Faleel 5,360 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Don't tempt me. (actually.....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Adapt The Silmarillion, hire me, and you will have your answer.Can't we just say "write some music, dammit!" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 I only respond to coercion from one person, and it's none of the denizens of this place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Y'know I really wonder what First Age music would sound like compared to Second Age (from what we know based on the Gonder theme statement in the alternate prologue, compressed is the key) and Third Age music...I really want The Silmarillion, with Music Composed by Howard Shore...The SilmarillionMusic Composed by Conrad PopeOrchestrated and Conducted by Howard Shore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Hey, atleast it will be Orchestrated correctly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Bazinga. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well, if I ever get screenwriting skills, I have a Logo and a title ready Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Peace 3 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 You know, there's no reason why Shore's music has to necessarily begin and end with films. There are hours of independent Middle-Earth recordings out there existing perfectly well on their own. Nobody listens to them, but still, imagine a set of new Shore CDs that adapt The Silmarillion and other Tolkien odds and ends. No reason to wait for the film rights to be sorted out. He could even "score" Tom Bombadil and scouring of the Shire for the hell of it.Unless Christopher is going to be that way and refuse any Jackson collaborator out of spite. Come on man, be cool! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 16, 2014 Author Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well, a Silmarillion symphony would be awesome.Howard Shore doing mammoth works for all three of Tolkien's big outings, that would be immortal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 Well I'm hoping for an Ainulindalë film, for starters. It will be three hours long with a Ligeti-style soundtrack and purely abstract images. But nothing like that bit in 2001.Ainulindalë, or Iluvatar and beyond the Infinite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 16, 2014 Share Posted January 16, 2014 That's actually precisely how I've envisioned it. Micropolyphony is the only viable route for the music of the Ainur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Settled, then! You're doing the music. Who'll do the pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Kubrick. I refuse to work with anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 You won't settle for Jackson?By the way, any news on sheet music? It was available almost instantly for AUJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Kubrick: I'm going to insist on his participation right after he gets that Napoleon business sorted.Speaking of micropolyphony, I once read an article (and this must have been more than a decade ago) in which the author considered the passage in The Lord of the Rings where Legolas is able to identify the exact number of riders of Rohan from a great distance. By estimating the area occupied by the riders and their distance from the Three Hunters, he or she came up with an approximation to the resolution of Legolas's vision (concluding that it was so fine that he would be able to discern the apparent motion of the stars, due to the Earth's rotation, in real time, as well as the motion of Mars relative to them). I think, in that case, that the Elves' discernment of distinctions between notes would be a lot sharper than humans', and that they would have an appreciation of harmonies arising from frequency ratios much more complex than those we are able to deal with.So, yeah...Shore missed a trick there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Curious, but does anyone know what instrument is being used at 7:28 in the DoS music production video? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 They'd love spectral music then!Re: KK - I asked Doug but didn't get a reply. Thankfully I've just found it -Zildjian Spiral Trash FX Cymbalhttp://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/86271-zildjian-spiral-trash-fx-cymbal.html/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base&gclid=CI6Dnf74g7wCFfHItAod83AARQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Sounds very elvish to me! Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Love Grisey, Murail, Haas, Scelsi etc. Dixon Hill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 They'd love spectral music then!Re: KK - I asked Doug but didn't get a reply. Thankfully I've just found it -Zildjian Spiral Trash FX Cymbalhttp://www.dolphinmusic.co.uk/product/86271-zildjian-spiral-trash-fx-cymbal.html/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=base&gclid=CI6Dnf74g7wCFfHItAod83AARQ Ooh, very cool! So its basically a crash cymbal cut in a spiral shape? Thanks!Love Grisey, Murail, Haas, Scelsi etc.I'm only familiar with the first two, and I find Murail's Gondwana fascinating. Would love to hear stuff like this live. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I haven't heard Grisey's music in years, or that of the other prominent spectralists - ever since I got out of the habit of listening to Radio 3 regularly.(When I pressed play on that Partiels video, I thought for a second or two that it was Leonard Rosenman's music for the Bakshi film. ) Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I only respond to coercion from one person, and it's none of the denizens of this place!You WILL be taught to listen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I only respond to coercion from one person, and it's none of the denizens of this place!You WILL be taught to listen!No.You won't settle for Jackson?Only after extensive interviews and psych evaluations.I'm tickled to see micropolyphony and now spectral music mentioned in relation to Middle-Earth. Glad I'm not the only one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm tickled to see micropolyphony and now spectral music mentioned in relation to Middle-Earth. Glad I'm not the only one.It's interesting though how little either has trickled into film music over the years, especially spectralism. I think Christopher Young and Elliot Goldenthal have borrowed some of the extended techniques, but not much more than that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 The Filmtracks review is up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Sorry, don't plan on vomiting today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Most of his M-E reviews are not half bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 I honestly don't understand the criticism that DoS, or the Hobbit in general, lacks an overarching theme. How could you possibly have one central theme in these multilayered films, with Shore's heavily leitmotivic approach? It's not like LotR had one definite overarching theme. And with Thorin's theme, the Erebor theme, Smaug's theme, Gandalf's theme, the Hobbit has plenty of strong themes in all three films. The themes are appropriately weighed in DoS, and are applied correctly. Why would Shore suddenly play dwarven themes in Mirkwood? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 We are going to veer into the Shire, Fellowship, Rohan and Gondor themes VS Hobbit's themes discussion again. Thanks Clemmensen!Actually his review is quite solid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It's not like LotR had one definite overarching theme.I take it you haven't heard of The History Of The Ring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It's not like LotR had one definite overarching theme.I take it you haven't heard of The History Of The Ring.Well there is that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It barely appears in FOTR (as first written!