Howard Shore's An Unexpected Journey (Hobbit Part 1)

[Luke Skywalker 1,805]

"Thorin goes nuts" is more like that Leia-Kenobi situation.

[gkgyver 1,646]

That it is.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,468]

People don't seem to want to copitulate to the simple fact that Shore was likely asked to closely follow the temp-track music for that scene and he did so despite it's destruction of previously established thematic integrity. Luckily we have his original intentions on CD

[gkgyver 1,646]

Well, I am copitulating. Assuming that means accepting.

[Incanus 5,723]

Wouldn't you rather capitulate?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,723]

That joke was an accident just waiting to happen.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 373]

I think you're spot on about the scenes the early bits of 'The White Council' are meant to accompany. I thought the same about the sudden sinister turn and Bilbo catching a glimpse of Alan Lee's mural of Sauron and Isildur. I just hope that rendition of Bilbo's theme isn't replaced by Shire material in the Extended Edition. I'm already irked that the wonderful grand statement of it on 'Axe or Sword?' didn't make it.

[Incanus 5,723]

- About Roast Mutton: I tried to determine which one is the original cue and which one is the revised cue. At first, I thought the OST version featured the original cue, because the Company's theme statement flows far more naturally into the rest of the cue than the one in the SE version... BUT, I can't picture PJ asking Shore to revise the version heard on the OST, while I can totally picture him asking Shore to revise the version heard on the SE. So, what do YOU think?

On a sidenote, I have to say that I know agree with people saying that Shore probably recorded multiple versions of the Company's theme in order for them to be later inserted at various moments in the film. Indeed, the way that theme appears in the SE version of that track sounds quite weird. Like it doesn't belong there.

- Why, god, why did they removed the choral bit at the end of both versions of Roast Mutton? Do you think it was added late in the game?

The SE version sounds like Shore's original take on the scene to me, especially the different middle section that underscores the battle with the Trolls. Shore makes a token rendition of the Misty Mountains theme but focuses more on the heroic leaping figures for the Dwarves and the aggressive action music there. To my ears it sounds like PJ asked him to add more of the Misty Mountains theme into the scene later, the regular OST containing the revised version.

The choral bit at the end of the cue heard in the film was most likely added later in the scoring process, the album version being Shore's original intention.

- About Radagast The Brown extended version, it seems that the additional music is an alternate for the last part of The Hill Of Sorcery. My guess is that the first edit of Radagast's introduction scene showed him finding the dead animals up until him meeting the Necromancer. At least, that's what that track seems to suggest.

This is a bit more puzzling to me. The opening minutes of the cue line up with the film quite well but after about 3 minute mark the score goes out of sync. I am quite confused what the rapid choral chanting is meant to underscore and where do the last 2 minutes of the score belong to. Part of it sounds like the music at the end of the scene when Radagast sees the spiders invading and follows them after the exorcism and before the Bunnies of Doom shot but again the material is lengthier than the scene. As you say the Hill of Sorcery might be where this music originally went to but Radagast scenes might have been radically differently cut in the earlier incarnations of the film.

- Here is my guess regarding how the first two minutes of The White Council extended version are supposed to play with the deleted "Bilbo wandering in Rivendell" scene: first, you'd have Bilbo walking on the bridge (00:00-00:35), then approaching the shards of Narsil, maybe even seeing the painting of Sauron with Isildur (00:36-00:55), then Elrond appears at 00:56, and they have a discussion about the place (0:56-1:33), during which Bilbo probably says he'd like to spend the rest of his days here (1:33-2:25).

- And on unrelated note: I think what people call Gandal's secondary theme (the one that appears for example when Gandalf leaves the Company at the Trollshaws or when he shows up at Goblintown) might actually be a theme for the Istari. I mean, it first appears when Gandalf is talking about Radagast, and the character appears on screen. So I say that's possible. Thoughts?

Your guess about the first 2 minutes of the White Council might actually be pretty close to what it will underscore in the EE cut of the film.

I would see Gandalf's Secondary Theme belonging to the Grey wizard alone more than Istari in general. It is after all Gandalf telling the story of the wizards, storming off and rescuing the company, his activities underscored each time by this rising figure.

[Faleel 5,402]

Is this video viewable?

or is it blocked?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MS4Emq43AXE

[Incanus 5,723]

I can view it just fine.

[gkgyver 1,646]

What is is, precious?

