JoeinAR 1,949 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Care to back that up? Because I can count on two fingers how many films tried to 'boldly go', and I don't need fingers to tell you which of those two got good reception. I'd need all my fingers and thumbs to tell you how many ditched that premise and went for conflict-driven stories, with varying critical success. The mowt successful being Wrath of Khan and the least being Nemesis.Rubbish. Btw has there really ever been a Star Trek Story that was not conflict driven whether personal political intimate grand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Most of TNG! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 The movies isn't the only place Star trek existed. There are 28 seasons of the show in existence with more varied and less cinematic stories. Stefan every TNG episode is conflict driven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,556 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I suppose that people actually being nice to each other doesn't make good copy. This is not a citicism of neither Steef, nor Joey, it's just that "bad" sells, love kills, and justice is just ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 917 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Please don't put words into my mouth. I certainly do not remember ever saying that all the films were ripping off Wrath of Khan. What I said was that since Wrath of Khan, the stories have largely been centred around conflict instead of Star Trek's premise of boldly going. Of course there was conflict in the series, but it was not centralised into the story as much as the films do it. Regardless how many of those films had vengeance at the core of their stories, that still requires the story to be conflict-driven.Regardless of whether the 'trek hardcore' like it or not, Abrams and Orci have made films that have had fairly decent critical reception. Granted that Into Darkness did not get as good reception as 2009 did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I do agree that the two new films were "standard" sci-fi action fare for the most part. I did enjoy the first film, and even the second to a lesser extent (although it got lambasted by many Trek fans), but neither truly felt like Star Trek to me. There was no sense of discovery and the characterizations of the crew are off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Both Star Trek (2009) and Into Darkness use elements most famously used in TWOK. But so did Insurrection and Nemesis.Those felt more authentically like Star Trek though, despite their many failings.It's not so much the stories as the style of the last 2 films which make then feel un-Star Trekkie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Maybe I'm being an old fart about this, but I completely understand the need to update the model a bit, so style isn't necessarily a deal breaker, but don't update what is ultimately the heart of mind of the show. Love of science, discovery, philosophy, and morality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Into Darkness did have some interesting questions about morality though.My main issue with it as a film is that, as good as the cast actually is, putting them in a story that takes many elements from an TOS film or episode doesnt work. It just forces the comparisons.Using Khan perse isnt really the problem, but using Khan, and then doing a so-called clever reverse version of the TWOK death scene just does...not...work.We saw it before, there it felt real, in Into Darkness it felt like a gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Did they ever address how Admiral Marcus knew where to find Khan and his followers.? I surmise the Botany Bay was not mentioned in Into Darkness, and in Space Seed, it was a new discovery for Kirk to rediscover something that hadn't been lost that long ago. Are we to assume (retcon perhaps) that only the Nero incursion altered the timeline enough for Section 31 to track down Khan in this timeline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Well, in the new timeline The Enterprise, the 5 year mission ect all happens much sooner. So it probably increased Starfleet's resources etc, meaning they traveled further far sooner, and Khan was found long before he was in the main timeline. The film might have specified details, but I can't recall.Somehow I don't think the writers are all that fussed about explaining why things are different though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 917 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I believe the recent 'Khan' graphic novel addresses some of those issues, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Unread by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 917 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Well, in the film, Khan explains that Starfleet began 'aggressively' searching space and that Khan's ship was found adrift. The graphic novel expands on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Nope, the film explanation works for me. I only saw it once and I only remember Robocop's daughter's undies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Did they ever address how Admiral Marcus knew where to find Khan and his followers.? I surmise the Botany Bay was not mentioned in Into Darkness, and in Space Seed, it was a new discovery for Kirk to rediscover something that hadn't been lost that long ago. Are we to assume (retcon perhaps) that only the Nero incursion altered the timeline enough for Section 31 to track down Khan in this timeline?They explain this in the movie. Khan says that after the Nero situation, Starfleet began exploring deep space more intensely, and found the Botany Bay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Starfleet in the new timeline seems a lot more aggressive and military anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 Probably a natural response from the events in the first film anyway since they got lit up by the much more advanced future Romulan ship, which also inform the plot of the second movie in a way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 That single timeline infraction (OK, two when Spock Prime catches up) is meant to be the catalyst of all that is different about these characters, their technology, and their interactions, albeit stylized for the 2010s instead of the 1960s. For the most part, I buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 26, 2014 Share Posted September 26, 2014 I'm perfectly willing to go along with it. It's like a temporal version of the chaos theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 William Shatner Confirms He Was Contacted About Star Trek 3 And He Would Love To Do It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Why the caps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted September 28, 2014 Share Posted September 28, 2014 Because it's the title of the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 William Shatner has strongly hinted he will appear in the next Star Trek film as Captain Kirk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 But why??