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 It barely appears in FOTR (as first written!)Well the final version does have aplenty of it. And that is all that counts Faleel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 It's not like LotR had one definite overarching theme.I take it you haven't heard of The History Of The Ring.The Ring theme isn't "the" theme for LotR. The typical mindset established over decades of film scoring, that a film usually has one center theme simply doesn't apply to LotR, or the Hobbit. The music shifts perspective constantly, and themes are applied when the story dictates it. Shore surely didn't write the History of the Ring theme and went "ok, this is going to be my main theme". The story is about the ring, and it appears often as a plot device or as subtext, so logically the Ring theme comes along with it. Shore's themes aren't used in the way most film scores treat their main themes, and I don't think you should push it into that mold. In fact, Shore's strategy of not pushing forward one centre theme is giving us scores of enormous diversity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Tracked statemnts do not count!Revised statements and EE statements do.Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe (/Parth Galen), in A Conspiracy Unmasked, in The Fighting Uruk-Hai (yes, I know, it wasn't there in the first version), in The Council Of Elrond Assembles, in The Doors Of Durin...The Prologue is revised, Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe is tracked, A Conspiracy Unmasked is tracked, Fighting Uruk-Hai is revised, Doors of Durin is EE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Smeltington 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 SW uses Luke's theme in extended statements in the main title and End title of all three films though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 It barely appears in FOTR (as first written!)Are you kidding? Even without taking into account the tracked statements, it sitll very present: many times in the prologue, in Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe (/Parth Galen), in A Conspiracy Unmasked, in The Fighting Uruk-Hai (yes, I know, it wasn't there in the first version), in The Council Of Elrond Assembles, in The Doors Of Durin...In summary, the Shire theme has a hell of a lot more statements than the Ring theme. Is that the "main theme" of the trilogy then? If it is, why is it beaten in number appearances in Two Towers by Rohan's theme?What you don't understand is that there is no "main theme" in a score that treats all three films as three acts in one story, and applies themes to its story elements. Question in return, would you mind telling me what, in your sense, the main theme of Wagner's Ring cycle would be?Just because the Ring theme appears over the title card doesn't make it the "main theme" of the trilogy. By that logic, the Shire theme would be the main theme of the Hobbit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 This bickering is pointless!Tracked statemnts do not count!Revised statements and EE statements do.Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe (/Parth Galen), in A Conspiracy Unmasked, in The Fighting Uruk-Hai (yes, I know, it wasn't there in the first version), in The Council Of Elrond Assembles, in The Doors Of Durin...The Prologue is revised, Keep It Secret, Keep It Safe is tracked, A Conspiracy Unmasked is tracked, Fighting Uruk-Hai is revised, Doors of Durin is EE.The versions found on the CRs are something I am very used to and those I consider to be the "canon" versions of this music, tracked or not. The alternates and original takes are excellent but do not have the same meaning to me as the ones I first heard in the film. It is perhaps the nostalgia of it all and having heard these versions in the film when I first saw them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 Original > tracking=axiomatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Incanus, that is a somewhat deluded way of looking at it... why listen to the same music 3 times, where 2 of those appearances are badly edited, and the other one of those appearances missing music that is actually in the film? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Original > tracking=axiomaticThats a somewhat deluded way of looking at it... why listen to the same music 3 times, where 2 of those appearances are badly edited, and the other one of those appearances missing music that is actually in the film?Indeed. I rather wish Shore had rescored the tracked statements of the History of the Ring theme in FotR but those work very well despite of this and I am as happy with the CRs as I was when I got them and was entirely oblivious to the tracking on them. I think that you have to be more of an editing/audiophile than I am to be concerned with the bad edits in this case (I can't hear them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted January 17, 2014 Author Share Posted January 17, 2014 What you don't understand is that there is no "main theme" in a score that treats all three films as three acts in one story, and applies themes to its story elements.In all honesty, I don't see why that would rule out a main theme.Can we at least agree that the Ring is the main element of the story, the element everything revolves around?Yes, of course. There are numerous thematic spin-offs.I was just trying to make the point that in thematic logic and application, the Hobbit is no different from LotR (in Shore's original intentions), and that this application rules out a central main theme by definition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 What you don't understand is that there is no "main theme" in a score that treats all three films as three acts in one story, and applies themes to its story elements.In all honesty, I don't see why that would rule out a main theme.Can we at least agree that the Ring is the main element of the story, the element everything revolves around?Yes, of course. There are numerous thematic spin-offs.I was just trying to make the point that in thematic logic and application, the Hobbit is no different from LotR (in Shore's original intentions), and that this application rules out a central main theme by definition.Pointing out actual composer assigned main theme is very difficult for these films but there are a number that become prominent and central to individual films in the series. I do not quite understand why e.g. Woodland Realm theme(s) or the House of Durin theme could not be counted among them but I guess people do not feel they chart and define this film in their entirety from start to finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Actually his review is quite solid.As usual! Give him some credit!Most of his M-E reviews are not half bad.Not half bad? They're excellent! Where else do you find such in depth reviews of these scores?Sure I may not entirely agree with all his assessments (RotK is NOT the weakest of the OT, and DOS deserves more credit than it seems to be getting) but that's irrelevant to the quality if the reviews! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 From the filmtracks review:Also gone are the original Mirkwood theme (the downbeat version)To what does this refer exactly? The bit heard in 'Radagast the Brown' and 'The White Council' that Doug confirmed is Radagast material?Let's face it the lack of Radagast's music from Shore's AUJ score in this is hardly surprising because A) it was barely present in the AUJ film and B) Radagast is barely in this, and the music probably wouldn't have been appropriate for the High Fells bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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