[Faleel 5,402]

Its just my edit of the SECD, OST, and DVD screener: http://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22197&page=62#entry883137

The instant the DVD comes out, I will buy it for sure.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,402]

I think the roast mutton cues were two cues "submitted" for consideration, and bits of both were used, because the version used in the film sounds longer and different in the film than the OST version, but has the Roast Mutton statements from the SE.

[KK 3,307]

I would see Gandalf's Secondary Theme belonging to the Grey wizard alone more than Istari in general. It is after all Gandalf telling the story of the wizards, storming off and rescuing the company, his activities underscored each time by this rising figure.

I'm not 100% convinced of the Istari theme thingy. I just said that because I think it's a possibility. Shore would suddenly go from no theme for Gandalf the Grey in FOTR to two themes for him in The Hobbit? And what is the "purpose" of that second theme, then?

I guess we'll have to wait for the second film to know for sure.

The reason Gandalf has significant thematic material in this film is because Jackson has made Gandalf a more exposed character. One more vulnerable, less perfect and open to the audience...or at least that was the attempt. So it was understandable for Shore to employ a thematic device for that.

As for two themes, well there may not have to be a specific reason for it, but we'll see.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,402]

Question, is it Bagpipes or what in Erebor?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[KK 3,307]

The absence of a White Council theme in this film makes me doubt that we'll hear one in the other films.

And for Gandalf, it'll probably be as you said. In this film, he plays a more diverse role, and seems to be more moody. And there were a couple of statements of the secondary theme when he was pissed at Thorin, or when he rescues the company.

Question, is it Bagpipes or what in Erebor?

They're bagpipes. And bodhrans are drums in case you didn't know, and they may have been used.

[Faleel 5,402]

I want thos unreleased statements of his theme, its my favorite motif in the score (besides Bilbo's adventure, and Plan 9).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,402]

Here follows an exceprt from the upcoming book The Music of the Hobbit films, by Doug Dougie-Doug Adams:

The White Council In Action

Shore blends his unique themes for Rivendell, Lothlorien, Gandalf, and Isengard/Saruman into a action hybrid topped with multiple brass clusters

[tannhauser 101]

The absence of a White Council theme in this film makes me doubt that we'll hear one in the other films.

And for Gandalf, it'll probably be as you said. In this film, he plays a more diverse role, and seems to be more moody. And there were a couple of statements of the secondary theme when he was pissed at Thorin, or when he rescues the company.

Question, is it Bagpipes or what in Erebor?

They're bagpipes. And bodhrans are drums in case you didn't know, and they may have been used.

I thought they were uilleann pipes? Not sure. There's definitely a touch of uilleann pipes in An Unexpected Party.

On another note, I've only just begun to notice radagast's theme popping up here and there in the rest of the score. I never noticed before that the string lines in Warg Scouts (from 0.05 to 0.15) are an exact quote of the zany fiddle material in Radagast the Brown (this motif was cut from both cues in the film). I also like the use of his theme in The White Council, again didn't notice it til today.

Back to Warg Scouts, and this is a bit of a stretch perhaps, but there's a Lydian-mode figure at about 3.18 in Radagast the Brown, a descending G F# D which is reprised at about 0.29 in Warg Scouts. Some sort of connection perhaps?

[Incanus 5,723]

I think it was Jim Ware who first mentioned Radagast's material popping up in the Warg Scouts. In the film it is absent though.

The music in the White Council with those rising and falling string figures is what I believe to be a kind of Shadow Over Mirkwood motif, where the eerie choral melody is accompanied by the Radagast theme derived motif. This music seems to refer to the rising darkness and corruption of Mirkwood and can be heard in Radagast the Brown interspersed with Radagast's agitated musical material as he inspects the dead plants and sick animals. In the White Council this music seems to connect both to Radagast and the Shadow Over Mirkwood.

[KK 3,307]

The absence of a White Council theme in this film makes me doubt that we'll hear one in the other films.

And for Gandalf, it'll probably be as you said. In this film, he plays a more diverse role, and seems to be more moody. And there were a couple of statements of the secondary theme when he was pissed at Thorin, or when he rescues the company.

Question, is it Bagpipes or what in Erebor?

They're bagpipes. And bodhrans are drums in case you didn't know, and they may have been used.

I thought they were uilleann pipes? Not sure. There's definitely a touch of uilleann pipes in An Unexpected Party.

