Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[ZenLogic101 4]

Does anyone have or uploaded the full "The Forest River - 7:06" cue?

[Smaug The Iron 562]

 

[Chen G. 4,621]

HOOK IT IN MY VEINS!

[Barnald 402]

Noticed this response to TORN's tweet about tonight's live commentary:

 

 

 

I'm intrigued. Any ideas?

[Jay 39,429]

James Sizemore was an orchestrator on DOS and BOFA, though I don't know what secret that tweet is referring to; He's credited.

 

Maybe it's referring to his work on AUJ, conforming Shore music to the final edit for the last round of cues conducted by Robert Ziegler?

[SUH 65]

I assume he is referring specifically to Desolation Of Smaug.

 

Unless he is referencing to some kind of musical joke they snuck into the scores, I would guess he's implying that Sizemore did more work on the score than credit's let on. We could ask the twitter user what he meant, he seems like he wants to talk about it!

 

Interestingly if you look at James Sizemore's website, he's credits himself as 'Orchestration and arranging' on DOS and BOTFA. Not sure what that means, but I don't think it's worth reading too much into it.

 

https://jamessizemore.com/project/259/

 

He also credits himself as 'Additional music by' and 'Score produced and arranged by' on Spotlight - I wasn't aware Shore sometimes deferred cues to members of his team, something I associate primarily with Zimmer and co. But I certainly wouldn't blame Shore for moving on from his one man band LOTR days; scoring films is a gargantuan task. And it's wonderful to still be getting new music from him, while he hopefully isn't overburdening himself with the workload (especially with modern film editing making the process oftentimes unnecessarily cumbersome).

 

 

Huge thanks to Doug, Jim, Cliff and Justin for organising and recording these commentaries. I never thought we'd get something as wonderful as this, it's such a treat for us fans of these scores!

[KK 3,308]

6 minutes ago, SUH said:

He also credits himself as 'Additional music by' and 'Score produced and arranged by' on Spotlight - I wasn't aware Shore sometimes deferred cues to members of his team, something I associate primarily with Zimmer and co.

 

This is not just a Zimmer thing. This is something most major composers do in Hollywood, primarily on big films. 

[Kühni 484]

6 minutes ago, KK said:

 

This is not just a Zimmer thing. This is something most major composers do in Hollywood, primarily on big films. 

 

"Oh yes, I knew your father well. Here, here's a scene with another father. I forgot to do the harp part, come on, give it a try!"

[Chen G. 4,621]

Watched this in real time (it’s dawn now in Israel).

 

Sublime.

[Drew 593]

Confirmed: There was no ghostwriting by the orchestrators.

11 hours ago, Barnald said:

Noticed this response to TORN's tweet about tonight's live commentary:

 

 

 

I'm intrigued. Any ideas?

 

This didn't age well haha.

[Holko 10,231]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

Confirmed: There was no ghostwriting by the orchestrators.

I guess it somewhat depends on exactly how one views Pope's podium changes we see in the Appendices

[Drew 593]

On 01/09/2019 at 5:11 PM, ZenLogic101 said:

Does anyone have or uploaded the full "The Forest River - 7:06" cue?

 

I have the same question. Has someone edited together a full version yet?

[gkgyver 1,647]

On 7/29/2020 at 6:46 AM, Holko said:

I guess it somewhat depends on exactly how one views Pope's podium changes we see in the Appendices

 

The one where he dictates high piccolo rips is soul crushing. How did he think that would work in the slightest? 

[bollemanneke 3,593]

Did the commentary reveal why DOS and BOTFA did not re-use the best theme of them all, Misty Mountains? Who do I have to blame?

[mstrox 6,915]

Only yourself!

[Evanus 344]

Doug addressed it many times during AUJ.

[KK 3,308]

Tried watching with this with the film and found the film practically unwatchable and shortly gave up. But I rediscovered some wonderful passages in the music. I think I'll revisit these scores soon.

 

Great conversation though. Thanks Doug and Jim!

