Howard Shore's The Desolation Of Smaug (Hobbit Part 2)

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Well, then you clearly need to rewatch The Two Towers.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Faleel 5,371]

I say its less them "revealing" it, as it just being revealed, if you get what I am saying.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Faleel 5,371]

I don't really mind the Amon Sul scene. it was a watchtower after all.

And I will take Gandalf making the room grow dark, over the baloney in the book about bad luck because of their numbers.

[Barnald 365]

Nothing wrong with Legolas' 'goblin mutant' line. That one actually did make me laugh.

[gkgyver 1,646]

The good thing about Legolas' barrel riding is Shore's ballet-like version of the Woodland Realm theme.

It's a brilliant moment, highlight of The Forest River, and the best variation of the theme in the film.

[Faleel 5,371]

Atleast its not like this!

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

PJ really cranked that sequence so full of everything it becomes a bit too over the top for me. Not intolerable but somewhat ridiculous.

I had the opposite problem with that scene. I found it much more pedestrian than I was expecting on the basis of the reviews and, more particularly, the soundtrack. The events depicted are certainly over the top, but the way they're filmed doesn't create half as much excitement as The Forest River track on its own...

[KK 3,307]

I actually had the same reaction as you Gloin.

I knew it would be over-the-top, but based on all the reviews, I was expecting something ridiculous, but thrilling and incredibly fun and the music only helped increase the anticipation.

But it turned out to be very underwhelming, largely due to some major pace issues. It failed to maintain its energy, and the butchered music didn't help either. Pedestrian is a rather apt word to describe it.

[Incanus 5,722]

Again I find it to be a tone issue. The Hobbit lives in the shadow of the LotR and inhabits the same world and as it has been listed there are countless references to the earlier trilogy. To me the problem arises from the way PJ tries so hard to maintain the LotRness of the films but then he goes to the other end of the spectrum with absolutely ridiculous kiddie adventure movie feel. This dichotomy doesn't work. First we have incredibly moody and dark and strange opening to DoS and hey presto then a rip-roaring amusement park ride escape from the Woodland Realm in barrels. It should be somehow dangerous and exciting and we should be worried for our heroes but at least I was laughing my head off during the whole sequence and shaking my head all the time. Kili's wounding is thrown in there almost as an afterthought to make the whole escape somehow more costly to the company but at least in my eyes felt forced and didn't make me any more attached to the Dwarves than before (not to mention have Tauriel leave the Woodland Realm to rescue Kili). And this strange shift of style is repeated a number of times throughout the film, from deadly serious "world is at stake" feel to the "hey, dong merry-dol, ring-a-dong-a-dillo" silliness. Same goes for AUJ. And all that is said in defense is that "it is a lighter movie tone-wise since it was adapted from a children's book". You can't have it both ways in my opinion. Either try to make it serious with subtler humour or make it an all out rollercoaster with whimsy abound. As it is the trilogy thusfar has been awkwardly trying to do both.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Warren Peace 3]

I wonder if Shore would have approached The Forest River differently had it remained the climax of the first film, as originally intended. Does the same scene get the same score no matter what? If that scene is "the big finale" as opposed to "the halfway point", does that necessitate a larger sound? Would the Misty Mountains theme make an appearance there in a two film Hobbit series (I say yes)? It would be interesting to hear Shore's thoughts.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

You see I thought that about The High Fells as well. It sounds far too dramatic for what we see in the film. Short of their being deleted footage (which I hope is the case), I suppose another possibility is that it was for a different, more action-y cut of the scene which we'll never see. But then, it really isn't like current PJ to go for the more subtle option.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I think the Azog/Sauron conversation would have been much more effective if that rather chilling music had been left in.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

I can't speak for the Necromancer theme, but the Evil of the Ring/Sauron motif has been frequently dialled out prior to Sauron's big reveal to Gandalf. I think it might have played during The White Council, but I'm struggling to remember anywhere else where it was left in - Radagast at Dol Guldur, the Orc graffiti bit, the Azog/Necromancer conversation. I suppose it's understandable, since Jackson probably feels that people will instanteously make the connection (and before you protest, there are some non-book readers who didn't know that the Necromancer was Sauron).

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Incanus 5,722]

This was a valid reason to omit his theme (actually, I was very surprised to see that Shore was not subtle with it at all). That's why I never had any major issue with it not being included (even though I maintain the Azog/Necromancer scene would have been better with music).

However, it always seemed pretty obvious to me that the Necromancer = Sauron before it was revealed, even in AUJ. I mean, there's the Nazgul ghost, the White Council talking about Sauron, the graffiti at the edge of Mirkwood, etc... It's not very subtle.

Yes PJ and subtle don't mix. So I don't think the music would have tipped anyone more than the movie already does in the visuals and plot points. Unless they trust the general audience to remember the Evil of the Ring theme so vividly they go "Oh I get it! That Necromancer dude must be Sauron in disguise!" with audible gasp.