Perhaps. But there seems to be a more bagpipes vibe in "Erebor". Although uilleann pipes are technically bagpipes

On another note, I've only just begun to notice radagast's theme popping up here and there in the rest of the score. I never noticed before that the string lines in Warg Scouts (from 0.05 to 0.15) are an exact quote of the zany fiddle material in Radagast the Brown (this motif was cut from both cues in the film).

Yup, that was a cool statement. It took me a while to differentiate this motif from Bilbo's fussy theme though, due to their similar structure.

I also like the use of his theme in The White Council, again didn't notice it til today.

As Incanus said, I believe that is the "Shadow of Mirkwood" (named by Incanus as well) motif. Representing the rising darkness in Mirkwood.

Back to Warg Scouts, and this is a bit of a stretch perhaps, but there's a Lydian-mode figure at about 3.18 in Radagast the Brown, a descending G F# D which is reprised at about 0.29 in Warg Scouts. Some sort of connection perhaps?

Hmm, interesting you point that out. It'd be cool to see it if that were an intentional connection, but it may just be a coincidence. We'll see when the book comes out I guess.

[Alan 689]

Just found this:

https://www.hdtracks.com/index.php?file=catalogdetail&valbum_code=HD794043164743

Is it safe to assume this is genuine 24bit sound?

Never mind, just found that they convert standard versions to 24bit. Shame!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,402]

Could you give an exact timestamp of where you think the "first two minutes" should end?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,402]

Just a little preview of what can be obtained from the Blu-ray 7.1 mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqyUatJojas

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,468]

I'd guess he mixed the OST CD with a rip of the audio taken out of the film's Blu Ray (for some reason, Faleel never bothers to explain the sources uses for his uploads / youtube videos)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[gkgyver 1,646]

I have zero experience ripping BluRays. Is the audio more sfx-free?

It sounds slightly sped up.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,402]

It sounds slightly sped up.

Its only sped up for Youtube.

And yes, the 7.1 blu-ray mix, yields alot more clean music, than a DVD 5.1 mix (7.1 mixes contain 2 extra rear channels)

[gkgyver 1,646]

I just heard a cleared up version of Thorin vs Azog, and I noticed that some elements that were probably in other channels were gone or very quiet, most noticeably the big drums in the middle.

I assume you speed this up in order to sneak around the youtube filter?

[Faleel 5,402]

Yes, that is one big downfall of using 7.1 channels for fan editing.

so basically you have to mix and match, finding the best balance between instruments, SFX, Ambient SFX, vocal echo, and then do some creative editing, and use mockups to get a sfx free complete score.

I was able to get the film version of Brass Buttons (including the Plan 9 button ), about 90% clean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggyb4skGho8

[Jay 37,468]

I'd guess he mixed the OST CD with a rip of the audio taken out of the film's Blu Ray (for some reason, Faleel never bothers to explain the sources uses for his uploads / youtube videos)

Oh well it sounds very good to me (the beginning anyway). I assumed it was from the CD sent "For Your Consideration" for awards season. Does anyone know what we know about it, I saw someone who said they got one from eBay but heard little about what was on it.

AFAIK, the FYC CD for The Hobbit: AUJ contains tracks identical to ones on the OST.... no extra unreleased music sadly.

[Faleel 5,402]

OK guys, this featurette here: has a cue that is NOT on the soundtrack, and 2 alternates of cues on the OST.

I took the liberty of ripping them and editing them into a tracks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27nBRXbP65Q

I assume you speed this up in order to sneak around the youtube filter?

Yes.

[gkgyver 1,646]

Yes, that is one big downfall of using 7.1 channels for fan editing.

so basically you have to mix and match, finding the best balance between instruments, SFX, Ambient SFX, vocal echo, and then do some creative editing, and use mockups to get a sfx free complete score.

I was able to get the film version of Brass Buttons (including the Plan 9 button ), about 90% clean:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggyb4skGho8

Radagst's Escape music at the end is extremely distracting.

[Faleel 5,402]

I only included that, because there is some music in there that is a true replacement music, but it would be too difficult to edit into Shore's original cue, so I just took the whole tracked "Hobbits Understanding" etc.

[gkgyver 1,646]

I understand that.

It's still annoying.

[Jay 37,468]

Just a little preview of what can be obtained from the Blu-ray 7.1 mix.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YqyUatJojas

Blocked in my country

[Joe Brausam 216]

It worked last night, when I tried, must be fairly recent.

[gkgyver 1,646]

Worked for me as well.