Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[crocodile 8,033]

There will always be some music dropped. And, most of the time, for the better. Films don't need that much music, really. We're geting attached to these albums too much, if I'm to be honest. They are meant to tell the same story on a purely musical level, which they do very well.

Having said that, I'll find out tonight.

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wonder if Jason went to the film in his "film music fan" mind set.

[crocodile 8,033]

I've just listened to the SE album for the very first time. Can't say there are a lot of extra bits that I can spot, so it doesn't all that much (maybe except for that very brief spider motif from An Unexpecrted Journey that wasn't on the regular edition). It works very well, Shore returns to a more serious and, as such, more plausible version of Middle-Earth. His music sounds earthy and weathered. In one world - real. A lot is going on in here as well, unlike many lesser mortals say. I think people have a problem with this score due to the sheer length of this album - 125 of score is really a lot to take in by anyone. And it shows, most people have no patience nor time to sit through it and you can't blame them for that. Having said that, it's great for us fans to get such a generous product. I didn't have time to study all the themes (Jason's list), but I could spot several themes right away and the way they all come back in the final act is very rewarding. Always thought all those things in the previous score's prologue will re-appear somehow, and, boy, was I right. And it's a great joy to hear the Woodland theme again. It's a slightly different Elf music, having things in common with Lothlorien, but representing a slightly more martial and dangerous group of characters. What's surprsing is that this score doesn't get an emotional resolution like the other four - it just kind of stops in a cliffhanger sense, which on disc might seem a bit disappointing, but might work in the film. In short, a worthy expansion of Middle Earth. Perhaps even darker than The Two Towers, but well worth investigating.

Not sure if it the best score of 2013, but certainly up there.

I also listened to An Unexpected Journey as well and that was a great album too. In terms of mood, a polar opposite of Desolation, though.

Karol

[gkgyver 1,646]

There will always be some music dropped. And, most of the time, for the better. Films don't need that much music, really. We're geting attached to these albums too much, if I'm to be honest. They are meant to tell the same story on a purely musical level, which they do very well. Having said that, I'll find out tonight. Karol

For every one of the Rings movies some music was dropped, but it was dropped with more sense. The dropping of some music in DoS serves no purpose, it's just irritating. Like Legolas' entrance was silent, that was extremely odd.

If the score is meant to tell the story, leave it in the fucking film.

[Incanus 5,723]

What's surprsing is that this score doesn't get an emotional resolution like the other four - it just kind of stops in a cliffhanger sense, which on disc might seem a bit disappointing, but might work in the film. In short, a worthy expansion of Middle Earth. Perhaps even darker than The Two Towers, but well worth investigating.

Karol

Well the film ends in a big cliffhanger too so the music obviously follows suit. In a sense it is a rising arc that reaches a crescendo and leaves you rather breathless but that is what it is supposed to do. There is no A Good Omen kind of denouement unless you count Beyond the Forest as such. I am sure TABA will be resolution enough.

[Barnald 365]

Count me in the more satisfied with the use of music in this one than AUJ camp.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Welcome to the camp of sanity! If you look over the cliff you can see the camp of the disgruntled.

[Damien F 1,742]

I've just seen it. I'm only listened to the full album twice (but The Forest River about 30 times ) so I can't give a detailed comparison between the album and the film but I didn't notice anything major missing from the album like AUJ. The Forest River is edited entirely differently in the film so the OST version feels like a concert version.

I do think the score works very well in the movie, and seeing it helped me appreciate some of the minor themes. There were numerous occasions where a rendition of Bilbo's theme or the company's theme would have fitted perfectly so I'm still baffled why those two priminant themes from the first movie were more or less abandoned.

The heroic version of Gandalf's theme on strings that was ommited from the OST was indeed very nice.

As mentioned by other, there is loads of great cues on the OST that didn't make it into the film, but I'd rather that than vice versa

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good luck, Alvar!

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

The great Doug is ever-watchful.

[Glóin the Dark 1,229]

I've never had a great deal of affection for the "The Shire" theme but, I must say, its appearance in the "Wilderland" clip is awesome.

Isn't it in the first track? "The Quest for Erebor"?

The MM theme never appeared in the first minute of any AUJ tracks except the song though, did it?

I meant the fragment of Shiryness that appears in a more heroic-sounding form at around 1:31-1:42 in the SoundCloud preview.

What makes you say it sounds like the Shire? It does sound good though.

The melodic shape is essentially that of the final phrase of a full "Shire" rendition. Imagine the lyrics "We will walk in bitter rain" from "In Dreams" accompanying it.

Could be a mere coincidence, of course.

Not a coincidence after all, then. I really liked the way this was used.

[gkgyver 1,646]

It's not Shire related, it's the Arkenstone theme. Thorin mentions the Arkenstone at that moment in the prologue.

[Glóin the Dark 1,229]

Perhaps the figure has Arkenstone connotations (and I realise that the regular Arkenstone motif occurs just a few seconds earlier in the track), but if there was no deliberate evocation of the Shire melody on Shore's part then I'd say it's a real stroke of luck that one materialised there, beginning just as Gandalf says "You're going to need a burglar", and reaching its apex at the precise moment the picture cuts to Bilbo! (I hope that's not too spoilery for this thread...)