[Jay 37,389]

Bloodboal I just read your long post about the Special Edition soundtrack.

Your big problem is you keep saying "this was added to the SE", "That was added", etc. You're thinking completely backwards on it. The Special Edition was assembled first and is closer to the full recorded cues. THEN they decided what to snip out for the Standard version.

With AUJ it seems like both versions present different interpretations of a score presentation, using different versions of the same pieces in some spots, and less edits overall. But this is just a straight up situation where the SE version is the definitive presentation, and the Standard version is just the same thing with a bunch of bits snipped out.

I am sure the more you listen to the SE version, the less need you'll ever have to listen to the Standard again. in fact I'm not sure why you even bothered to buy it....

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,389]

The full ending of The Hunters is what Shore intended to be used in the film though. PJ just decided to dial it out and it's coincidentally missing on the Standard OST.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[Jay 37,389]

What are your thoughts on what I said about the additional High Fells material? Do you think it could have been for a flashback, or do you believe it's meant for the final edit of the scene as seen in the film (since I'm sure you already checked and it probably syncs in terms of length)?

AFAIK there is only one version of the scene, and there was never any flashbacks in there. They just tightened up the editing between it's original AUJ configuration and it's DOS one (doing a side by side comparison is actually really interesting), and added that extra Gandalf/Radagast discussion outside in pickups.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,389]

Wrong, the entire scene is edited radically. From the very first shot of Gandalf outside all the way until he enters the second area with Radagast was cut down from ~4 minutes to ~3 minutes in rather clever ways. it's a good education in editing and what is necessary to show and what you can cut.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,389]

Well, the portion on the OST from 2:10-3:03 is an Insert that replaces the original version of the cue if that helps

[Barnald 365]

Doug's been tweeting some interesting things:

Doug Adams ‏@DougAdamsMusic 2 hrs

In self-imposed exile from message boards currently, so I'll post here: There are currently no #Hobbit Complete Recordings in production. …However, that doesn't mean they'll never happen. The #LOTR CRs weren't discussed until well after the last picture. …Can't imagine #Hobbit CRs would even be considered until after film three/score three. Long ways to go yet! Since the initial Hobbit albums have been lengthier, it's possible that CRs could take a diff form this time. But that's purely speculation.

Finally: Yes, there was much more to the #HowardShore conversation...I'm told you'll see more of it eventually, but you never know how these things will progress. So, we'll all have to wait and see …

Topic #2: Yes, there are some passages on the #Smaug album that should make more sense once you see the Extended Ed later this year. …But that's all I'll say about that!

'Passages'? Seems to confirm it's more than just the bit in 'The House of Beorn'.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

Not sure if Doug's at liberty to say about additional recording sessions for the EE. If they are to be done, it will surely be next month as I reckoned before. I guess we should keep an eye out for anything to do with Conrad Pope, the NZSO, London Voices and so forth. I'm expecting at least 25 minutes to be added so surely they'll have to do something.

Passages'? Seems to confirm it's more than just the bit in 'The House of Beorn'.

Honestly, I think you're overtinterpreting this. He probably just said "passages" without remembering that The House Of Beorn is the only bit that actually contains music for a deleted scene.

I don't see what other bit of music on the OST could actually be for a deleted scene. I think LeBlanc checked everything, and it alls fits with the final film (and even without checking, it seems relatively obvious that everything on the OST fits the final film).

The only two others bits I think might be for deleted scenes/deleted shots are the Bard's theme statement at the beginning of Bard, A Man Of Laketown and The High Fells. That's it.

You're probably right. And I suppose the less EE music on the existing soundtrack the better, since it gives me some encouragement we'll get to hear a good deal of new stuff in the EE.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

If Thrain goes into Moria, I was hoping we might hear glimpses of Moria, Dark Places of the World, and Dwarrowdelf, location and time permitting of course. If we get a glimpse/hint of the Balrog I'd appreciate some Maori grunts.

Aside from what you've listed BB, I'm interested to see how Shore will score the proposed sequence where they're exploring the ruins of Dale. Will he introduce snippets of a Dale theme here to be expanded in TABA? Or might we get some more of Girion's theme? Or none of these things?

And - I know, I know - I've love to hear the Company theme snuck in there somewhere. Anywhere.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Barnald 365]

Oh, and the Company's theme is dead! Deal with it! It will only return for the Company's charge during BOFA, not before that!

I would gladly take this scenario.

[SafeUnderHill 205]

[KK 3,307]

Smaug's Theme

[gkgyver 1,646]

Where is Gandalf's theme inverted there?

[Jay 37,389]

Is the backwards Smaug's Theme the bit that plays in between the "opening logos" music and the "Hobbit title card" music?

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Jay 37,389]

Is the backwards Smaug's Theme the bit that plays in between the "opening logos" music and the "Hobbit title card" music?

Yep.

Great! I will have to note that in my theme list (which is in need of several other updates as well, I know)

[Incanus 5,722]

Time stamps for Smaug's Theme in The Quest for Erebor opening please?