my music all day. if I had headphones on it would be obvious i wasn't working

[Richard Penna 3,676]

You could just let the samples play through for 10 minutes.

A few tracks that seem interesting to me on first listen:

New Digs - has some melody going on within the rhythm.

Brave New World - really dramatic, and I like the use of chords towards the end.

Jellyfish - *love* the piano melody.

Silhouette has some rather interesting brass and strings, but the drums seem to dominate later on - shame.

The Chimera - sounds like it's building to something rather cool.

Skyfall - something very haunting happening here.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I *really* like the strings and brass in Komodo Dragon.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'll have a listen later when I am not restricted to my smartphone speaker. Can't wait.

[alicebrallice 134]

CLIPS:

http://www.amazon.de...49949848&sr=8-2

very tempting but I think I'm gonna wait, actually.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Yes... You know what they say: the longer the waiting, the bigger the disappointement...

[alicebrallice 134]

fool of a boal!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Who the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who reads the other fool's posts?

[Neimoidian 14]

Having heard the samples, I must say it sounds better than I initially expected. My only concern - judging by the 30-sec clips - is that the score doesn's seem to have a solid, memorable theme. We'll see.

[alicebrallice 134]

Who the more foolish: the fool, or the fool who reads the other fool's posts?

the fool, because not only is he the original fool, but he also reads the fool who reads the other fool's posts posts.

[KK 3,307]

So what of the fool who read the both the posts of the original fool and the fool who read the other fool's posts?

[alicebrallice 134]

the unbearable foolception drives him to be the biggest fool of them all.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

He's a fool!

[KK 3,307]

He's a fool!

[gkgyver 1,645]

Okay, listened to these clips.

I'm sorry, did you provide the wrong link? Is there a Bond movie hiding somewhere in there and I can't see it? Judging from these clips, half the cues have nothing happening, and the other half bores the shit out of me with those annoying drum loops without halfway interesting chords or melodies on top.

As soon as I heard the repetoire ethnic scoring in track 1, my toenails curled up.

When I'm already tempted to skip tracks with those 30 seconds previews, what will happen with the full OST?

People used to listen to James Bond scores because they offered something unique. Bold brass, lush melodies, memorable themes, entertainment, a combination of every one of these elements.

Now, can please someone tell me what should make Skyfall unique?

With plenty of good will, you could call one or two moments there "lush".

There is nothing in there I haven't heard in a dozen other spy thrillers. The Bond theme? As far as I can tell, Newman doesn't use it that much, and when he does, he does nothing with it that Arnold hasn't done before, and better.

And what's with the piano? To me, the constant piano tingling in modern scores is just as annoying as the repertoire Remote Control theme on french horn.

When someone uses it fully, to actually play a theme, like James Horner does in Spider-Man to name a recent example, it's fine; but that ambient tingling is grating on my nerves.

If there is one thing James Bond scores never were, then it's boring. They may have been too far away from the formula, like GoldenEye, or they may have been a bit too generic, like License To Kill, but all of them were entertaining. Now, with Skyfall, for the first time in my life, I give a James Bond score the official attribute BORING.

Step aside, Newman junior!

[publicist 4,643]

If there is one thing James Bond scores never were, then it's boring.

I beg to differ. There are enough Bond scores with boring underscore around (not talking songs here). SKYFALL will be the same - some highlights, a lot of underscore recalling ADJUSTMENT BUREAU, Jason-Bourne scores, JNH's SALT and a bit of Arnold.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Examples.

[publicist 4,643]

OCTOPUSSY, MAN WITH THE GOLDEN GUN, FOR YOUR EYES ONLY, DIE ANOTHER DAY, GOLDENEYE...

in a fouler mood, i'd name more.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Pray tell, what would be "boring underscore" in a score like Octopussy? Or Die Another Day? Jesus, Die Another Day is probably the most un-boring score I can imagine.

[publicist 4,643]

It's just your ape love for a generally overrated movie franchise.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Right.

How could I overlook that?

[publicist 4,643]

I ask you. But nice to see myself finally involved in a medium-heated debate over this tiresome series.

Some regrets though. I would have like George Martin in for a few more rounds, as his score has a certain kind of 70's hipness i just dig.

[gkgyver 1,645]

Still, I would like to know what parts of Octopussy you can find boring, considering it's just a 50 minute-something score.

[publicist 4,643]

What parts of OCTOPUSSY apart from some mildly diverting variations on that plushy main theme i could find anything else possibly? It's fucking boring, even by Barry standards.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I see, no love for Barry in general. That explains it.

[publicist 4,643]

Ahh, so close and still so far away.

publicist loves Barry to death for early scores like THE LAST VALLEY, FOLLOW ME, LION IN WINTER, SEANCE ON A WET AFTERNOON, OHMSS, MONTE WALSH, the middle years like FRANCES or BODY HEAT often feature wonderful themes, even later ones like PLAYING BY HEART, ACROSS THE SEA OF TIME are sublime....and songs like GOLDFINGER, DAF or indeed ALL TIME HIGH or MOONRAKER are better than 99,9% of other composer's songs...