I'm pretty sure I have an inclination to hear references where none were intended (like seeing faces in clouds and so on) but, in this instance, I'm going to bet on it being deliberate unless Howard Shore posts to the contrary.

(Or maybe if Doug Adams does.)

[Kühni 485]

.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Moron!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It was interesting that Pope got his conductor credit, along with the music editor, early on in the credits, before the usual music department section at the end. Don't think I've seen that before.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm sure Pope's agent negotiated that.

You dont get a talent like him on board without giving him special credit.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,723]

Sorry BB for setting your expectations so high with our enthusiastic blabbing about the music here.

But it is true. It is an audibly different and moodier score than the sunny AUJ. It has some of the most extrovert writing Shore has done that sounds a tad closer to more traditional Hollywood blockbuster stuff but it also features some of his most atmospheric themes in the whole trilogy.

[Barnald 365]

Now, I need someone an apology. And that person is Neil Finn. Because as bad as his song is, compared to Sheeran's screeches, Song Of The Lonely Mountain is a masterpiece. What is this pyromaniac's song doing on my album? When I was listening to it, I wondered if I didn't buy a bootleg version of the DOS score, on which someone would have included his demo song from when he was a kid. Yes, because that's the biggest problem with the song: Sheeran has a kid's voice, and that doesn't work at all. I take it that the song is suppose to represent the Dwarves' feeling at the end of the film, etc. And you take that voice to represent them? No, no, no, no, no. And the whole melody feels even more remote from Shore's score than Finn's song did (since at least, it included the Plan 9's melody).

And you know what the worst part is? If PJ and co had decided to stick to their original plan (that is to say, not have an end credits song for that one), Beyond The Forest wouldn't have been 5 minutes long, but 10 minutes long... Great.

I listened to Song Of The Lonely Mountain twice. Once was already too much for I See Fire. Let that song burn.

Neil Finn vindicated! I just hope he reads these boards...

Honestly, I think you get a better appreciation for the score when you see the film. I wasn't feeling the first couple of tracks at first, but they work brilliantly in the film. Sure there's some stuff missing but on the whole it's given me an even better appreciation of the score, which is to be expected.

[Incanus 5,723]

Now, I need someone an apology. And that person is Neil Finn. Because as bad as his song is, compared to Sheeran's screeches, Song Of The Lonely Mountain is a masterpiece. What is this pyromaniac's song doing on my album? When I was listening to it, I wondered if I didn't buy a bootleg version of the DOS score, on which someone would have included his demo song from when he was a kid. Yes, because that's the biggest problem with the song: Sheeran has a kid's voice, and that doesn't work at all. I take it that the song is suppose to represent the Dwarves' feeling at the end of the film, etc. And you take that voice to represent them? No, no, no, no, no. And the whole melody feels even more remote from Shore's score than Finn's song did (since at least, it included the Plan 9's melody).

And you know what the worst part is? If PJ and co had decided to stick to their original plan (that is to say, not have an end credits song for that one), Beyond The Forest wouldn't have been 5 minutes long, but 10 minutes long... Great.

I listened to Song Of The Lonely Mountain twice. Once was already too much for I See Fire. Let that song burn.

Neil Finn vindicated! I just hope he reads these boards...

Honestly, I think you get a better appreciation for the score when you see the film. I wasn't feeling the first couple of tracks at first, but they work brilliantly in the film. Sure there's some stuff missing but on the whole it's given me an even better appreciation of the score, which is to be expected.

Finn's song just needed a worse song for comparison.

[gkgyver 1,646]

Boal, seriously, you only spotted the Tauriel and Laketown themes? Are you joking? You didn't hear Mirkwood, the Woodland Realm, Bard, the House of Durin themes?

I name you BloodBoal The Deaf.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,723]

The Woodland Realm wasn't a new theme. And yes, I did spot the Mirkwood theme. Forgot to mention that one.

Didn't notice Bard's theme and the House Of Durin theme (Does the House Of Durin theme have some heroic variations in the last tracks? If so, I may have heard it, after all).

Yeah there are House of Durin variations in the last tracks. A wonderful development of the Erebor/Thorin thematic family I thought. Bard's theme is featured in Protector of the Common Folk and the Bard A Man of Lake-town quite extensively.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Many of the new themes dont stand out on a first listen.

I disagree with Alvar about the orchestrations feeling different though.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The opening of #HowardShore's first #Hobbit score combines the melodic shape of the House of Durin theme (as heard in #DOS) ... (https://twitter.com/DougAdamsMusic/status/411611706201079809)

... with the #4-5 harmonic resolution of the History of the Ring theme (as heard in #LOTR).

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/12/13/howard-shore-hobbit

Looking forwards to the production diary trio.