[Monoverantus 531]

16 hours ago, KK said:

Tried watching with this with the film and found the film practically unwatchable and shortly gave up.

It helped a lot to just listen to them talk until they referred to somehting cue-specific, then jumping to that timestamp in the movie.

[Arpy 4,159]

On 8/13/2020 at 12:26 AM, bollemanneke said:

Did the commentary reveal why DOS and BOTFA did not re-use the best theme of them all, Misty Mountains? Who do I have to blame?

I was glad that Shore wasn't chained to a theme he never wrote, and one that was for the mountains. That being said, it might've made for a nice reprisal in BotFA.

[Chen G. 4,621]

Whether or not Shore wrote the theme is irrelevant to me: it’s a bloody cool tune. To say it refers to the Misty Mountains just because they’re mentioned in one of the verses is missing the point. It’s clearly for the company, and it should have been maintained.

[gkgyver 1,647]

The pensive Shire theme developed into the Hobbit's Understanding theme, the History of the Ring theme developed into the Evil/Ring hybrid, Evenstar theme developed into Twilight and Shadow theme, the Silver Trumpet theme developed into Gondor Reborn, and Misty Mountains developed into House Of Durin theme. 

There's no difference. 

Stop thinking of Shore's Middle Earth scores as standard film scores with standard "obligatory main theme" approach. 

[Chen G. 4,621]

Yeah, but you don't stop having the Shire's theme once A Hobbit's Understanding appears.

 

I love these scores, mind you. But if the Misty Mountains was lightly sprinkled through the later two scores, it would have been even better.

[gkgyver 1,647]

Well no, that would have made no sense. It represents the dwarves' journey to the mountain. Not even halfway through DoS, that's over. There's no place in the story for it either. 

 

I just listened to Battle For The Mountain. What a brilliant piece of music this is, especially the first 3 minutes.

The desperate and heroic House Of Durin theme in the buildup, then the full Dain theme with the chilling trumpet counterpoint. 

The Necromancer descending thirds in full brass. Then it's not really heard again because Sauron's gone, then decades later, it creeps back in through the backdoor in The Black Rider. 

Then at 2:30 the Return Of The King Battlefield Heroics theme with choir. 

[Kühni 484]

On 8/13/2020 at 6:58 PM, Monoverantus said:

It helped a lot to just listen to them talk until they referred to somehting cue-specific, then jumping to that timestamp in the movie.

Unrelated: I always hate it when Tengwar trips me up because SOMEONE had to put the vowel sign on the NEXT consonant... 

 

[Monoverantus 531]

11 hours ago, Kühni said:

Unrelated: I always hate it when Tengwar trips me up because SOMEONE had to put the vowel sign on the NEXT consonant... 

 

Sorry, I'm using the Swedish mode X D

[Holko 10,231]

On 8/14/2020 at 11:47 AM, Arpy said:

one that was for the mountains

Uhh the lyrics say over the Misty Mountains, refer to the Lonely Mountain the rest of the time, and it was used as a general theme for the company/quest.

[Arpy 4,159]

Technically. I'm just a Shore purist.

[gkgyver 1,647]

On 8/16/2020 at 8:50 AM, Holko said:

Uhh the lyrics say over the Misty Mountains, refer to the Lonely Mountain the rest of the time, and it was used as a general theme for the company/quest.

 

The lyrics are by Tolkien, and don't take into consideration a film score some 80 years later. 

[Jay 39,429]

Quote

Far over the Misty Mountains cold
To dungeons deep and caverns old
We must await, ere break of day,
To find our long forgotten gold.

The pines were roaring on the height,
The winds were moaning in the night.
The fire was red, it flaming spread;
The trees like torches blazed with light.

The wind was on the withered heath,
But in the forest stirred no leaf:
There shadows lay be night or day,
And dark things silent crept beneath.

 

The wind went on from West to East;
All movement in the forest ceased,
But shrill and harsh across the marsh
Its whistling voices were released.