BUT....Barry underscore especially for Bond movies was always a mixed blessing. Most of them had snappy moments and two or three good cues (at the most), but often are a collection of all-too-heavy slow and perfunctory suspense cues and those elephantine repeats of the 007 theme.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I think it's maybe a touch too early to judge this score based on the samples; let's see how the whole thing sounds. But from what I've heard, yes, it is boring as hell.

I actually agree that Octopussy is a bore, too. Not bad; just boring. But it does at least have a few decent themes in it, which is more than can be said for GoldenEye; that one is among the most boring scores I have ever heard. It's like listening to a bowl of oatmeal trying to sing, but it can't sing, so it just shoves itself out of the bowl and makes a sort of glopping noise as it lands on the counter.

I know some people like that score, but I can't for the life of me figure out why.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Goldeneye is awesome. The overture defined my childhood.

[gkgyver 1,645]

That's the answer to many unasked questios concerning your taste in music

[publicist 4,643]

Much-maligned as GOLDENEYE is, the interpolation of the Bond-Theme is actually the only interesting, up-to-date version this theme has received after the 90's revival of the series. At least for me, Arnold's bloated Barry-impressions do not cut it (although he has his bright moments like AFRICAN RUNDOWN or NIGHT AT THE OPERA - seldom when he strangles himself with Barry reverence).

[A. A. Ron 1,740]

I suppose parts of Die Another Day and For Your Eyes Only were hit and miss, but I enjoy both of them, almost as much as Octopussy. And I haven't seen any of those three films, so the only thing I've developed an "ape love" for is the music

I gotta admit though that as much as I love Arnold's "Barry reverence," I'd be very interested in a newer-sounding, more "up-to-date" James Bond score.

[BLUMENKOHL 1,068]

You know, James Bond isn't a series I look to for avant-garde artistry any more than I look in a traditional Italian Pizzeria for molecular gastronomy.

It's a recipe for disappointment.

I think Arnold has done a fine job of transitioning the franchise's sound forward into the new century while retaining the warm and almost campy spirit of the franchise's legacy.

From the samples it sounds like Thomas Newman has successfully transitioned the franchise's sound towards Thomas Newman. He hasn't really even done anything new and interesting with the soundscape. Just Newmanized it. Yay?

[Ollie 1,059]

Not only is Goldeneye a bad Bond score, it's just bad music and Serra was just a wrong choice.

Even Tina Turner's song is meh. And Serra didn't have anything to do with it.

For the most part I've been happy with Arnold's contribution to Bond. To me the Bond scores really work when the song is tied into the score. Although Michael Kamen overcame that with his underrated score.

I don't know what to make of Newman' score yet. When I first heard the 3 cues that were available, I thought it sounded like something Arnold would have composed. Adele's song is kinda meh but it beats Madonna's mess and that last Poc from Jack White and Alicia Keyes.

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

GOLDENEYE is a terrific score. Minus a few cues (i.e. Ladies First) it's atmospheric, edgy, moving and does wonders for the film. Screw the cotton-wool-eared philistines who hate it. We have them to blame for David Arnold.

[Score_Fan 36]

I kinda agree, but not. Goldeneye has a few interesting cues (Gunbarrel, Overture, Run, Shoot, and Jump!; Fatal Weakness,That's what keeps you alone, Boris & The Lethal Pen), and a few others. But for the most part, the score is either average-awful.

[Richard Penna 3,676]

I really like Fatal Weakness. Otherwise, it is certainly an underwhelming score for a Bond film, but I wouldn't go as far as to say it's bad scoring. It gives the film a more atmospheric and spacious feel.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I don't think GoldenEye is a bad score; it works fine for the movie.

I do think it is bad music. And it is TERRIBLE Bond music. I listen to all of the Bond scores through, Dr. No to whatever the most recent one is, two or three times a year, and every time I get to GoldenEye I shudder a little bit. That one and Never Say Never Again.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

I'll defend GoldenEye the same way I defend Star Trek IV. A pretty good album from an iconoclastic musician? Certainly. Does it work in its franchise? Eh... that's debatable.

And I'll second what Koray said. The Overture's effing awesome.

[Wycket 36]

While I don't like Serra's score as a whole, it definitely fits the movie like a glove. The movie is mired in a post-war feel and the score really does a good job of encapsulating the era for me. Does the music work as a individual experience? Probably not, but I really can't judge as I saw the movie far before I ever listened to the score independently and for me its hard to separate the two at that point.

As for Newman's score, its about what I expected. The clip released last week of the pre-title worked well so I expect the quieter moments (and consider a near 2.5 hour runtime there will be a lot) to be standard Newman and the action stuff to be a nice Newman/Barry blend. I was skeptical of Newman for the job, basically because I became so enamored with Arnold's two Craig score, but it seems like Newman has held his own.