Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Actually his review is quite solid.As usual! Give him some credit!Most of his M-E reviews are not half bad.Not half bad? They're excellent! Where else do you find such in depth reviews of these scores?Sure I may not entirely agree with all his assessments (RotK is NOT the weakest of the OT, and DOS deserves more credit than it seems to be getting) but that's irrelevant to the quality if the reviews!I would say Christian's output varies quite a bit but on the whole I find his reviews well written although his arguments can be a bit strange at times.From the filmtracks review:Also gone are the original Mirkwood theme (the downbeat version)To what does this refer exactly? The bit heard in 'Radagast the Brown' and 'The White Council' that Doug confirmed is Radagast material?I guess so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 What you don't understand is that there is no "main theme" in a score that treats all three films as three acts in one story, and applies themes to its story elements. In all honesty, I don't see why that would rule out a main theme.Can we at least agree that the Ring is the main element of the story, the element everything revolves around? Yes, of course. There are numerous thematic spin-offs.I was just trying to make the point that in thematic logic and application, the Hobbit is no different from LotR (in Shore's original intentions), and that this application rules out a central main theme by definition.You can look at it that way, but it's not really true.A lot of it has to do with the nature of he film really.The overall focus of the LOTR trilogy is the ring. It's what is driving nearly everything in the film. And so Shore brilliantly utilizes this theme as the connective tissue of the vast array of his many leitmotives. What's the main focus of the Hobbit trilogy? You'd think it'd be Bilbo, but the film disagrees. The Hobbit films act more as a compilation of Tolkien lore and fan fiction with poor Bilbo being almost cast off to the side. DOS, reflects this attitude the most, and unfortunately translates to the music with a lack of an "overarching theme", something that bridges everything together.And you may disagree but Shore did this with each of the individual OT films. The Fellowship theme held FOTR together, because the film revolved around the fellowship. TTT Had the Rohan theme and ROTK had the Gondor theme. Each of those themes served as an independent overarching thematic identity of the different films, to help bridge this complex tale together with an overall sense of goal and purpose. Again, Shore owes this to the films, because they were all written that way.With something like DOS, PJ really fails to instill any sense of purpose. It's a hodgepodge of action scenes, and fantastical CG spectacle. And in return, Shore provides brilliant underscore for individual parts. But as a whole there is no overarching idea to bridge it all together. No ring theme, no fellowship, no Rohan or Gondor. CC brings up a good point.Of course what he fails to point out is that much of the fault lies in the film. There is no main point to it. So as it is, it's a brilliant work of thematic storytelling, but the story itself doesn't have as driving a purpose as the OT did.EDIT: Turns out BloodBoal already said everything I had to say....curses! Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Does the first glimp of the Laketown politicians theme heard in 'Bard, A Man of Laketown' feature in the film? I don't remember hearing it, and thinking back I can't think of what part it might score. Does Bard mention political matters when talking to Balin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 From the filmtracks review:Also gone are the original Mirkwood theme (the downbeat version) To what does this refer exactly? The bit heard in 'Radagast the Brown' and 'The White Council' that Doug confirmed is Radagast material?Let's face it the lack of Radagast's music from Shore's AUJ score in this is hardly surprising because A) it was barely present in the AUJ film and B) Radagast is barely in this, and the music probably wouldn't have been appropriate for the High Fells bit.Yeah, he doesn't quite mention that if PJ doesn't like it, it gets the boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Given that we'll surely see more of Radagast in TABA, including his (probable) fumbling attempts to tell the White Council what has happened, plus a seeming bunny sled escape with Gandalf, it will be interesting to see how Shore scores these sections. You'd think he'd draw on the Radagast material heard in the AUJ film, but you never know - we might have another spider theme situation where Jackson takes a liking to it second time round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 KK, thanks for basically repeating everything I said in my post above yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 LOLDamn! I didn't read anything on this page and just responded to GKs comment. But reading it now, we're talking about exactly the same things!! I guess great minds think alike eh? Now delete your post so I can look good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Now delete your post so I can look good!Oh we know BB is magnanimous but not THAT magnanimous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (I can't hear them).You did not notice the bad fadeout of Gollum's theme in A Conspiracy Unmasked? or the obvious looping in Pass of Caradhras?And its really the principal of the thing, its NOT economic to include the EXACT SAME music more thaan once at the expense of the true composition, it does not help with musical flow and feel (I found the tracked Ring theme enhanced my boredom when watching FOTR after a while.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 (I can't hear them).You did not notice the bad fadeout of Gollum's theme in A Conspiracy Unmasked? or the obvious looping in Pass of Caradhras?Call me deaf and roll me in tar and feathers but I did not. Only thing that really irritated me in CRs was the small mixing issues with the balancing of choirs and the orchestra and two instances where the mix is too quiet for soloist moments (Pass of Caradhras with the Seduction of the Ring choral rendition in FotR and solo horn for the Way to Mordor motif in My Precious in TTT). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Those last two are not really mixing issues, thats just that the CR's have a huge amount of Dynamix Range unlike most scores are today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 On 17/01/2014 at 7:40 PM, Incanus said: On 17/01/2014 at 7:28 PM, KK. said: Now delete your post so I can look good! Oh we know BB is magnanimous but not THAT magnanimous! Indeed! You're the Merciful One, KK, not I! On 17/01/2014 at 7:58 PM, Incanus said: On 17/01/2014 at 7:51 PM, Faleel said: On 17/01/2014 at 6:09 PM, Incanus said: On 17/01/2014 at 6:08 PM, Faleel said: (I can't hear them). You did not notice the bad fadeout of Gollum's theme in A Conspiracy Unmasked? or the obvious looping in Pass of Caradhras? Call me deaf and roll me in tar and feathers but I did not. That makes two of us. Frankly, they're not that noticeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I'm with Incanus on this one. I never noticed the bits you pointed Faleel, nor do I wish to. I'm perfectly content with the CR presentation of the music, with some quibbles (largely the choral mix). Sometimes, we've got to be less picky and just enjoy the music! Speaking of the mix, I think DOS has the worst choral mix of the whole saga so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 I think DOS has the worst choral mix of the whole saga so far.Sometimes, we've got to be less picky and just enjoy the music! SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Now delete your post so I can look good!Oh we know BB is magnanimous but not THAT magnanimous! In-fucking-deed! You're the Merciful One, KK, not I!I was hoping you'd return the favour! I think DOS has the worst choral mix of the whole saga so far.Sometimes, we've got to be less picky and just enjoy the music!Haha, you got me. But the faults and edits you point out don't hinder the listening experience. Had the choral mix been like it was in AUJ or the OT, it would have definitely help lift some great moments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 But the faults and edits you point out don't hinder the listening experience.When you start to listen to those scores daily (as I have) it becomes one, I don't get how you can listen to a whole cue twice and obviously tracked, and not find it distasteful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Does the first glimp of the Laketown politicians theme heard in 'Bard, A Man of Laketown' feature in the film? I don't remember hearing it, and thinking back I can't think of what part it might score. Does Bard mention political matters when talking to Balin?I am pretty sure that segment, along with the other final 70 seconds of the track, went unused in the movieBard did speak about the Master not letting anyone in, but I dont think the timing would fit if the music was put back in there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnald 365 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Does the first glimp of the Laketown politicians theme heard in 'Bard, A Man of Laketown' feature in the film? I don't remember hearing it, and thinking back I can't think of what part it might score. Does Bard mention political matters when talking to Balin?I am pretty sure that segment, along with the other final 70 seconds of the track, went unused in the movieBard did speak about the Master not letting anyone in, but I dont think the timing would fit if the music was put back in thereThanks for that. I was wondering if it might have scored a deleted scene, but people on here have said that the part in 'House of Beorn' is the only bit that seems to have scored deleted footage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 the beginning of that track is also unused actually, which I did find odd as its a rendition of the Bard theme before we ever even see Bard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Also, when a whole phrase of a theme is dialed out, and that edit is preserved on the CR, that goes too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Christ, are we still talking about this score? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Apparently, we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 And we shall continue, until December! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 And beyond! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Some of the score was used, other bits were dialed out. So what? What's the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Who said it was a big deal? Is there some legal obligation to only talk about big deals? SafeUnderHill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MedigoScan 324 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 *shrug*the thread is here, might as well cover every detail in a objective manner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Well, yes.Who said it was a big deal? Is there some legal obligation to only talk about big deals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Not in my country! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Who said it was a big deal? Is there some legal obligation to only talk about big deals?Is it way to kill time between now and TABA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Maybe. So what? What's the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 There is no big deal at the moment. But when it comes, The Messenger shall be on top of it!Besides, my own review of it is coming up soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,360 Posted January 17, 2014 Share Posted January 17, 2014 Who said it was a big deal? Is there some legal obligation to only talk about big deals?Is it way to kill time between now and TABA?Its so people now what was dialed out, so they can restore it with an editing program. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 What else is there to talk about? The endlessly fascinating Academy Awards?The trillionth speculation about Star Wars VII: Revenge of the Cash Cow?Ponies? (No offense to any person alive or dead who has, is going to have, or ever had, a pony) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 There is no big deal at the moment. But when it comes, The Messenger shall be on top of it!Besides, my own review of it is coming up soon Good, good! I am looking forward to it KK. Make us proud! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,695 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Has Jay (or anyone) done a released/unreleased spreadsheet yet? I'm not going through all 130 pages to find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 As far as I know, no. Not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 The Fellowship theme is the overarching theme of LOTR.Certainly when it comes to the general public Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Certainly when it comes to the general publicTrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Certainly when it comes to the general publicThe Shire might give it a run for its money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 How can you be so sure? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Because he checked Rotten Tomatoes to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 How can you be so sure?The Fellowship theme is used more prominanty in all three films, It's a big fanfaric theme, which are more noticable in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glóin the Dark 1,223 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Certainly it has the most fanfare-like statements of the two, but I'm not sure that it's more prominent overall. Its full statements are used quite sparingly, whereas there are lengthy sections saturated in Shire music and lots of other small references throughout. I also think that the Fellowship theme has a sort of clumsiness or awkwardness to it (one of the things that makes it so interesting), especially given that it's the main heroic theme, whereas the Shire theme has a rather straightforward and easily remembered form. That's why I don't think the issue is quite so clear cut...(For the record, I'm not a big fan of The Shire theme.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodBoal 7,538 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 I also think that the Fellowship theme has a sort of clumsiness or awkwardness to it?What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If you pressed someone with general familiarity to choose a main theme for the trilogy, I don't doubt they would choose the fellowship theme. No, it doesn't appear with the frequency of some others, no, it doesn't open each film like the history theme, but by and large it's what people probably most readily associate with the films musically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 The Shire theme feature little in TTT and ROTK, and its statements are never as pronounced as the more obviously heroic, and therefore louder Fellowship theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,646 Posted January 18, 2014 Author Share Posted January 18, 2014 The overarching theme of the Hobbit is Thorin's theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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