Farewell we call to hearth and hall!
Though wind may blow and rain may fall,
We must await ere break of day
Far over wood and mountain tall.

 

This is not a song ABOUT the Misty Mountains at all

[Chen G. 4,621]

And neither is the theme or the way its used.

 

Its clearly for the company, and its one hell of a tune!

 

[Kühni 484]

The Misty Mountains (but only until you're over them, actually)...

[Doo_liss 6,423]

Once The Lonely Mountain is back in the picture though, is when it ceases use, it's  now a visible  goal, not a distant memory.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

Wanna hear something weird?

 

(A.i. separated)

 

 

Percussion only:

 

 

 

[Chen G. 4,621]

What are we looking at here?

[Jay 39,429]

Seems like he used AI separation software to make a file that has the string parts only from Flies and Spiders

[Doo_liss 6,423]

9 minutes ago, Jay said:

Seems like he used AI separation software to make a file that has the string parts only from Flies and Spiders

Yep.

 

Thanks guys for the notification btw, reminded me hadn't yet put up the inverse/other stem lol.

[Bilbo 3,828]

I’ve always found it interesting that this is the only one of the 6 films without an end credits song. Weird. 

[Chen G. 4,621]

Seven! Rohirrim is also having an end-credits song!

[Bilbo 3,828]

2 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Seven! Rohirrim is also having an end-credits song!

Even weirder that Smaug was skipped so! 

[Chen G. 4,621]

And don't forget Fellowship of the Ring had two!

 

And we have alternate end-credit songs for both Return of the King and Battle of the Five Armies.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

But they didn't skip it....

 

 

 

 

 

Shore wrote Beyond the Forest

[Bilbo 3,828]

44 minutes ago, Doo_liss said:

But they didn't skip it....

 

 

 

 

 

Shore wrote Beyond the Forest

Beyond the Forest is great! I love it. One of my favourite pieces of Middle-earth music but it isn’t a song in the vein of May it Be or Into the West. 

[Doo_liss 6,423]

24 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Beyond the Forest is great! I love it. One of my favourite pieces of Middle-earth music but it isn’t a song in the vein of May it Be or Into the West. 

I will admit it was pretty daring for them to go for 4:55 of silence for the first part of the credits. I guess they really wanted to let the ending really sink in.

[Edmilson 8,920]

"What have we done?"

 

BOOM. 4 minutes of silence contemplating the epic cliffhanger we just saw.

 

Spoiler

Ed Sheeran does have a few good songs though, The Hobbit isn't one of them but still I like the guy.

Anyway, about Hobbit end credits, the Misty Mountains variation for strings that begins the end credits of AUJ before the song has been one of my holy grails since circa. 2013.

[Bilbo 3,828]

12 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Ed Sheeran does have a few good songs though

No he doesn’t. He’s the musical equivalent of syphalis   

[Doo_liss 6,423]

14 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

"What have we done?"

 

BOOM. 4 minutes of silence contemplating the epic cliffhanger we just saw.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Ed Sheeran does have a few good songs though, The Hobbit isn't one of them but still I like the guy.

Anyway, about Hobbit end credits, the Misty Mountains variation for strings that begins the end credits of AUJ before the song has been one of my holy grails since circa. 2013.

I mean, it's clean on the BD so...

[Edmilson 8,920]

8 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

No he doesn’t. He’s the musical equivalent of syphalis   

Shape of You is "fine, I guess", but I really like Photograph and All of the Stars. Perfect is too melodramatic, but the "stripped down to voice and guitar" duet with Beyoncé is pretty good. Thinking Out Loud is meh.

 

And... I think that's it? Haven't explored his songs in depth. 

 

[Doo_liss 6,423]

2 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Haven't explored his songs in depth. 

 

Bilbo: don't.

 

[Edmilson 8,920]

 

He doesn't produce the kind of music that JWFan would like though.

[Doo_liss 6,423]

3 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

He doesn't produce the kind of music that JWFan would like though.

So good music?