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Top 10 Ways Shatner Could Return in Star Trek 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Didn't see the video yet, but time travel is not exactly out of the ordinary in the Star Trek universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 But but...its an alternate timeline! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 God forbid should they actually do a movie with out a member of the original cast this time. I mean I could understand if Nimoy makes a re-appearance....but honest to god if this movie has Shatner (that's not part of a flashback) in it it'll suck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,744 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 It'll suck anyway, that is unless we get some good writers on board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Bring back Nick Meyer! All is forgiven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,744 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 That could be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry B 50 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I think this is silly, and Star Trek should always be a little silly. Plus, doesn't Shatner deserve a chance to bring closure to his Kirk character? His last performance wasn't the strongest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 God forbid should they actually do a movie with out a member of the original cast this time. I mean I could understand if Nimoy makes a re-appearance....but honest to god if this movie has Shatner (that's not part of a flashback) in it it'll suck...Honestly, they should never had included Nimoy to begin with. As result, they have now entered a level of fan-service that should have been altogether avoided.If you're going to reboot, then freaking reboot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I doubt Paramount would have let them do a true, total reboot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Top 10 Ways Shatner Could Return in Star Trek 3The problem isnt finding a way to bring back Shatner. It's a sci-fi show. There are hundreds of ways.The problem is why! Why would you bring him back? What's the point of doing that, other then providing a fan service?Star Trek Generations already is something of a redundant film in "passing the torch" by having Kirk die. Something that didn't need to be done. The ending of Trek 6 is fine.They have an very good new Kirk in Pine.Why why why??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I'm perfectly fine with his appearance in Star Trek (2009). It makes sense for the character in where he was in the TNG era (trying to find common ground with the Romulans). And It's a neat time paradox concept.The Into Darkness cameo was illogical, ironically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Hilary Bray 235 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Picturing Shatner's Kirk shouldering his way into the movie, taking charge and at one point telling the younger Kirk: "Call me Jim" before going off to defeat the latest bad guy.All on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 If they are gonna do this, then just so a flashback to something in Spock prime's history or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wojo 2,453 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Top 10 Ways Shatner Could Return in Star Trek 3 The problem isnt finding a way to bring back Shatner. It's a sci-fi show. There are hundreds of ways. The problem is why! Why would you bring him back? What's the point of doing that, other then providing a fan service? Star Trek Generations already is something of a redundant film in "passing the torch" by having Kirk die. Something that didn't need to be done. The ending of Trek 6 is fine. They have an very good new Kirk in Pine. Why why why???William Shatner pressed Paramount to resurrect the character in the sequel to Star Trek Generations, but the studio had other ideas for how to use the Borg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 Yeah Shatner regretted his death scene quite early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 917 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I wouldn't be surprised if he'd tried approaching the studio to resurrect him in Insurrection and Nemesis in some way as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,556 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 As Carole-Ann Freeling once said: "No more". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 The War Doctor said the same! And James Belushi in The Principal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,556 Posted September 30, 2014 Share Posted September 30, 2014 I want to see the Rockman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koray Savas 2,251 Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Well wasn't he supposed to be in Trek 09 from the beginning, but they cut him out cause he wanted too much money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 ‘Star Trek 3′ Cast Teases ‘Phenomenal’ Story That Will ‘Blow People Away’Uh huh. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted October 13, 2014 Share Posted October 13, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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