The opening of #HowardShore's first #Hobbit score combines the melodic shape of the House of Durin theme (as heard in #DOS) ... (https://twitter.com/DougAdamsMusic/status/411611706201079809)

... with the #4-5 harmonic resolution of the History of the Ring theme (as heard in #LOTR).

http://hereandnow.wbur.org/2013/12/13/howard-shore-hobbit

Looking forwards to the production diary too.

Quoting yourself?

[Barnald 365]

I have to think now that Jackson was so messed up scrambling to finish the first film that he took his eye off the score big time. For example, why use the spider motif here and not use it in AUJ? The inconsistency is as frustrating as it is maddening. And he didn't seem to reject any of the new themes here, in contrast to the Bilbo and Radagast themes. I suppose we'll never know.

Actually, the only real puzzle now is the absence of the Company theme. But I'm wondering if they might sing that other version of the song as found in the book when inside Erebor, and that might lead to its return, particularly when they break out of Erebor during the battle. I'd really love to hear it one last time then. It would be a shame if we never heard it again.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Barnald 365]

Not just that, but more of it appears in the film and it didn't seem - to me at least - anywhere near as butchered. Many bits I was looking forward to on the soundtrack were present and correct. I know some people will have different thoughts, especially with the use of silence in parts, but it felt a lot more coherent on the whole.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

For example, why use the spider motif here and not use it in AUJ? The inconsistency is as frustrating as it is maddening.

Really? Can't you sleep over it? Do you know off your right leg out of frustration?

God extremist fanboyism really sucks the life out of these kinda conversations.

[Barnald 365]

For example, why use the spider motif here and not use it in AUJ? The inconsistency is as frustrating as it is maddening.

Really? Can't you sleep over it? Do you know off your right leg out of frustration?

God extremist fanboyism really sucks the life out of these kinda conversations.

'Know off'? Do you not mean gnaw?

And why are you picking on me considering all the miserable bastards around here? I'm one of the few who love both films!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I apologize for the spelling mistake.

It just seems like an over the top thing to say. A motif didnt get used and it's tearing me apart!

[Barnald 365]

I said it was frustrating, but that seems to be the word of the day around here of late. If we can't emote on here then where else can we do it? Of course it's an exaggeration, I'm not really going to go crazy over it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm relieved to hear it.

Kinda guessing here, but unless PJ tells him to, I doubt Shore will be using the company theme in the next film. Shore didnt write it, and he has several themes associated with Dwarves now, some of them also not use in DoS.

[Barnald 365]

It surprises me though that PJ didn't tell him to use the Company theme, as you'd think from its prominence in the first film that he loved it. We all supposed that that was PJ's doing rather than Shore's.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Perhaps we were wrong.

To be honest I think DOS tried to address lots of the issues with AUJ, the change to a dry sound, the lack of many prominent new themes, the overuse of the MM theme.

I'm sure you are reading too much into it. TTT also had less prominent new themes then FOTR had. Shore didnt have to coem up with a whole host of new themes because he introduced them in the first film. Only the new characters/locations needed new thematic material.

[Jilal 569]

It surprises me though that PJ didn't tell him to use the Company theme, as you'd think from its prominence in the first film that he loved it. We all supposed that that was PJ's doing rather than Shore's.

It's absence doesn't necessarily mean PJ doesn't/didn't love it. Perhaps he felt it was not appropriate for this film's tone.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Shore didnt really vary the theme much throughout AUJ I thought.

But wait, first PJ got blamed for having some other people raher then shore write the main theme, now Pj is getting blamed for not having Shore use that theme?

Sigh.

[Incanus 5,723]

Shore didnt really vary the theme much throughout AUJ I thought.

But wait, first PJ got blamed for having some other people raher then shore write the main theme, now Pj is getting blamed for not having Shore use that theme?

Sigh.

The poor bugger can't win. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I loved it's use in AUJ but there's no heroic moment early on in DOS to use it and by the time they reach Erebor it makes sense that they use other Dwarf themes. At the end of AUJ they cross the MM and can finally see their goal: The Lonely Mountain. The quest has moved into a new stage. It's no longer a longing for home, now it's actually obtainable.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,723]

Shore's apologist!

Messenger!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I'm forced to agree with Bilbo Skywalker.

I wonder though. Had The Comapmny Theme never been written by Plan 9, would Shore have written another theme?

He had several themes associated with the Dwarrow already.

[Incanus 5,723]

I'm forced to agree with Bilbo Skywalker.

I wonder though. Had The Comapmny Theme never been written by Plan 9, would Shore have written another theme?

He had several themes associated with the Dwarrow already.

Indeed. He has the new themes and he also quotes the older dwarven material from Moria in several places as well although it might not be considered hummable thematic material as such.

[Bilbo 3,709]

I don't think so no, i think he had enough material for the Dwarves already. Either PJ really liked the Company theme and decided to use it in the score or he agreed with Shore early on that it should be used. Despite not being written by Shore it makes sense that it's used in AUJ. It's like a mantra for the Dwarves. The song encapsulates their quest (also making you wonder do they want their gold or their home more?), it drives them and inspires Bilbo. I just think it becomes redundant by the ending of AUJ. It no longer serves it's purpose.